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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Shaun on January 07, 2013, 05:39:00 PM
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Yesterday I got a surprise call from Mr. Rothaar asking if I could come track for him. Saturday afternoon he had center shot a nice 8 point with his signature Snuffer and could not find it. I had commitments for the rest of the day but agreed to come over Monday. His son Ryan has a cousin to my dog and hunts Iowa when he can, but was back home 7 hours away in Indiana.
Grätsche and I drove 100 miles to the Rathaar farm early this morning. Roger is a wealth of archery stories and information and the telling got started in the pre sunrise grey as we waited for more light and warmth to start the track. He has a shop/man cave building with a trophy room full of giant whitetails. Can you imagine 50 years of big deer? No, REALLY BIG deer!
At full light we headed out and about an hour later found this nice 150 class buck. I was really proud of my 2 year old teckel and her work on this 40 hour track.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Rothaar002_zps007b8fdb.jpg)
Back to the house for lunch (thanks Jane) and a full plate of more stories. I had met Roger at several archery gatherings with the usual "Hi, my name is ....." and on to the next table. This was a gift, to be of help and to spend time with one of the elder statesmen of our sport.
Ah, what a day
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Rothaar012_zpscc8222ef.jpg)
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Not a bad way to spend some time....and you got lunch to!! :thumbsup: :notworthy: Nice deer!!
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Way to go guys, that is awesome. Roger, you are my idol to kill big deer with the stickbow. Your son is following your footsteps quite well. Hope you have many more hunts. God Bless!!!!
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Very cool, did the dog pull out all the hair??
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What a great experience that had to be. I will bet that was a day you will never forget. Good memories.
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Shaun, that is awesome!
Roger is looking pretty trim and dapper, I am surprised to see him in camo!
He and Jane are two of the nicest people around. Next time work it so it is a LATE tracking job...Roger's stories get better after midnight and Jane make the BEST flapjacks ever in the cast iron pan.
:thumbsup:
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What a great way to spend the day. Did the coyotes get to the deer a bit?
Nice deer Roger!
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Your dog is awesome, Nice trailing job. Congrats to Roger R. That is a super nice buck.
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Bobcat! Worked on it some and then tried to hide it by scratching leaves up over it - no white belly showing but Roger spotted it ahead soon after we sorted out the new direction from the final wound bed. Grätsche pulled a few hairs too and gave it a good chewing to make sure it was dead. Her deer! I have to tie her to a sapling out of reach before anyone but me can do knife work on one she finds.
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Nice buck, he is one fellow I sure would like to meet!
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Great story Shaun and congrats on finding that dandy buck. No post mortem details..... pass thru, too far back, ??? How far total did this buck go ?
So others can learn...... :campfire:
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That is about as cool as it gets for a fella with a tracking dog! Congratulations to all the of you!
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:clapper:
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Now that is cool.
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Shot from a ground blind at 20 yards. Roger thought he hit it center up and down and 4 inches forward of center - maybe liver. Roger has come down a little in draw weight with shoulder issues and maybe some age factor - now shooting low 50's @ 30" draw recurve and sharp 160 Snuffer w/ carbon arrow. Hit a rib going in with a loud crack sound.
Turned out the deer was hit dead center up/down and front to back (here in Iowa we call that hitting them in the corn) slight angle towards the back. He rolled away from the arrow making the exit higher than the entry, exit wound but not a pass through. Good blood for the first 50 yards then the arrow broke off against a tree allowing the entry wound to partially close and greatly reducing blood trail. Approximately 600 yard tracking before the wound bed and a few more yards past that to the deer. Most blood along the trail was pink (thinned with clear fluid) with some deep red spots of vein blood. Deer followed major game trials part of the way then turned off and returned to his home bedding ridge top to lay down.
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Very cool story and a great deer too!
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Wow, congratulations all the way around, what a great way to spend time with a legend!
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great deer and great out coming too.
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Shaun-way to help out a great hunter, legendary in my mind! I remember talking buck hunting here in Michigan at the 'Outdoorama' with Roger in the 1980's! I always respected what he had to say and still read his book, 'Hunting Trophy Whitetails'! Great job and thanks!
Kenny :bigsmyl:
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Had the pleasure of spending some time with Roger several years ago after he spoke at a local Deer hunting seminar in Terre Haute, IN. A local archery shop sponsored the event and the shop owner invited me and a couple of my friends to his house to have dinner with Roger after the show was over. Memorable evening for sure. They don't come any better!
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Shaun, thanks again for giving the Old Man a hand!
:thumbsup:
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Wow, Roger is one of my heros!!!
Nice work by the tracking dog!
Congrats to all
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hi Ryan; just got off the phone with your dad. Next time you are talking to him ,be sure and ask him to tell you the " african Dog Story"! :biglaugh:
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Great buck, great story. Thanks
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:thumbsup:
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Congrates to Roger and to Shaun for helping him out. Rogers book Whitetail Majic is my all time favorite.
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Really cool!
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Wow that's cool. Dandy buck.
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Very cool story!! Thanks for sharing your special day with us :)
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Great story!
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Great job. :thumbsup:
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Cool story Shaun, You are a true traditional hunter, always ready to help a brother of the bow......Thanks.....Bobby
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What an awesome experience that day had to be. Good for you for taking the time to help, and good for Roger for still getting after those whitetails. Nice buck!
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Thanks for the rest of the story Shaun.... :notworthy: Amazing how far some deer can go and how quick others go down....
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Great job Shaun! Thats a day to remember.
I think I have the brother to your dog. My dog's name is Zwickey and he is black with gray dappling. He found a few this year as well.
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Congrats! What a great deer.
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Great tracking job Shaun,with a well detailed escaping route.What a pleasure must have been to meet with Roger and visiting his den!
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Great story. And to tell Roger I am busy but can come in the morning made it all the more interesting. Between your bow building and dog tracking you are a person of interest also.
Thanks for sharing. I would love to see Rogers shop and hear the story's.
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Good to see Mr.Rothaar is still bustin those big bucks.Would love to see him write another book. I'm sure it would lend itself to some very exciting fireside reading in the off season. How about it sir! :thumbsup:
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Fantastic stuff! :clapper:
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Thats great. Love the story. And a nice buck to boot. God bless.
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What a pig!! Thanks for the pics
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Man that is cool. I have always been impressed by blood dogs and hounds.
How cool is it to share time and stories with a legend of the sport.
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He certainly is an amazing bowhunter and what is he now...92? :rolleyes: :eek:
:thumbsup: :notworthy:
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What a buck!
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Cool story...would consider getting a Wire-haired Dachshund myself. Me and bros are very capable at blood tracking but when there "ain't blood" it quickly becomes very "un-fun".
Kris
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More "atta boys" for Roger, Shaun and their little buddy. As much as many hate to admit it, there are times when we need help to finish our responsibility to a great animal. I've known and admired Roger for over 40 years now. Hard to believe it been that long but true. He defintely has a way with words too. I just read what Roger wrote in Don Higgins new book "Whitetail Icons." I don't know what Roger's IQ is, but I think it would scare us if we ever found out!
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Cool story,thanksfor sharing.
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I was privelaged to share a bear camp with him and his eldest son, Ron, back in the mid 90s with just those two and myself and one friend that I went with from Maryland. The four of us shooting, eating, hunting and just enjoying Gods gifts. It was a special week hearing his stories, getting shooting instruction, and just listening to the history.
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great story
a 40 hour old track is very impressive
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Uncle Gene I agree with you. When I first read "whitetail Magic" I had to go over it a number of times to grasp what Roger what communicating. That was some studying done during my college days when I probably should have studying my school work!
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You lucky dog.Roger is one of the best whitetail hunters of all time. :clapper:
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Congrats on the blood trail work of the dog. Nothing better than seeing a dog work a trail. Cool buck you helped recover.
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Awesome!!
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Congratulations to all involved.
Ryan's little Teckal did some serious deer recovering this year as well. I've seen the beautiful 172" he recovered. Those little dogs are amazing.
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Great Story! A 40 hours track, wow!
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:bigsmyl: :bigsmyl:
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Nice job to all involved!
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Amazing, on a 40 hour old track. How does the dog know what deer to track? Do you put it on your deer and it can differentiate it from the others? What if several deer came in together and you shot one?
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Thats cool to get to track for such a legend.
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Awesome
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Cool Beans!! Great deer and sounds like a great time spent with a GOOD man/bowhunter. Congrats to both of you! :thumbsup: :clapper: :archer2:
I was lucky growing up in New Concord ohio and knowing and hunting with Jim Emerson, who was one of Rogers good hunting friends. I met Roger a few times when he and his familey where at Jims home. I was just a young kid at the time, but Jim always talked every highly of Roger as a good friend and a GREAT bowhunter.
Raven >>>>>--------->
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Good job fellas! I was fortunate to see and talk with Gene Wensel at Compton one year when Roger Rothaar "sidled up" to get in the conversation. Nicer guys couldn't be found.
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Roger Rathaar is a tremendous writer in addition to one of the best whitetail hunters around. I love his book "Whitetail Magic". Great job on the recovery.
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Pretty cool! Thanks for sharing.
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I've read everything the man has written...twice ! Would love to meet him. Nice job.
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what a story, what a deer and a good time you have !!!
congrats to all the team from the shoot to the lunch !
bravo !
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Big relief to find him I am sure and a great memory for you.
But, I think we need more on the real hero of the story! Tell us more about your dog.
We are looking for a new dog, and I would like to know more about yours and how many tracks she has been on and how much training she has had. Two years old and pulled off following a 40 hour old track on a gut shot makes me think we need to consider one of those.
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I agree with the above post... The hero here is the dog and I would like to hear more about how you trained him, or was it natural.
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Great job Shaun.......I bet Roger has forgot more about whitetails than most of will ever know. One of the best whitetail hunters, if not the best. His upbeat,postive attitude along with his humble nature really stands out in his writings.
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I think Shaun is out of town for a while (guiding/hunting for a month) so I'll answer a couple questions about the dog.
His dog and my dog are cousins (the mothers are full sisters) bred by the same lady in North Carolina. These are standard sized (that is 15-20 lb) smooth haired dachshunds (Teckels) of European lineage. These dogs are quintessential hunting dogs in Europe, although the wire haired version is more prevalent today than the smooth. They are considered versatile hunting dogs.
The breeder breeds for a versatile hunting dog, and the traits that type of breeding promotes are the same traits that lead to a good blood tracking dog. The natural ability is there, the focus, intelligence, and prey drive, and the owner/handler has to help develop that through training. It is not a very difficult process - although takes a commitment of time and some understanding of dog behavior - with these dogs, and frankly you learn as much or more than the dog does with the training. Eventually, if things work out, you become a tracking or hunting TEAM with the dog.
Dogs from this this bloodline very often will follow simple blood tracks at 8 weeks or less of age - the hunting is in thier nature - and to them it is not "following a scent line" but "killing something to eat". The breeder works with the pups with deer meat/blood at a VERY young age and they show interest in the smell as soon as the eyes open. Don't think of a beagle following a rabbit...think of a coyote following a wounded animal. Our Oskar was doing 300+ yard practice tracks using diluted deer blood with multiple turns that were laid out 12 hours earlier by the time he was 10 weeks old. He found his first real deer at 15 weeks old. These dogs can be phenomenal trackers. I would expect that a well trained and handled dog from this bloodline (and Shaun is a great handler) would readily complete this kind of a recovery (40 hour) at two years old.
You also have to forget alot of what you know about tracking from a human perspective - a gutshot, while not leaving alot of visible blood, leaves a profusion of scent for a dog - clear liquid, stomach/intestinal material etc. Gutshot deer are among the easiest for a dog while hardest for a human to track.
One more thing to demonstrate the quality of this breeder's dogs - as of last Spring when we did the tests, our dog Oskar, and Shaun's dog's mother (Enyo) were the only dogs I'm aware of in the US that have passed both the VSwP 20 hour and 40 hour tests with 2 Prize 1 awards. This is a very demanding blood tracking test used in Europe to assess both the dog's ability and the handler/dog teamwork.
Working with these dogs over the last several years has really opened our eyes to the possibilites and reality of a good blood dog.
Ryan
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Originally posted by Ryan Rothhaar:
I think Shaun is out of town for a while (guiding/hunting for a month) so I'll answer a couple questions about the dog.
His dog and my dog are cousins (the mothers are full sisters) bred by the same lady in North Carolina. These are standard sized (that is 15-20 lb) smooth haired dachshunds (Teckels) of European lineage. These dogs are quintessential hunting dogs in Europe, although the wire haired version is more prevalent today than the smooth. They are considered versatile hunting dogs.
The breeder breeds for a versatile hunting dog, and the traits that type of breeding promotes are the same traits that lead to a good blood tracking dog. The natural ability is there, the focus, intelligence, and prey drive, and the owner/handler has to help develop that through training. It is not a very difficult process - although takes a commitment of time and some understanding of dog behavior - with these dogs, and frankly you learn as much or more than the dog does with the training. Eventually, if things work out, you become a tracking or hunting TEAM with the dog.
Dogs from this this bloodline very often will follow simple blood tracks at 8 weeks or less of age - the hunting is in thier nature - and to them it is not "following a scent line" but "killing something to eat". The breeder works with the pups with deer meat/blood at a VERY young age and they show interest in the smell as soon as the eyes open. Don't think of a beagle following a rabbit...think of a coyote following a wounded animal. Our Oskar was doing 300+ yard practice tracks using diluted deer blood with multiple turns that were laid out 12 hours earlier by the time he was 10 weeks old. He found his first real deer at 15 weeks old. These dogs can be phenomenal trackers. I would expect that a well trained and handled dog from this bloodline (and Shaun is a great handler) would readily complete this kind of a recovery (40 hour) at two years old.
You also have to forget alot of what you know about tracking from a human perspective - a gutshot, while not leaving alot of visible blood, leaves a profusion of scent for a dog - clear liquid, stomach/intestinal material etc. Gutshot deer are among the easiest for a dog while hardest for a human to track.
Working with these dogs over the last several years has really opened our eyes to the possibilites and reality of a good blood dog.
Ryan
hello Ryan, good to see this kind of success in your country !
Here in France by exemple the blood tracker dog is a full part of the hunting world with a very serious national association called UNUCR . in each state you have a list of official blood dog driver (it's a hard process for the dog and his master to be graduate ) you can call and they come to you each time you ask for help. It's totaly free and each year thousands of big game are not lost thank to those guys , most of them just completely stop to hunt for themselves , and they became 100 % blood hunter with wonderful dogs !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGeRTu9vfvs
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Thanks for the explanation Ryan. So cool and useful. I'm sure there are a few of us here that are very interested and would consider a Dachshund for ourselves.
Look forward to your seminar at Compton's this June.
Kris
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Ryan,
Thanks for the dog update, very interesting.
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Congrat's to Roger as you have taken another nice buck with one of your snuffer's. I had the privilege of spending lots of time with Roger and his family in spring bear camp.I miss those spring day's chasing bears around and doing lots of ATV riding.
Ryan: say hi to your dad from me,I still remember the day the bug spray got you on Roger's bait.
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Shaun....great story and pictures...
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Originally posted by larry f:
Congrat's to Roger as you have taken another nice buck with one of your snuffer's. I had the privilege of spending lots of time with Roger and his family in spring bear camp.I miss those spring day's chasing bears around and doing lots of ATV riding.
Ryan: say hi to your dad from me,I still remember the day the bug spray got you on Roger's bait.
Hi Larry-longtime no speak. I was there that year too when the bug spray got the best of Ryan.
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Hey, Big Fish! I remember something about you and your buddy having a quad race out of the Wildcat Hills in the dark too..
The neck still twinges me once in a while, but fortunately I was unconscious from the bug dope when I hit the ground. Otherwise it would have been worse.
R
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Shaun,
What an awesome track. I'm sure you were just as proud as Mr. Rothhar. My Chower is from the same line as your's & Ryan's. He's 100%, but I have only had him on a few tracks.
I bet he and Gretshe would make some pretty little Teckels! Thanks for sharing! Hope to come hunt with you again one of these days & bring Chowder next time!
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very cool - excellent work all ways around - thinking about getting one of these dogs. Looks like one of these among a group of hunters would go a long towards 100% recovery - GREAT buck - 600 yards 40 hours is amazing.
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