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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Keb on May 07, 2013, 09:33:00 PM
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Well, I'm planning a DIY southwest colorado alpine mule deer hunt. Have hunted whitetails and turkey all my life.
Anyone did this type of hunt, it will be a solo bivy hunt, I hear it's one of the toughest bow hunts out there. I have been running utlra marothons, running a 50 miler in September. I started them because I knew at some point I would have the drive to tackle the mountains.
Any advice, tactics, gear, anything will help. I have my units narrowed down and can draw with zero points, will be a 3 week time frame on hunt. 1st 3 weeks of the season.
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I did it once and am looking forward to going back soon. Altitude sickness was my first hard lesson. The other is don't under estimate the recreational runners and hikers and such that use these kinds of areas if your within 50 miles of a reasonably large town. If you are going to draw with no points, shoot me a PM and I can let you know if I know much about the area.
I didn't get one but it was a memorable and rewarding experience. Good luck.
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Maarv Clynke may or may not be on this board, but he has loads of experience in hunting big bucks above timberline. Look for his article in TB mag. Might be willing to give you some pointers if you get in touch with him.
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Well you've got the cardio covered. Lol. That's usually the big thing I would have you get covered. Regardless of how good of a hunter or shot you are. If your body can't make it there. You aren't doing anything. Do the research on the units. % Of kills, number of tags bought etc. I would be so bold as to say. EVERY UNIT HAS DEER! Just what quality are you looking for. A super mossback buck or any deer. Be prepared to bivy at high altitude in the bad wind and possibly rain and snow. And wake up early to glass from up high as the thermals are rising. Best not go it alone. I've seen deer in literally every unit I have hunted here in colorado. Again. Just decide what it is you are looking for.
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Got your PM. Hunted just east of there. Very steep country. I'd get a copy of Bowhunting Open Country Mule Deer by Dwight Schuh. You'll learn a lot about strategy from that one. I'd also get a copy of One With the Wilderness by Mike Mitten for strategy on going solo in that kind of wilderness.
Other things I learned...
Get a tent big enough to sit up in just in case you're stuck in it for over 24 hours. Don't wear your camo if you have to go into Aspen for fuel or something. Get good glass. I didn't take a spotter and that was a mistake. Hunt with your glass most of the day on a hunt like this. The better your glass, the better your hunt. I'll think of more later. Good luck!
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Originally posted by Duckbutt:
Don't wear your camo if you have to go into Aspen for fuel or something.
Hah, I am glad I did not follow your advice or I would have never met you...
Anyway, Julian gives good advice. Good optics are key. Drink lots of water and go a couple days early so you don't have to exert yourself until you can get acclimated to the altitude.
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What Monteray said, I would try to use Marve flagging technique the opening week. They become educated and scarce when push just one time. Become more difficult to see as the season goes on but I have always been looking for elk.
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Thanks for the advice, I have really no choice on the solo part, my hunting buddies are not interested or can make the time sacrifice, nor do I want to get them wrapped up in hunt they are not 110 percent on.
I am looking for a respectable deer, it would be icing on the cake, but just looking to learn and the experience for further ventures for elk,ect.
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OK then, flagging is out. Now mind you, I am no mule deer expert, but I have stalked a lot of sheep around where you are looking.
Get good binoculars.
Get them on a tripod.
USE the binoculars!
When you find the deer you want, do not rush. Watch him or her and take note of where the other deer are.
Now is the MOST important part. Get yourself some landmarks. Take some time and plan your stalk. Write it down if you have to. The mountains are big, but you can find specific marks to hit as you make your way to the deer.
Try to get above them and stalk down for your final stalk.
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Are vortex optics any good, read decent reviews, I will be on a budget, but I don't want to buy junk either.
The pair I have are junk, anyone use the sitka bivy 45 pack? Looking at that MSR Hubbard tent.
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The high end Razors are very good. They ones I have looked at are A- glass to my eyes. They will do you well.
They have improved the Sitka packs greatly since they first came out. I have a Bivy 45 Tall and use it for anything less than a major expedition. Long heavy trips I use a Mystery Ranch 6500.
HubbaHubba is a good one. Big Agnes makes good gear that wont break the bank. I used a Seedhouse II for a long time, they have better and lighter now. My BA sleeping bag and pad are one of my most prized possesions...better than the bed at home.
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I just put in for my iowa bow tag, hope to be hunting the loess hills in sw iowa. Turkey hunted in April, like a mini mountain range, steep stuff made this flat lander feel like he was in te mountains.
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BA bag?
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Look at Zen-Ray optics, for the $
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Big Agnes. They are in Colorado. Their sleeping bags have no insulation in the bottom, only a sleeve for an insulated pad. Their insulated air core pads are extremely comfortable.
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Steve O - ..."better than the bed at home"
You gotta get a better bed!
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Adam...You will have a great time. Hunting Mule Deer above timberline is one of my favorite hunts. It will get in your blood.
You've been given some great advise already. I'll expand on a few of the items and add a few. Most of this I learned the hard way, hopefully you won't have to.
Optics - Steve O is spot on about getting good binoculars. A spotting scope is also extremely helpful, but if you can only splurge on one or the other make it the binos. You will also want a nice tripod and head with a quick release plate and a bino adapter. Here is a pic of the setup I used on my last hunt
(http://i.imgur.com/2bcuwuq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/OyhHjkU.jpg)
The tripod is a Slik Sprint and the head is a Bogen 700RC2. Both are reasonably priced and I've been extremely happy with both.
The MSR Hubba tent is a great choice. Like Matty said you can expect some extremly strong winds and probably some violent storms during a week long hunt. It's a good idea to try to find some wind breaks for your tent if possible. Here is my HubbaHubba set up at about 12,500. It handled the winds without a hitch.
(http://i.imgur.com/niHjJFH.jpg)
You also need to narrow down the location you want to hunt within your unit. I would definately make calls to the biologist that handles that specific area as well the forest service ranger for that district. They can let you know which trails see the most use by recreational hikers.
One other thing worth considering if you are going in more than 6 or 7 miles is calling a local outfitter in the area (the forest service ranger will be able to tell you which ones are in the area you are looking at) and seeing if he offers a pack in service. Sometimes you can get them to pack you in at an extremely reasonable cost and it's a huge benefit to start the hunt on fresh legs. While you have them on the phone tell them the area you are looking at and ask them them if it typically holds good bucks or if they can recommend other areas. Be sure to tell them you're hunting with a stickbow...they'll think your crazy and are likely to share a little more info with you.
Once you get on your hunt and you spot your buck, listen to Steve O's advise and don't rush it (I've learned this one the hard way). If it's early in the morning try to watch him bed and let the morning thermals get steady. Make sure he's in an approachable location, if not don't push it. He will likely hang in the area until he's pushed so let him get in a location where you can access him without busting him. I've found that getting within 50 or 60 yds is not extremely difficult, it's closing that last 20 - 30 yards for a good stickbow shot where the hunt really begins. Once you do get within range, don't try to force anything, let him stand on his own and present a shot(again, learned the hard way).
(http://i.imgur.com/BNbUKhN.jpg)
There are also some excelent books out on the subject. One that I would recommend is Public Land Mule Deer by David Long. It is not specifically an archery book but it is about hunting Mule Deer above timberline and is a wealth of knowledge.
One last thing, I'm assuming you are talking about hunting in 2014 since 2013 apps were already due. Make sure you pay attention to the dates of the early rifle and muzzleloader season. Several of the units in SW CO have early season rifle and muzzleloader hunts for areas above timberline that fall within the first couple weeks of season. You can still bowhunt but you'll be competing with the guns. Just something to consider.
Good luck and enjoy....the planning is almost as fun as the hunt!!
(http://i.imgur.com/r9O2vps.jpg)
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You guys are awsome, I have it narrrowed down to to a few units. Do you guys carry a handgun, what power binos?
The hunt will be for 2014, seems I have a good chance at drawing the places I researched with no points. Its about a 16hr poke from big MO to SW Colorado and 12 to the other region.
Do you have a pack list? I will be on a budget and will have to be very savvy on gear, and use my legs to do the work.
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Best choice for all around bino is 10 x 42. They will work good everywhere. My list changes for every hunt. You figure out where you are going, get your list together and I am sure there are a bunch of guys here who will help you refine it and offer suggestions.
Only place I carry a handgun is Alaska.
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Copy that, let me ask you guys this, I have grown up hunting public land in the midwest, deer and turkey. Once i threw away every book and magzine and became a outside of the box hunter my sucess has risen to level I never imagened.
I hunt deer in places people would laugh at or overlook, sometimes they are deep or watching you from the parking lot. I can only assume that this holds true out there.
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What would be the best real world book to purchase.
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Missed that the 1st time, was to busy looking at them awsome photos (Public Land Mule Deer by David Long).
What about cell phone usage, satillite phones, I will need something, to let my wife know I am alive every week or so?
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Adam. I'm sure there are overlooked spots that hold some huge bucks. My problem is I live 16 hours away and don't have time to scout them out and I don't want to put all my eggs in that basket for a 10 day hunt. I know if I go high and deep I will get away from 95% of the other hunters and find deer. I'm sure you can find nice deer closer but from me I wouldn't start closer than 4-5 miles form the nearest road. Guys that live closer have the luxury of scouting more and finding easier accessable deer. The areas in the pics above is a little over 9 miles in.
You can't relly on cell phone coverage so I rent a satellite phone. They aren't too expensive for a weeks rental, just keep the conversations short as they charge quite a bit per minute.
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Copy that, do you pack in on foot? I see what your saying on the scouitng, makes sense, since I too live 16hrs away also.
Im looking at the 1st 3 weeks of the season, they have a early muzzle loader season, so it gives me two week from the opener to it.
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I pack in on foot most of the time. You probably won't be able to (or want to) pack in 3 weeks worth of food. I usually figure 1.5 - 2 lbs of food per day. So for 3 weeks you'd be looking at 30-35 lbs worth of food alone. The longest I've ever done was 14 days of food and I can tell you, it was a brutal pack. If I had 3 weeks I'd get there 5 days before season to give yourself a few days to acclimate and a few days to locate the deer.
One last thing I forgot to metion earlier. I know you said you've been running ultras. That's a great way to get fit cardio wise but I'd recommend supplementing that with some hills with a weighted pack. I also run marathons and the first year I hunted I relied solely on that training for my hunt. I found out real quick there's a huge difference in running on flat ground near sea level and hiking up mountains with a 40lb pack at 12,000 + ft. Just a thought.
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You can rent a sat phone and being solo for three weeks it would be very good idea. Can't count on cell service! There are also some emergency beacon divices out there that send a distress signal by satellite along with your lat and long. Thats all I know about them but might be worth looking in too.
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Looks like I can rent one for 30 a week, 1 buck a minute, phone weighs 1 pound.
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Looks like I got the wife talked into a summer vacation/scouting/ camping trip in August. So I can see what things look like. 200 acres of timber is big wood here.
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That's cheap insurance! Even with hunting partners to help each other out, somebody may need a chopper or other immediate egress like RIGHT NOW!
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Keb, I have a crazy idea, since you won't try the CO hunt until 2014:
Hunt mule deer this fall with an OTC tag where you will (1) spend a lot less money and drive less, (2) see mulie bucks and even some big ones, (3) work out the bugs in your optics and bivy camping gear, and (4) practice for the big time in CO next year. Where? NE, SD and ND all have OTC mule deer tags, unless something has changed and I'm mistaken. (Hint - there is a PBS membership hunt in one of the mentioned states with experienced bowhunters that probably would be very helpful to you, just saying....)
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I have done allot of research on NE, and may make a run this sepember but my issues is time.
I am 99 percent sure I will draw a Iowa bow tag and have schuedled to take off the 1st 25 days of November. Since its a 3 year wait on tags, it will be my priority this fall.
SD an NE are on my radar for sure,and hope to hunt them in the future as well.
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The PBS membership hunt is in October in NE...
http://www.probowsociety.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1404
A previous PBS membership hunt in SD offered some opportunities at plains mulies - not quite alpine mulies but close enough...I used my spotting scope, binos, bivy tent and stalking skills, plus there were whitetails and turkeys to hunt that you won't get on an alpine hunt. Several big bucks spotted.
PBS membership has many benefits, including the membership hunts all over the country for various critters.
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Anywhere down here in the Southwest is covered up with deer and some nice bucks. Lots of deer over 160 with good ones popping up once in a while.
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I actally hunted them near Broken Bow NE, near Oconto about 5 years ago, killed a mulie doe.
Hunted the mulies in the hills in am and whitetail in the evening near the creek, saw a 150 whitetail and forgot all about the mule deer.
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Gear List
Pack: Badlands 4500
GPS: Garmin EX 30 with topo/birds eye
Binos: Lepould 10 X 42 w/tripod
Rain Gear: Cabelas space saver rain gear
Sleeping bag: Themarest Antres 20F down 1.15 oz
Pad: NeoAir Xlite 12 oz
Tent: either MSR Hubba 2.9lbs or Carbon Reflex 2 3.6lbs
Stove: Jetboil
Which tent you recomomend, the Hubba or Carbon Reflex 2. The have a Cabon 1, but for the weight the extra room would be nice.
If I go with the Hubba I can get better optics.
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No question Hubba and better optics. What model binos are you looking at?
Good advice given so far.
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For sure get the better optics. I'd recommend the Hubba Hubba, it's a "2" person tent but really fits one with plenty of room. If you get weathered in, the extra room will really be appreciated. The nice thing about the HH is that you can set up the fly by itself with out the inner mesh tent, this will cut the weight nearly in half. Find a copy of Backcountry Bowhunting by Cameron Hanes, LOTS of good info. A great online resource for backcountry hunting is rokslide (dot) com.
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It is unanimous...go for the gold in optics. Leupold makes great rifles scopes. Their binoculars not so much, and their spotting scopes are a big no from the few I have looked thru. Compact is great unless you need to see well.
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Copy that
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They were the top end lepould, the midrange vortex are going to be tuff to beat I think.
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If they were these $1000 Gold Rings
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/osminski/2013%20Post%20Pics/8cc752b46ccc6d38d6049fa70682c498_zps66e395e2.jpg)
A new set of Razor HDs will blow them away. If you watch the auction site you can find some used Leica, Swarovski, or Zeiss cheaper than new Vortex. Most guys don't use their expensive optics up.
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Keb, you're getting a lot of good advice from the Tradders. DEFINITELY mount your binos on a tripod. It took me too many years hunting/glassing the backcountry to catch on to this--knew about it, just figured resting my elbows on my knees was good enough. Not so! You'll find way more deer with your optics totally solid. For a scope, check out the Kowa TSN-60. It is reasonably priced (still expensive) compared to Swarovski and Zeiss. I used the 12X50 Swarovski's last year and LOVED them. I had been using the 10X42's up until then. I've used all of the MSR tents, from the original Hubba, Hubba HP, Carbon Reflex in both 1 & 2 person versions. All of them are great tents. My CR2 broke its ridge pole in a severe windstorm in Colorado last year and the broken pole tore a hole in the rain fly. Luckily one of my buddies had an extra tent or Steadman would have been bummed! I think you'll have plenty of time with 3 weeks to hunt. I would work on a Plan A, B & C area. With that amount of time to hunt, you'll likely burn up your spot if you hunt one area for that length of time. If you go in for ten days, carrying that much food won't be too bad. Then you can pull out mid-trip and move. If you don't have time to scout, you'll want to have more than one option lined up anyway. If you want to look into something besides a Sat phone, get a SPOT Connect. I've used it on some of my backcountry hunts with good success. You can send 160 character text messages, SOS calls and pre-composed messages to cell or email recipients. Unfortunately, it is only one way communication. I have had good luck with cell service when I'm on ridge or mountain tops. Typically, Verizon has better service than the other carriers when you are in remote areas. When you are doing your research, you should be able to find out from biologists, packers or forest service employees about cell service before you commit to a Sat phone. I rented one once, made a test call as instructed, then was never able to get out on it the whole time I was hunting. Had sufficient signal, but it wouldn't connect. Glad I didn't have an emergency!
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Yeah, the only truly safe thing to do is carry a PLB that does not rely on satellites. I have had decent luck with Iridium phones and would not even look at Globalstar, their constellation is jacked. That said the Globalstar one way (simplex) portion of the sat's is working fine and SPOT does a good job of keeping folks informed.
I second KOWA, my spotter is quite nice for the money and totally overlooked by the hunting community.
If you don't backpack much I would highly recommend a few trial runs during the shoulder seasons to get used to gear and trim some of the fat. We all carry way too much the first time out .
In terms of a shelter I have been using a tipi or just a fly/tarp type setup for the last few years and really like it. The offerings from GoLite can be found used and relatively inexpensive or the MSR fast and light tents.
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Keep it coming learning something new every few hours, thanks guys.
Bivy hunter, I was watching one of your videos today, what's the distance of most of your shots?
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Listen to South!! Yes a bummer undead as it was the first night of an 8 day hunt!! I learned then that carbon arrows and duct tape would have had a place in the backcountry!!
I can't answer for all of Souths shots but I filmed him make about a three yard shot give or take a couple feet. Shot distance is what you make of it. If you stalk a buck that's in a position to only offer a thirty yard shot, that's what you'll get. Be patient, you can find close shots. I was lucky to get to hunt with one of the premier back country mule deer hunters and learned more than I could have on my own in years. Water is very important!!! Good luck, it is one of my most cherished hunting memories for sure!!
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I'm currently cyber scouting, what features should I look for?
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Keb,
You've hit the jackpot with the folks that are giving you tips on this thread....the best of the best. I'd have given up body parts for some South Cox advice before my first solo trip above timberline for mossy horns!
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I dont know if anyone has said this yet but look at hornhunter packs. They are made in the USA. Some of the best backs i have ever hunted with.
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Copy that, gotten allot of tips from folks that will save me some time instead of wandering around in the mnts. Cant say enough thanks to those giving me a hand on this adventure.
Im glad I am doing the homework now, instead of when I get the tag, I have it narrowed down to a unit I should be able to draw in it or one other one.
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Guys, I know this may piss some off, I know how many of you feel about supporting the local guides, the mom & pop retailers, etc... But I will say don't come to Colorado to hunt. Our state government, run by liberal progressives, won't support you, don't support them with fees and taxes. Any animal you wish to hunt can be found elsewhere. Just my 2 cents.
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I live and hunt in Colorado and disagree with everything you say and imply.
Cynical does not even begin to describe your comments.
Joshua
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Funny thing is I was using an Iridium sat phone. I know the Globalstar system went down a handful of years ago. They actually just started re-launching new satellites in the past couple of years. Check their website for updated info, but they should be good to go for this coming season. I stopped by their booth at the Outdoor Retailers Show last August and they were functional then and increasing coverage with each new satellite launch.
My farthest shot distance in 2011 in Colorado was less than 20 yards and as close as 12 feet. 2012 was also measured in feet. It all depends on the country that you're hunting. The country I hunt in Nevada, my shots are much longer, 25-40 yards. I was lucky and found a basin that had several bands of rimrock that bucks would occasionally bed below. When I'm looking at new country, I'm always looking for country that is conducive to stalking. Minor folds in the terrain, boulder fields, small creek drainages or ditches etc. This type of country would likely be tough to pick out on Google Earth as you are looking for subtle terrain features. They don't have to be formidable obstacles, just big enough to hide a sneaky bowhunter. Personally, I like to let bucks I am after bed down before I stalk them. This usually gives me the time I need to do a loop around and come in from behind (and hopefully above)them. Feeding bucks are more distracted, but if they are moving as they feed, it can be futile to try to keep up with them. Beware of the ampitheater bowls, even if they are packed with big bucks. I watched a basin with 11 bachelor bucks in it for the better part of a week in 2011 and never was able to put a decent stalk together. From the bottom or the side, the bucks could watch anything that came into the bowl. It was torture!
I would go in a day or two before the season at most. I have found when I go in 7-10 miles, I run into few other hunters. I would rather be "scouting" with a bow in my hand and a valid tag ready for use. If you are hunting an area with more pressure, you would definitely be wise to spend more time before the opener identifying as many spots with bucks as you could so that you would have as many options as possible when the hunters started showing up. I've found that the majority of the guys that I've seen are after elk or quickly loose heart with the ruggedness of the terrain or the idea of packing out a buck and then having to return for their camp.
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Thanks agian for the advice. What kind of pack do you use?
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I know South is super busy, but for the last two years he used the KUIU icon. Last year we both had the 5000. They were great for bivying out from our base camp and hauling Souths buck back to base camp. Get a pack that's comfortable and can haul the amount of weight you're gonna carry without problems. I'm doing workout with my KUIU 3000 with 50 lbs without a problem right now.
Bottom line is do your research get in shape and go hunt. There will always be things you'll want to change or will be better next time.
Oh prepare your mind too!
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"I would work on a Plan A, B & C area." - South Cox
"When I'm looking at new country, I'm always looking for country that is conducive to stalking." - South Cox
"Oh prepare your mind too!" - Ryan Steadman
Adam...of all the advise you've been given, the ones above are probably three of the most important. Don't overlook them. These are way more important than the gear you select.
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Copy that. Thanks agian folks.
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One last thing to all the guys who were kind enought to offer help, if you ever plan a DIY, deer hunt in iowa,kansas or Missouri get with me. I have been all over them chasing big whitetails.
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In one of Steadmans posts he pointed out that water is important. You will need to have water close, it is brutal to have to drop down very far to get your water. Most basins have water some dont. You will also need a good way to treat your water.
Enjoy, alpine in the Colorado mountains Will get in your blood!
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What timing for this thread. I have 11 preference points for deer, elk, antelope and mtn. goat and planned on using the deer points for a mountain buck hunt in 2014. Like Keb, I'm already gearing up for it with more than one purchase from Kifaru. The hunt is well over a year away but I'm already excited. I may hunt with a rifle or bow, I'm not quite sure yet. I still haven't narrowed down the area I want to hunt yet.
Keb, my points may put me in a different area than you but, if we can make the hunt together, that may make it easier from a supply and safety standpoint.
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Parshal, it would be a shame to burn all of those points on a unit that you could draw with 0-1 point....but I would burn 11 on the unit I've hunted the for the past couple of years!!
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I wouldn't use my points for a 0 draw area. I'd save them for the following year.
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Well from my research, not to many units left where zero points will get you in the door. Less than 50 percent in most with no points.
But going with someone might be a good idea, because I don't think I could pack that 200" out by myself. LOL
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I'm putting together my gear and on a budget looking at theses, for high country mule deer bow hunt.
Kelty gunnison 1.2 4.3 lbs
Kelty ignite dry/down 20 degree bag. 2.12 oz
Kelty backpack pad 1.8 oz
= 8.6 lbs.
I figure since I shot trad bow, no range finder or release or extra release, and use a havalon knife, I can make up diff and put me under 8lbs and save some money for better glass.
I plan to use a sitka bivy 45 pack, take as much as I can on the 1st trip out with it, and return with frame pack if I make a harvest.
Ur thoughts?
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Well, after many weeks of research, phone calls and some help from you guys, I have narrowed my search down on units with muliple loacion. My goal is to survive he trip in the alpine terrian and hunt hard and locate some bucks, getting one will be icing on the cake.
Can't wait till next April to apply and dive in sink or swim.
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I would skip the sitka pack myself.
I am suspicious of gear marketed to hunters.
It tends to be heavy, dubious quality and with all sorts of added frills you dont need
Ive got many years experience with mountaineering packs.
Fit is key.
You can get a lightweight, comfortable, durable multipurpose pack for less than that Sitka.
Additionaly you have a much, much larger variety.
Mountaineering packs are designed for fast unencumbered movement, thats what you want.
Look at packs by Osprey, Arc'Teryx or The North Face (Profit series). Also lean towards models that have adjustable torso lengths.
I own many mountaineering packs, the one I'll use for my backcountry hunt(s) is an older North Face Profit 65. It wieghs just over 3 lbs itself and I can fit plenty in there. About 60 lbs is my tipping point for wieght/comfort.
Also in an emergency you can slip you lower body in the pack and provide substantial warmth...
One last thing, only you can answer this, is your sleeping bag roomy enough?
I have spent many nights in a bag that didnt fit right. If you get a lil chilly, and need to toss around a bit, if your bag doesnt let ya. Your not sleeping.
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I have changed my mine on the pack, based on advice from people like ur self. Going with a kelty or mnt smith pak and a marmot bag.
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Well been 9 months in the making, the units have been selected the draw opens in a few days. The tag will be put in for and pretty sure I will draw it.
Then it's off to high country 2 weeks solo hunt. I will be 40 this year, the mnts are calling my name it's time.
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Good luck.
homebru
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:thumbsup: go get em bud!
Maybe I'll run into you out there.
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If you have not got a pack yet look into the horn hunter full curl system. They are the best packs for the money in my opinion.
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Also did you draw you're tag I drew my mule deer tag for the high country