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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Bob Moran on May 16, 2013, 10:31:00 AM
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I was in the woods yesterday and discovered several ticks on me when I got home. Time to treat my clothing!
You can buy treated clothing or do it yourself. I buy 10% permethrin from TSC and make a clothing soak of: 6 3/4 oz of 10% permethrin in 1 gallon of water. This makes a 0.5% solution. Soak the clothing and then hang it up to dry out of the sun.
If you would rather buy ready made stuff, Sawyer has a 0.5% permethrin spray that you can use. Either way, the stuff works and is not toxic to humans (I believe it is the stuff that the military treats clothing).
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:thumbsup: It's a terrible year for ticks around here. I like your idea of making the soaker solution. Probably a lot cheaper than the spray bottles.
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Had a male deer tick on my pants back in Feb.
I sprayed down before putting up a camera yesterday....not worth risking it.
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Yes, I mix my own also. I spend way too much time in the woods to buy those $5 cans of spray.
I have not had a tick or chigger bite in years and it keeps skeeters away too.
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Need to find the jug to make my own.
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Yes, the military has us soak our uniforms in Permethrin before deploying to the desert... due to disease carrying vectors. They say when you soak the clothes, it lasts six months through washings too. I know just spraying them is supposed to last a couple of weeks.
Good stuff. If done right, you shouldn't get another tick bite.
There are several brands out there. It's the same stuff used in the "SPOT" products you put on your dogs, flea dips, and cattle "range" bags to deter bugs. Some are petroleum based and leave a slight petroleum odor. Some are not are are marketed as "scent free", but do have a little odor until dry.
Some of the solutions are VERY powerful. Be careful to get the 10% and dilute. You can do an internet search and get dilution ratios.
Good tip Bob. I almost died from a tick bite some years ago. I respect them over a poisonous snake any more! At least I can see the snakes.
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I like they Sawyer's stuff been using it for years and it works great.
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I use the spray products because of the convenience. But whether you spray or soak, I think permethrin should be just as much a part of your equipment as your bow.
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Just treated mine, my wife's and daughter's clothing in perpetration for TBG Northern Zone shoot this weekend. I got diagnosed with the "Alph Gel" meat allergy last August after getting a tick bite & don't want the family to experience it.
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As I understand it, there are two (maybe more) formulations of Permethrin.
One is for use on animals; sold at Co-ops,TSC and veterinary supply houses. This is a different product than the formulation that is used to treat your clothing.
I posted a link on here once that listed all the hazards of using the animal formulation on your clothing. Its a definite no no.
I'll see if I can find that link again.
Trying to save a buck or two and endangering your health is not worth it. It might be worth buying the formulation meant to treat clothing.
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That is why it is important to follow the dilution ratios. I think you can get 35%-50% solutions for agri uses and outdoor insect control. Wayyy too potent.
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I mix my own home brew using DurationTM Permethrin 10% Concentrate from Amazon which claims to be the only EPA registered permethrin 10% concentrate approved for use on clothing. It is intended for use as a soak but I delute it to .5% and use it as a spray like Sawyers
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"the stuff works and is not toxic to humans"
Non toxic to humans is a big leap. Anything that can discourage something as primitive as a tick in such minute amounts is a dangerous substance. There is a reason why this stuff can only be used as a clothing treatment and NOT on human skin. Please use as directed.
It used to be sold at Wally World in spray cans called REPEL but the same named product sold there now only contains DEET. I am glad to hear it is still available and am a big fan because it works. I hate tick bites.
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I have just bought and used the generic RID spray. Check the pharmacy section. It has worked for me on multiple trips to Texas and keeping the ticks off in the Black Hills.
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Originally posted by Shaun:
"the stuff works and is not toxic to humans"
Non toxic to humans is a big leap. Anything that can discourage something as primitive as a tick in such minute amounts is a dangerous substance. There is a reason why this stuff can only be used as a clothing treatment and NOT on human skin. Please use as directed.
It used to be sold at Wally World in spray cans called REPEL but the same named product sold there now only contains DEET. I am glad to hear it is still available and am a big fan
because it works. I hate tick bites.
X2
I treat my clothes with Sawyers brand in the pump sprayer. It's not that expensive and works very well. It's funny to drop a tick on your treated pant leg and watch the little boogers ball up, roll around, fall off and walk on about their merry way.
I have a friend, a game warden, that urinated blood for about 6 months from misuse of this product. He did say he never had a tick bite though.
Choice is yours
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Here's what I use, from your local pet supply store. I mix 1 oz to 12 oz of water to spray on clothes. It works!!!
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b147/fireman_3311/BDD826C8-34B3-40B2-B611-B77D0F936785-4814-00000759AE74408F_zps4830f5db.jpg)
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My point was to be careful. The formulation for animals should not be applied to clothing. No matter how you dilute it. Its also petroleum based, and smells like it.
There was some poor guy on here a few months ago that was spraying his mattress with it.
Neurotoxins are known carcinogins and have long term consequences.
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Insecticides are serious business. My uncle was a game warden in Ga. and died from use of some sort of tick or mosquito spray.
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Originally posted by Tall Paul:
My point was to be careful. The formulation for animals should not be applied to clothing. No matter how you dilute it. Its also petroleum based, and smells like it.
There was some poor guy on here a few months ago that was spraying his mattress with it.
Neurotoxins are known carcinogins and have long term consequences.
I really didn't know there was a difference?!! I figured Permithrin was Permithrin!
I just ordered the 10% Duration mix from Amazon!!!
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Permethrin IS permethrin. There are two grades, pharmaceutical and technical. The pharmaceutical has higher purity and is used for topical treatment of scabies, and head lice, etc. The technical grade is lower purity (about 94%), which is what is used for the animal sprays and is what I used for treating my clothing. Once it has dried, the clothing is not toxic or irritating to humans.
While it is a neurotoxin, it is inactivated by the skin and the EPA does not classify it as a carcinogen.
It does have a strong odor when first applied, but it dissipates (I don't know about deer, however).
As far as spraying a mattress, it is commonly used for treating for bed bugs.
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While I am far from an expert on Permethrin, a little internet search shows that it comes in different FORMULATIONS.
Permethrin may be Permethrin.
But as I understand it, and I may be wrong, they formulate it different ways. One way is a petroleum base, which is used to treat cattle, horses, etc. Thats not the stuff to put on your clothes.
But theres another formulation that made to stick to clothing. Thats what Sawyers uses.
Don't get me wrong; I think its great stuff and is a lot safer than tick bites and all the nasty stuff they carry. I'm going to buy some Sawyers this weekend at Dicks Sporting Goods.
I'm just saying that if you're gonna mix up your own stuff, don't use the animal formulation. Besides, you don't want your hunting clothes to smell like petroleum anyway.
I read earlier on the internet (the source of all wisdom and never incorrect) that it is a carcinogen. I could be wrong. I just know that if a tick crawls on treated clothing, that its not repeled, it DIES. Thats some deadly stuff. Half the folks in this country have cancer as it is.
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I have seen the spray under the trade names of Permanone and Duranon. It is quick and easy as well as being effective. It is in potencies appropriate for human use. Don't leave home without it.
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Sooo..., possibility of cancer, or possibility of Lymes, Lone Star, Rocky Mounted Spotted Fever, et al....
I'll take my chances with the Permethrin!
Hate those blood sucker!!!
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Permethrin isn't per se dangerous to humans, but it can kill your cats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin
Use ONLY pharmaceutical grade for this and it should be just fine. Otherwise, your pets might pay as much as you.
Caught Lyme already this year, will be treating mine ASAP.
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No one is saying "don't use permethrin".
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And neither am I. In fact, I very much endorse permethrin, but I have two cats that I would be heartbroken if they died from it. There's very little a vet can do if one is poisoned. I'm genuinely sorry if I came across saying something different.
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I'm sorry halfseminole; I wasn't replying to you. I was referring to the post by rbcorbitt where he seems to think you have to choose between cancer and ticks.
But I think Permethrin, if not used correctly, is definitely dangerous to humans.
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I believe Permethrin can also be used to treat wool clothes for moths.
Keith
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Permethrin is good stuff to keep the ticks away, for sure! Read about the mode of action - it IS really deadly stuff BUT primarily to cold blooded organisms (ie insects, fish), not nearly as potent to warm blooded animals (except cats). Read the instructions and make your choice, be careful. I just bought a qt. of the 10% from TSC for animal use. Diluted up a 0.5% solution (1 to 20) in a hand pump sprayer to knock down ticks and fleas in the dog pen. Also sprayed my log cabin down to control the carpenter bees (as they say "with extreme predjudice" ;) ). Then I put a pair of pants and a long sleeved shirt on the fence and sprayed it down, let it dry in the sun, viola - tick free woods gear. Not much odor that I can tell - but where I hunt you don't deal with ticks during deer season much anyway - more of a spring/summer thing.
Read the instructions and make your choice. I work with chemicals for a living and I feel confident in my choice.
High concentrations of this stuff used inappropriately can be dangerous, but so can high concentrations of donuts used inappropriately - use common sense!
This is the best stuff ever for ticks, and with todays tick diseases you cant be to careful.
R
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Ryan - What is the trade name of the stuff at TSC?
Thanx
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I have used Permethrin since we first got it in military in early 90s....biggest learning curve was making sure my troops sprayed it on their clothes and let it dry and did not think it was same as deep woods off.
it is the best thing to keep ticks, fleas, biting flies, etc off your body besides the Thermacell in my opinion.
I can treat my pants, shirts, and hats in Summer....and it will typically last the entire early season with our deer season starting 15 August. No smell once dry....take off, air and sun clean and wear again. Will even last through a couple washings if needed.
Here in Lowcountry if you dont use something...you will be carried away. :)
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Based on the TSC brand of 10% permethrin (which is advertised for barnyard use, not for people use) the dilution factor for spraying (not dipping) appears to be 8 oz./6.25 gal. of water. That translates to 1.28 oz. per gal. of water (thats 1.28 oz. per 128 oz. of water) or 1 oz. P per.78 gals. of water. Even if this stuff is safe for humans (which is still in doubt) the dilution rate that some of you folks use seems to be WAY over what would be recommended, even for barnyard use.
Neurotoxins are nothing to fool with and based on a past study have reportedly had some connection to development of Parkinson's Disease, though not totally verified.
If planning to use the TSC-type barnyard permethin it's probably best to call the manufacturer (# is on the product) and ASK if using it to treat people clothing is safe.
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So with all the discussion and possible dangers I am not sure why guys just don't buy the Clothes spray-on stuff. Its not that expensive, works great, and rarely do you get anything that lasts most of the needed season for $10-15. Gosh- you and a buddy can spend that much on one trip to McDs.
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Shaun, all the Walmarts down here sell it.
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Except for fireman_3311 picture, you guys have me confused... Don't know what brand of Permethrin, at what store (whether TSC or Walmart) to buy now...
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I've been watchin this thread. Swear by all the commercially available sprays and have watched ticks crawl the advertised 6" over my pants and just fall off dead.
Bought the TSC stuff...some thread last year said 1oz to 32Oz of water...uh-huh-uh! :eek:
The commercial pump or pressurized spray cans area .05% solution. Some math whiz shared that is 1 TEASPOON to 32 oz spray bottle of water! NOT 1 oz if you want .05% from a 10% solution.
I had made a solution 5X the recommended .05% using a petroleum based carrier product for barns and farm animals!
My skin reeked even after letting it dry well but I sweat doing some work on friend's land! I showered quickly!
Used that solution to kill ants around the house! Dead bang!
There is some solution for humans, but with the S&H off one of the big market sites, it gets pricey. What I have even diluted to .05% still STINKS! Even dried outside for 24 hrs!
I'll use it for summer work, but I'm buying the pre-mixed commercial stuff to hunt. That dries odorless which I want for deer hunting. The health side of it is still a question with the TSC stuff, but I'm not a fan personally... that petroleum smell tells me all is not as it should be!
FWIW...
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this is what i have and use,......
(http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae69/arrow30_photos/S1000001-3.jpg~original) (http://s958.photobucket.com/user/arrow30_photos/media/S1000001-3.jpg.html)
(http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae69/arrow30_photos/S1000002-1.jpg~original) (http://s958.photobucket.com/user/arrow30_photos/media/S1000002-1.jpg.html)
(http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae69/arrow30_photos/S1000004-2.jpg~original) (http://s958.photobucket.com/user/arrow30_photos/media/S1000004-2.jpg.html)
lost my instructions, so had to look up mixing ratios, this tme i wrote on bottle. but i mix closer to 2 oz. per gal.
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I use the Sawyer Duranon Permethrin in spray...works great with little to no odor.
(http://duranon.com/images/dtrs.jpg)
http://duranon.com/
0.5% solution used for human clothing....97% effective on mosquitoes and 100% effective on ticks.
Use with confidence....
http://www.scs-mall.com/Coulston-Duranon-Odorless-Tick_Mosquito-Repellent/productinfo/DTRS/
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Doc nock - every bottle of commercial clothing spray I've looked at said 0.5%, not 0.05%...see Brocks post about Sawyer.
I do my own math :)
R
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Went into a Southern States store and asked the clerk if they had any Permethrin and she asked me what it was used for. I told her that it is a tick repellent and you can even wash your clothes in it to repel ticks.
She just looked at me with a blank stare and said that she had never heard of it.
Doug
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Ryan is so very correct! why I don't do my own math....05 solution is .5%... Doh!
Get it right if you're using the stuff from the feed store.
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Thanx for the pix guys, exactly what I was looking for...(I must be a little slow...8^))
Thanx again
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are my numbers right?.....you got me thinking and thats not good...im not good with percentages.??
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Bryant.
You mix in way larger quantities. And when it comes to something like "neurotoxin" I'm not being accountable for nuttin when it comes to math and percentages for anyone else!
The Gordon labeled bottle I got at a PA TSC, is not what you posted. My bottle smells like kerosene! When mixed, still smells like it...dried, still smells like it.
I used Sawyers, Repel and others in both pump sprayers and pressurized cans. Always an odor till it line dries...then can't smell a thing.
Maybe what I got at our local TSC is from a different supplier?
First I ever saw in a sporting good store had TWO different cans...ONE for your dog...one for people's clothing! Very clearly marked differently but that was a long time ago! No clue if the dog spray was stronger.
Since my bottle clearly said not to premix in quantities larger than can be used and not to store mixed (no clear explanation "why?")I just do the 1 Teaspoon to 32oz.
Now we're both confused! I read my Sawyers can and it's .5% like Ryan said...but my math person told me the mix from a 10% solution is one teaspoon (5 teaspoons to an ounce) per 32oz of H20... but danged now I don't know which end is up.
all I can say for sure is that I might use my TSC bought concentrate for outings and shoots and turkey, but it still has a kerosene odor, so no way it's going on my hunting duds for deer season!
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Tall Paul - just a quick correction, the animal variation does not normally have petroleum byproducts in it. The petroleum is normally found in the higher concentration pesticide version used for spraying your house. At Tractor Supply there is a product called Happy Jack Kennel dip that is water based and is what I use on my clothes. I have both and there is a noticeable difference between the two formulations. FYI the petroleum product will smell for months as it doesn't truly dry for a good while.
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Amen to the smell, Jake! I thought mine dried ok... but then....
Happy Jack, huh? MIght take a 2nd shot at it. What I have kills ants really well though around the house! LOL
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From Walmart
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/dudleyg/CD9F4D33-A189-4EFE-B411-4AAC9EF81A23-495-0000005BFF74FB31_zps5da59094.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/dudleyg/media/CD9F4D33-A189-4EFE-B411-4AAC9EF81A23-495-0000005BFF74FB31_zps5da59094.jpg.html)
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Originally posted by Doc Nock:
Amen to the smell, Jake! I thought mine dried ok... but then....
Happy Jack, huh? MIght take a 2nd shot at it. What I have kills ants really well though around the house! LOL
Yeah try it out. I had to learn the hard way my first time doing this rodeo. From what I have read, the petroleum is added to pesticide versions because it allows the permethrin to persist longer and be more effective against insects by not letting it dry and forming a oily film. This is why the pest control people can come spray your house only twice a year or so. A film is left by the petroleum so the permethrin is present and not dried for a much longer time period than when in a water based solution. For ticks though it is fine if the solution dries as the permethrin will still cause the ticks to die.
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Gregg,
That is what I have been buying and using. No guess work and it is not that expensive!!
Frank X.
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This is why I use this....the prices have gone up some, I think this info is about 3yrs old, but both products have gone up and the info is still relevant.
If I step out the door I get ticks..so I use quiet a bit of it and it makes a difference cost wise.
DurationTM Permethrin 10% Concentrate from Amazon which claims to be the only EPA registered permethrin 10% concentrate approved for use on clothing. It is intended for use as a soak but I deluted it to .5% and use it as a spray like Sawyers. It is $30 for 8 oz. Mixed 20 to 1 it will make 168 oz of .5% spray or equal to 7 of the 24 oz bottles of Sawyers. Thats $30 vs $90.
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Gregg,
Yup... this year saw it on "SALE" for $17.96! Was about $3 more regular price! Seriously??
I end up with several ounces I can't get cause the pick up tube isn't long enough in those pumps... I've had them leak all over my hand, too! YUK!
Whenever I see the "commercial" stuff on sale, I grab it... but will seek out this water based stuff as well...
I could use another head anyway cause sometimes I don't use mine so good...so if that is a side effect, bring it!
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I prefer to use a synthetic cousin of Permethrin which is Bifentrin found in a product by the name of Talstar. Bifenthrin works by the same method as Permethrin but is less toxic to humans as far as skin contact or inhilation.
Spray it on your clothes or wash your clothes in it. If any spray gets on your skin it will cause just a very minor irritation but do no long term harm. It's main purpose is a herbal insecticide as a spray but it very useful in the repelling and destruction of most insects in general.
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/bifgen.html#symptoms
Doug
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Interesting, I've always mixed/diluted the Permethrin. Where do you find Bifenthrin? Thanks!
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Most all Southern States stores carry it as well as any feed and seed store. I think Walmart carries it too.
http://www.southernstates.com/catalog/g-126-talstar.aspx
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Thanks dougedwards!
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Just found the Happy Jack Kennel Dip that LaBauve suggested. My local TSC can't keep it in stock so had to wait for the smaller 8oz bottle.
Posted a different thread and got some good information from some vets about dilution rates...
seems that 2ml to 680 ml of water is about .5% like the commercial stuff.
That came out to about 4/10 teaspoon to 23 oz of water.
Everyone should research this to their own comfort level cause this is a nasty neurotoxin we're playing with. Exercise caution and clean measuring instruments VERY well before using back in the house of for anything associated with food!
Mine will be retired from the kitchen unless I find something to measure in ml.