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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Rick Richard on June 22, 2013, 03:00:00 PM
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Going on a Wyoming elk hunt beginning September11th and need recommendations on temperature rating of a sleeping bag to bring. Keep in mind, I will be staying in a outfitter canvas tent. Currently have a 40 degree bag....will that be adequate?
Thanks in advance!
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I would think something in the 20 degree neighborhood would be a safer bet, or at least some kind of liner or over bag to boost the rating.
Hard to beat the Kelty cosmic 20 degree down bag for a little over $100 for a cheap do it all bag.
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The odds of freezing your tutu off in a 40 degree bag are excellent for Wyoming, not just in September but any time in the high country. For my September elk hunts, I use a bag rated at 15 degrees, and sometimes I'm still sleeping in long johns. Temps well below freezing are common that time of year, and if it is warm, you can always unzip the bag.
As an example, today (June 22), it is currently 49 degrees here in Buffalo, which is at an elevation of about 4900 feet. Might be a bit more nippy where the elk live.
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I'd recommend a bag as mentioned above and then a bag liner, gives you some options for layering that way and then top it off with a good warm stocking cap to sleep in, especially if your thinning in the hair department like me.
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Canvas tent with stove, you should be fine.
No stove, be prepared to sleep in sweats or go with 15 - 20 degree bag
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Personally, I figure bags are overrated by at least 15-20 degrees. Mountain temps in September can easily be well below freezing, so I would want nothing less than a 15 degree bag - preferably even lower. I like to be warm when I sleep!
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Your 40 degree bag won't cut it. I always take a 20 degree bag and a wool blanket on Sept. high country hunts. Also stocking hat and poly long under wear.
Packed into the Eagle Caps one Sept. and it was 70 degrees. Woke up in the morning to 2 inches of snow and 22 degrees.
Good luck
John
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When you guys are talking high country, what elevations are you referring to?
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Marmot is a quality brand. lots of choices.
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Wiggy's 0 degree (f) Super Light bag for an all around bag. Not too heavy to carry and if it's performance is exceptional. (personal experience) If it is too warm just leave it open a little.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: http://wiggys.com/category.cfm?Category=6
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The mountains can easily drop into the 20's at night that time of year. But more importantly you should question what your personal comfort rating is? Is your bedroom normally too warm or too cold? Adjust your sleeping bag rating accordingly. Remember it is far easier to cool down rather than to warm up.
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Check the auction site for the US ARMY sleep system it is 4 components a light bag a heavier bag a gor-tex cover and stuff sack its modular and the bags can be used individually or combined and it compresses to size of a soccer ball. You can't go wrong with it.
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+1 on Wiggys... great bag
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Thanks Guys for the recommendations!
I ended up purchasing a Marmont Trestles in the 15 degree rating.
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Everyone can tolerate a different "sleeping warmth" but overall the bag rating I think or way off. Meaning they keep you alive at what ever temp the bag rating is rather than toasty warm :D
I just now seen you got a Marmont Trestless 15. It's a great bag for durability and price and It's held up fine for me for the last 9 or 10 years. But for me it's not warm enough and I'd consider it a 40 degree bag. But I have "survived" down to low 20's with it in a tent with no stove.
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Get a decent bag, but hear this. . the other side. I bought a really nice bag from REI. It is awesome, and so hot I have yet to be able to spend the night zipped up in it. There is such a thing as too much !
ChuckC
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Those bag raters must polar bears. My zero degree bag is only comfortable down to about twenty five.
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Bags have general ratings but every person and their sensitivity to cold is different...as are the conditions such as dry or wet cold for your choice in bag fill material. Most are rated for short periods at that rating but some things you can do to help the situation that makes a significant difference.
I personally like 0* bags for all around use...cold weather to 15*F and up they are very comfortable....over 50*F I sleep on top under an old poncho liner. I have a Mountain Hardware and love it...one of my best all around bags and I have used coleman, every military bag made in a 20 year career....and this MH with synthetic fill has been my best all around for warmth, durability, lightness and able to DRY QUICKLY if wet...big issue if in areas that have rain or if traveling on water by canoe. I have dried out my bag completely by fire one evening after a torrential downpour caught us unguarded with my bag airing over a line when out hunting and it was clear skies...except for one little cell that went over camp. Temps that night were 35* and 3 hours around campfire with bag over lap facing fire and rotating dried it completely.
Some things I do...based on experience and learned in survival schools I attended in military:
- I either sleep naked or in underwear as any clothing you have against your skin (except silk or pure synthetics) will hold moisture that comes from your body during night and chill you down.
- I wear wool socks on my feet...and a wool or synthetic beanie on my head while sleeping. Keeps extremities warm and vastly improves comfort....put on dry socks though before bed not ones you wore in boots all day.
- Carry a box of the small hand warmers you get from walmart in orange packs. An hour before bed throw a single one down in foot well of bag...you will be so toasty after you get in and zip up tight that you may have to vent the bag during night all the way down to the teens.
- If using an self inflating mattress pad like my Thermarest XL (extra long and wide)....just as you enter bed...blow the final air into it for firmness...the warmth of your breath will warm inside of pad and help keep cold from you better as well until you are settled.
- big thing...go piss before you go to bed...or keep a gatorade jar in tent...having to get out of bag and go visit the wood line away from camp will chill you and cause you to have to warm up again. If you do leave bag...be sure to close it up as it will keep your body heat in surprisingly well until you return.
I have been in -5* with a 0* bag and been toasty all night following these rules. Try them out and sure you will find similar results. Good Luck.
as far as bags...any of the big names known for expedition use will work...Wiggys, Big Bertha, Marmot, Mountain Hardware, North Face or Sierra Designs....get a copy of Campnoor, Backcountry.com ...or go to MooseJaw (http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/search_-40-0-Degree-Sleeping-Bags____) Moosejaw.com and they have last years models on sale and the savings can be significant.
One last thing...get one of the right size. Get too short and restrictive and you will never be comfortable and get it too large and it takes longer to warm...much like tent sizes...smaller in colder weather to help hold heat nearer your body some.
I am 6'3 and 255 and make sure I get one large enough that I can have a bit of room at bottom of bag to put my jeans and shirt for next day to keep them warm....and enough shoulder room to rotate and turn on my side if I want while sleeping. Here is my bag...but is only one of many many options out there...but pay attention to the dimensions as well.
http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/product_Mountain-Hardwear-Lamina-0-Sleeping-Bag_10207862_10208_10000001_-1_
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Oops! double. . .
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Great info Ron Herman. Also- i realize bags lose their insulating properties over time- How long do you think your bag will last (Nights of use I guess)?
Also for all- The Military modular seems to be a really warm system and affordable- HOWEVER, it weighs 10# or so. Pretty heavy for backpacking.
Dan
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I have had my MH for 5 years and use it average of 20 nights a year...I hang it to air dry and only put in stuff sack of needed otherwise it stays in mesh bag to keep the loft. If I get another 5 years out of it then I think it is worth it for the $200+ spent for good sleep on chilly nights in backcountry. I have shivered all night in other bags enough (Washington Cascades, Bosnia, Croatia, Kuwait, etc (yes desert gets below freezing at night sometimes...plus going from 120 to 70 degrees your body gets acclimated and it feels like freezing as it is all relative), etc)
Been very happy with the overall lightness, comfort and warmth....now I only use the handwarmer packs if I need them...and start with the socks and stocking cap and 90% of time that is enough.
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I like Ron's information.
My cold-weather backcountry bed consists of 3 components: A LuxuryLite UL cot keeps me about 4" above hard ground and is incomparable for comfort. On the cot goes my Exped Downmat 9 which provides about 3.5" of down insulation beneath my body, plus the comfort of an air mattress. My bag is a Western Mountaineering Sequoia GWS which comes standard with 36 ounces of 850 fill-wt down in the 6'-6" model. It's rated to 5F, standard. I ordered mine custom with 4 extra ounces of down, which likely takes the bag rating to well below zero. When placed on top of the Downmat and its additional warmth, I've got the closest thing to a true furnace. I'm often venting on cold nights in central Alaska.
A thin warm beanie will add an estimated 5-10 degrees of comfort to your bag...especially if you're not sporting a thick mop up top.
I always sleep in long underwear, socks and a beanie. I do it mostly to protect my down bag from skin oil and other contaminants which will reduce a bag's loft over time. I also much prefer jumping up at 5am when I have the first basic layer in place. Don't do this in cheap long underwear. Use the best synthetics or merinos.
I absolutely concur with using a pee bottle to eliminate the jump-and-run at 3am. Without going graphic, I've figured out how to safely (and cleanly) take care of that job while remaining comfortably in my sleeping bag. No more night trotting.
Do sleeping bag maintenance in camp. Open it up every day before leaving to hunt. On sunny days, hang it outside (inverted) on a paracord clothesline to totally dry the insulation or fill.
You spend almost 1/3 of any hunting or camping trip relying on your bed system. It makes no sense (to me) to go cheap or uncomfortable to save a few bucks. Buy good stuff and give it the care it requires.
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A good sleeping bag will last for many, many years IF and only IF it is properly cared for. Most bags should never be stored compressed and/or folded up. This is really critical for a down-filled bag. Most folks also forget to keep the bag as clean as possible both on the inside and outside. This is why lots of experienced campers use a bag liner. Bags can and should be properly washed / cleaned every now and then. The proper method depends on the fill type. Also, don't try to force a zipper. This is usually the #1 failure. Make sure the zipper has a clear path to use.
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I Always Use A Liner Made From A Sraight Sheet, Folded Longwise And Sewn Across The Bottom And Up About One Foot. It Really Keeps Your Sweat, Etc Off The Bag.
Chuckc
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Definitely see if the wall tent will have a stove burning all night. If someone's feeding that stove you'll be sweating in a 0 bag. I have a 10 and 40 degree bag and a 30 degree quilt. I can bring the quilt along with one of the other bags if I'm not packing the gear in too far. I use the quilt as an over bag. It will drop the temp rating of the main bag quite a lot. You can get a nice inexpensive quilt from Enlightened Equipment. Take a look at his RevelationX quilt. You can get a 30 or 40 degree quilt for your 40 degree bag and drop the temp to 20 pretty easily. Then, just sleep in whichever one works best for your situation (stove or no stove). That quilt gets pretty small and is light so it won't take up too much room.
Oh, and bags are one place where you get what you pay for.
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I would add that Western Mountaineering bag ratings are conservative,compared to many others.I have a 0 degree Kodiak and it is really too warm for September.I'm not a hot sleeper either.I could easily get by with one of their 20-25 degree bags.I believe my next bag will be their Alpinlite.Like the Kodiak,it is a light mummy,but fuller cut than most.I find them more comfortable these days than the slimmer mummies.
I also use long under wear and a beanie to bump up the warmth for colder weather.I also only buy a bag with a full length zipper.This may add a couple ounces but is important on warmer nights and increases the temperature range and versatility of the bag.
I like a bag that is good for September but can work in the high country for Summer backpacking trips and with the addition of some clothes,also work in October.
A good,breathable tent that you can zip up to cut the wind can add 5-10 degrees to your comfort level.
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Feathered Friends are another made in USA sleeping bag that are top tier along with the Western Mountaineering bags. They are both expensive but will last a lifetime if properly cared for. They are down but also have water repellent shells.
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I absolutely agree with the above comments. In particular, JimB's statement that WM bag ratings are conservative has been my experience as well. I was amazed when I received my WM Sequoia and tossed it on the floor. I've never seen a physically-light bag loft so aggressively. I theorize that these companies like Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends and a few others...are not competing for volume sales or market share. They use the best materials they can get, and they use plenty of high-end goose down. No shortcuts in these bags.
Incidentally, I had a Cabela's Alaskan Guide down bag rated at 0F. It was plenty warm, and this tapered (long size) bag weighed #6-9oz. I don't think for a minute it would have suited me in true zero temps. My WM Sequoia (which replaced the Cabela's bag) is also a long tapered bag and weighs right at #3-13oz. It is way warmer, weighs less, and compresses to probably 60 or 70% the volume of my previous Cabela's bag.