Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Three Finger on January 04, 2013, 05:30:00 PM
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So I am going to get some new broadheads. I will be hunting whitetail and turkey mostly. What do you think Grizzlies 2 blade 200g or VPA 200g 3 blade.
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either...i prefer 3 blade snuffers for turkey but still prefer 2 blade for deer. Why not get 6 of each and try them both...
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LOL Brock funds. But thanks I may go with the vpa they will work for both well.
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Both great heads.....but prefer 3 blade heads of everything I've ever hunted and VPA's to be the best out there!
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Those are my 2 favorite heads. Good luck on your decision.
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What Guru said X2 except I like woodsman elite made by VPA. Widow
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Thanks guys. I think I'm gonna go with the VPA's
The woodsman elites have gone up to $50 for 3. The vpa's are still $40.
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VPA ALL THE WAY
:bigsmyl:
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Originally posted by Benjy:
Those are my 2 favorite heads. Good luck on your decision.
X2 what Benjy said. Both are super tough. I can get my Grizzly's super sharp though. Give them both a try.
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Originally posted by Guru:
Both great heads.....but prefer 3 blade heads of everything I've ever hunted and VPA's to be the best out there!
Ditto That!
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Grizzlys for me
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Are there any Grizzly screw-ins available yet? TJ-how do you sharpen the grizzlies? Peace!
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Grizzlys x 2
I almost forgot - right bevel!
Keep the wind in your face!
Shoot straight, Shinken
:archer2:
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I can sharpen vpa's but I can't sharpen two blade broadheads to save my life.
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I've been very happy with 2-blade single-bevel Helix broadheads (125 + 100 grain insert). I bought a pack of 3-blade VPAs (165 grain)this past summer. I think the VPA looks like a very tough head and it is very easy to sharpen. Easier to sharpen thant he single bevel by far for me.
However, I haven't had the "courage" to hunt with the 3-blade yet. I hunt with 46-48# recurves and arrows that weight 424-505 grains (lately the heavier). I'm sure I'd have no problem on whitetail deer with the VPA.
I'm trying to decide if the VPA would be better for a 2013 moose hunt or not. The bow will likely be a 52# Morrison and I'm thinking to change to a 200 grain Helix with a brass ferrule. How much insert weight I go with will be determined by tuning. I want to stay with 500 spine Easton Axis n-fused Traditional arrows (new model).
Two fellows who have more experience on big stuff than I have tell me to steer clear of 3-blades on the moose.
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Bowwild: My wife shoots 3 blade Razorcaps with 44# @ 26" and shot thru a deer almost lengthwise. I shot a moose with a Razorcap and it was down in 3 steps. I was shooting about 5# more weight than you are using but would have gotten a pass thru if I hadn't hit the offside leg on the moose.
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Both are great blades but i like the VPA three blades better.
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Have tried very hard to use Grizzly's with varied results on white-tails. You wouldn't need Grizzly's for turkey either. My vote would be for the 3 blade VPA's for turkeys & deer.
As aside, I am a huge fan of Ashby's writings and excellent at sharpening the Grizzly (Kodiak) shaving sharp. I have shot them for years and have killed several deer with them, however, do not feel that they actually offer much advantage on deer sized game, respectfully JMO. I have many Grizzly's and will retain them for bigger things...an excellent head no doubt!
Kris
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Its your choice as both are good head but im a 3 blade guy have been for 30 some years, have never been disappointed.
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This is an interesting thread. The information posted is sincere and represents the experience of a lot of folks. I wouldn't contest anyone's opinion on this issue.
It does point out to me though that the variables involved in comparing well made broadheads are almost infinite. Such things as bow performance, arrow weight, arrow tuning, archer's form, shot placement, animal's "attitude", angle, sharpness, ... on and on.
I'm sure nearly everyone here with years of experience with identical set-ups, can report differences in broadhead performance that can't be explained.
For every few positive anecdotes someone else will have an dramatically different story to tell.
Of course these kinds of posts/questions are relevant. The questioning archer is simply trying to minimize the learning curve and skip a bad experience or two.
I reckon one is left to go with the advice of a couple of folks who shoot similar set-ups with success and hope for the best.
I've shot 2-blades for probably 30 years of my 42 years of bowhunting ("both" kinds of bows) with no complaints. I've been shooting 2 blades for each of the last 3 years I've returned to recurves, again with positive results (although not perfect but the imperfections are my fault for poor shot placement).
I do hate the idea of a 2-blade sliding by veins and arteries that if cut would help with recovery. The 3-blade should, if it penetrates deep enough, catch and disrupt those nearby blood vessels. That is IF it penetrates deep enough is the key question.
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Ive come to the realization that my gear is only as good as I am. Either will suffice if you do your part. I think about shooting ungulates as if there are two balloons in the chest that I need to pop. If I pop them both, it'll be a short blood trail. Along those lines I use a big 3 bladed snuffer for deer and Turkey, and a 2 blade for elk out of my moderate weight bow (53@29).
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Even with those high #40 bows you have listed, you should be fine with those VPAs for deer or turkey. My 13 year old son just crushed a turkey with a 250g VPA and he is shooting mid 40s with his TallTines.
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VPA 3 blade, 200g 1-1/4"
Eric
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Well after using 2 bladed heads on everything decades (including the often mentioned umbilical cord of my youngest) I decided to give 3 blades(vpa) a try, you know betterblood trails. Several deer later I see no discernable difference between them. I did try single bevel Abowyer Brown Bears and killed an elk and 2 deer with them. Very little to no blood but I saw 2 of the three fall and heard the third. Farthest recovery about 50 yards. There may be something to the low impact claim by Abowyer. The deer walked away, the elk ran. Hmm. Now I'm playing with Simmons Treesharks. When it's all said and done, I'll probably end up where I started, Zwickey Deltas.
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I shoot both same weight your looking at. I can get the grizzlies shaving sharp, but am challenged withe the VPA.
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After killing numerous deer and turkey with both heads I am a 2 blade guy. I have grizzly and tuffheads in my quiver, makes me no difference which I shoot. I am a firm believer that I get much less reaction from the deer shot with either of these head then a 3 blade. But they all work just fine
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Originally posted by Three Finger:
LOL Brock funds. But thanks I may go with the vpa they will work for both well.
give me your address...will send you a Grizzly Kodiak 200gr to shoot...and also a 190gr Ribtek to shoot. Maybe they will keep you busy enough to not worry about the funds for the VPAs... :)
if you like the 190 ribbies...let me know and I can work something out for 5 more to round them out for you. If you like the Kodiak better....then you will have to buy your own as i only have 6 of those...haha
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They're both great - wouldn't be a gnat's hair difference between them.
I haven't seen penetration differences between two or three blade heads. A wide two blade with thick blades probably takes as much energy to penetrate as a narrower 3 blade.
A few years ago I shot a shiras moose in Wyoming with a 65# recurve, 30" Easton FMJ with a 225 gr. 3 blade woodsman on front - I think it was about 650 gr total arrow weight - shot the bull twice through the lungs and once just behind the lungs through the diaphragm - all three arrows went through him like he wasn't there and buried in the snow 10 - 20 yards beyond him. Don't know if moose are easy to shoot through or if I wsa just lucky.
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Let me share some of my experience with them. I shot a deer with a 190 grizzly El Grande. The arrow did not pass all the way through somehow, probably because of the shot angle. It was sticking out the other side. The blood was pretty good the whole way. I am shooting 780Gr CX 350's and out of my setups listed below, so I know I had more then enough mustard to get the job done.
I shot another deer this year with a 190 Grizzly El Grande, and this time the arrow went right through it and was buried in the ground. He went 15 yards, and never even knew he was hit. I got down after watching him lay down and expire, and noticed there was barely any blood if any. I send all of my Grizzly's to Ron @ KME, so I know they are scary sharp.
A couple of weeks ago I had shot a Turkey with a 160 snuffer and had somehow lost it. It flew and I never recovered it.I looked for hours. I'm not bashing Snuffers as I still believe in their lethality. I got these heads especially for Turkeys, I just don't know what had happened and have a cut wing feather for my efforts.
A few days later, I had shot a Jake and it went a total of 25 or so yards after the shot. I had shot this one with another Grizzly. But I noticed there was not a lot of blood with this one as well. I have read a lot of things that go both ways, if 100 people say the blood trails are minimal, there is another 100 people say they have awesome blood trails.
So I'm not to sure what to think. I am convinced that the Grizzlys are great heads and do preform well though.
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I'm waiting on some vpa terminators to come in the mail. They look like a sweet head. I plan to shoot practice with them all year and try to take my first traditional deer next season :)
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Oh yeah I ordered them in 250 gr weight
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I can't remember offhand if I shot more moose with a three blade or a two blade (I'm not a... pardon the word, LOL, "trophy" hunter) but besides being heavier (which is great), the VPA profile is slimmer and smoother than the different three blade broadheads that I have used in the past, so you should be fine.
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Like I posted earlier, I use both heads. I just started with the Grizzlys this season. I have killed the last 3 animals with the Grizzlys, 2 hogs and 1 deer. I made great shots on all three. I had massive and short blood trails on all 3. Here are some pictures.
The first hog. 170# boar
At the point of impact:
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/Benjy45/TradGang/DSC06975.jpg)
10 yards down the trail, You can see the solid line of the blood trail running at 2 o'clock from the tree:
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/Benjy45/TradGang/DSC06974.jpg)
Dead hog:
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/Benjy45/TradGang/DSC06980.jpg)
Next was this doe, I did not take any pictures of the blood trail but my non hunting Brother in law was almost running down the trail to get to her, this is the entrance side:
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/Benjy45/TradGang/DSC07042.jpg)
Last was this 125# sow. She only went 30 yards after the shot. There was a masive amount of blood at the impact spot. I took these 2 pictures from the stand! Do you see the blood right at the bottom of the green logo on the nocked arrow? You can also see the hog laying on the ground halfway between the flashlight and the top of the picture.
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/Benjy45/TradGang/DSC07049.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/Benjy45/TradGang/DSC07048.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/Benjy45/TradGang/DSC07052.jpg)
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VPA all the way they are TOTALLY indestructible and leave awesome blood trails. The grizzlies are a great head but they do have a design problem in that the tip is not thick enough to handle the twisting force applied to the head while it is rotating through bone. I will gurantee you never break a VPA 3 blade.
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I can sharpen 3 blades best of the two. I like the price of the 160gr. Snuffer for my wood arrows & I do like the one piece VPA / Woodsman / Trailmaker for a screw in head.
Go with the style you can get consistently sharp & feel confident with.
,,,
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Originally posted by JamesKerr:
VPA all the way they are TOTALLY indestructible and leave awesome blood trails. The grizzlies are a great head but they do have a design problem in that the tip is not thick enough to handle the twisting force applied to the head while it is rotating through bone. I will gurantee you never break a VPA 3 blade.
James, how many animals have you killed with them?
You will GUARANTEE????
How many animals have you killed with a bow?
Just curious, you have a lot of answers for everything for a 19 year old.
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Benjy thay longbow is awesome! What type of camera is that if I may ask?
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Coming back to this I will give you some perspective I have from testing on some pretty dense bone (ball joint and the bottom of the shoulder blade of a 380 lbs hog). The VPA's are still my top pick for the head but I did manage to bend one (which I thought to be impossible after shooting one at a broadhead shoot and it hit the steel part of those metal targets that have a hole you shoot through not once but 3 times) I think the one I bent was probably a fluke as I have never bent or heard of another one bending. The Grizzlies I had were the 120 grains and they would bend or break right at the end of the ferrule every time bone was in contact. I think the heavier Grizzlies with thicker blades would hold up fine but the 120's just don't have a thick enough blade to hold up to bone impacts.
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Traditional bowhunter mag had an article on broadhead penetration testing back awhile that had some great info. If memory serves me correctly I believe it was Ashby that did the testing, may be wrong.
May want to look that up before you buy, three bladed heads fared the worst on every penetration test.
Obviously guys love them and have had good luck with them.