Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Pivo on July 15, 2013, 07:43:00 PM

Title: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Pivo on July 15, 2013, 07:43:00 PM
How many people are shooting 250 grains up front. Stu's calculator shows them making an arrow very weak. My arrows are at least 31" and I would have to go to a CE 350 or GT 7595 by the calculator from a 53lb bow. thanks
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: awbowman on July 15, 2013, 07:47:00 PM
I am at 225 up front for my carbon setup.   I shoot a longbow so I need to lean towards weak spine.  I shoot 50#s @26"

3555s, 29" with 225 up front
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Jake Fr on July 15, 2013, 07:47:00 PM
I shoot 250 up front on full length gt 55-75 out of my 55# thunderchild and 58# wildhorse creek bow and have no problems at all and im drawing  30" and the hit like a freight train
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Sean B on July 15, 2013, 07:51:00 PM
shooting them on both my GT 55-75, and my CE 250's 29" 55# Widows, they bare shaft perfect for me
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Dave Pagel on July 15, 2013, 07:53:00 PM
I shoot at least that much on most of my carbon setups.  I draw just under 30 inches and in my 50-53# bows I shoot 500s with a 50 grain insert and 200 grain broadhead.  In my 55#-60# bows I shoot 400s with a 50 grain insert and a 250 grain head.

I don't go near as point heavy on my aluminum or wood setups.

D.P.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: WESTBROOK on July 15, 2013, 07:55:00 PM
There's only one way to find out...screw'em in and shoot.

How long do your arrows need to be?

Eric
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Gdpolk on July 15, 2013, 08:05:00 PM
I shoot a 53lbs longbow with 100 grain inserts, 125 grain tips, and 30 grains of footing with 5575 Gold Tip Traditional's.  I had to cut off just under 1/4" to get them bare-shafting well.  Now my bareshafts, field points, Judo points, small game heads, and broadheads are all going to the same place.

I took the setup out stump shooting with one of my best friends today.  After slaying all the stumps we moved on to hunting for insects.  I killed a butterfly, a red wasp, a dragon fly, and some sort of stinging insect that was about 2.5" long.  There were several other suspected kills but only 4 confirmed.  Here are pictures of the last two confirmed kills, a blue dragonfly and the top half of that big, unidentified stinging insect...
    (http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee146/gdpolk/Photo0323_zps74da497e.jpg)    (http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee146/gdpolk/Photo0324_zps71baf5c2.jpg)
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Mike Bolin on July 15, 2013, 08:08:00 PM
I have hesitated posting on this topic in the past, but here goes! Basically going to be trial and error. I am shooting longbows in the lower 50#@28" range and I have 350 gr.(250 gr. point and 100 gr. brass adapter) on an Easton 400. Several have told me that it ain't possible for me to achieve good arrow flight with this combination. I started with a bare shaft 400 @ 29" and standard aluminum adapter. Kept adding point weight, changing adapters until I got as close to perfect flight as I could and that's what I ended up with. Release, of course plays a big part. I had some 75/95s and I had 400 grains on the front of them and still didn't get good flight. Some will say I'm nuts or that I don't know how to tune, but after 25 yrs. of doing this stuff I know what works for me. Good luck! Mike
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: rolltidehunter on July 15, 2013, 08:08:00 PM
im shooting 300. 100 grain instert and 200 grain BH. with footing
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Easykeeper on July 15, 2013, 08:17:00 PM
250 grain points on a 31" .340 ACC (3-60) out of a 50#@29" recurve.  My draw is a hair over 29".
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: maineac on July 15, 2013, 08:26:00 PM
I shoot 250 gr. out of several bows and draw weights.  I have tuned the arrows to different lengths for the different bows.  I tune until the bare shafts fly like darts.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: maineac on July 15, 2013, 08:26:00 PM
I shoot 250 gr. out of several bows and draw weights.  I have tuned the arrows to different lengths for the different bows.  I tune until the bare shafts fly like darts.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Aggie1993 on July 15, 2013, 08:47:00 PM
You know I do;).  There's too many variables to consider when using his computations. It'll get you in the ball park and its been useful to me once I figure out the best arrow via trial and error.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: ThePushArchery on July 15, 2013, 08:54:00 PM
100gn brass insert with 300 gn field tip. 400 grains total up front, shooting 51# at my draw.

55/75 gold tip traditionals, bare shaft like darts.

Love it
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Bldtrailer on July 15, 2013, 09:09:00 PM
175 tip 50 grain insert 25 grains footing on 3555gt trads at 29 inch 53 @27 all 4 of my recurve bows
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: m midd on July 15, 2013, 09:12:00 PM
I used to shoot 250 up front on my 55-60 cedars.
I was shooting them out of my 63# GN. They shot very well
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Richie on July 15, 2013, 09:31:00 PM
I shoot a 28" 3555 gt. w/225 gr. up front from a 50# longbow 45# @ my draw.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: ishoot4thrills on July 15, 2013, 09:42:00 PM
I shoot with 250 gr. up front: 100 gr. in brass insert alone. I use .500 spine carbon arrows and they fly perfectly. See my specs below in my signature.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Friend on July 15, 2013, 10:06:00 PM
Seems that ~15#'s underspined has personally been the magic value on numerous bows and various arrows of which I have tuned.

...Arrows ranging from 137 gns to 400 gns up front...
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: slivrslingr on July 15, 2013, 10:19:00 PM
Full length GT 55/75's with 260grn. point, plus footing and insert out of a Toelke Whip 46#@28", drawn to 30 1/2".  With all due respect to Stu and his calculator, unless you are lucky and hit the magic numbers with it, the calculator is only a starting point.  There are still many variables that the calculator doesn't take into account.  It's a great place to get started, but don't take the results as gospel.  JMHO.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Hummer3T on July 15, 2013, 10:21:00 PM
I shoot 100 grain weighted insert with 220 grain broadhead, so 320 in total from my 55lbs bow.  This set up shoots great with my 30 inch patriot missile 45-60 arrows, one spine higher than recommended.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Trumpkin the Dwarf on July 15, 2013, 10:33:00 PM
I shoot 365 up front, on full length GT 7595's at 68 lbs(I draw 32"). My bow is cut 1/8" shy of center, and it tuned up really nicely. Arrow tuning is like black magic if you ask me.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: on July 15, 2013, 10:33:00 PM
I shoot a 50# @ my DL longbow. I shoot almost full length (I cut 3/8" off) GT 55/75's with a 100gr brass insert and a 150gr point/broadhead (250gr total). These arrows tune perfectly and I have taken a lot of crittersvwith them.

Bisch
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: BowHunterGA on July 15, 2013, 11:12:00 PM
I am shooting between 250 and 350 grains up front depending on the bow and arrow combination I am shooting.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: MnFn on July 15, 2013, 11:12:00 PM
I am working at tuning some arrows from L82hunt. They are showing a lot of promise with my 56# @27" Pronghorn, (I draw 28") but I am not done yet. .340 Axis with 100grn insert, footed and 145 grn head for about 260. I still need a little more weight up front. They are about 28.75" long. They group nice already though.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: NBK on July 15, 2013, 11:20:00 PM
For several years I've been shooting 300 up front, 100 adapter and 200 head on a 400 spine carbon cut to 30.5 out of low 50's longbows.  Last Thursday I got to shoot a bit with Schlaggerman (guys the best trad shot I personally know) and he gave me a 500 spine carbon with standard adapter and 150 point to try...  Arrows flew great, and grouped really well at 20 yards on the first round.  Overall they seemed to fly more consistently than my own arrows.  Gonna go against the tide and my next arrows are gonna be less FOC and lighter spine and weight.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Mr. fingers on July 15, 2013, 11:23:00 PM
I'm shooting MFX 400 at 28.5 100 brass insert 165 head with a 2in. Footing so around 285 out of a Bob.lee Hunter at 47lbs at 28 in. I get perfect.bullet holes.through paper and bareshafts group with Fletched arrows as well as feild points with broadheads. Took me a.long time to.figure.out that that much weight is ok. And my penetration is amazing.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Bill Carlsen on July 16, 2013, 07:36:00 AM
My 55# Max I limbs likes Axis 400's with 150 grains up front. It will shoot 340's extremely well with 250 up front. I have some decisions to make.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: 1/4 away on July 16, 2013, 09:11:00 AM
I'm shoting 250 gr up front on my GT trad 3555's cut 29 3/4".
I'm  shooting Magnus 4 blade Stingers with a 100 gr brass insert with the 150 gr head. This set up shoots great out of my 49# and 54# bows.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Sharpster on July 16, 2013, 11:34:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mike Bolin:
I have hesitated posting on this topic in the past, but here goes! Basically going to be trial and error. I am shooting longbows in the lower 50#@28" range and I have 350 gr.(250 gr. point and 100 gr. brass adapter) on an Easton 400. Several have told me that it ain't possible for me to achieve good arrow flight with this combination. I started with a bare shaft 400 @ 29" and standard aluminum adapter. Kept adding point weight, changing adapters until I got as close to perfect flight as I could and that's what I ended up with. Release, of course plays a big part. I had some 75/95s and I had 400 grains on the front of them and still didn't get good flight. Some will say I'm nuts or that I don't know how to tune, but after 25 yrs. of doing this stuff I know what works for me. Good luck! Mike
Agreed! I think that when shooting carbons and trying to obtain a relatively high FOC, many of us have been conditioned to believe that we need to beef up the spines of our shafts. My limited experimenting seems to indicate that this is not necessarilly true. In fact, I've found that fairly weak spined carbon shafts can handle one heck of a lot of up-front weight and still fly exceptionally well.

Ron
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Tajue17 on July 16, 2013, 12:33:00 PM
out of my St Charles thunderbird 48@28, one of the arrow set-ups it bare shafts perfect is a 29" heritage 90 with stock insert and 250gr head, 4" fletch stock nock,,, I draw to about 27 1/2 with this bow.. this setup fly's perfect!
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Danny Rowan on July 16, 2013, 02:12:00 PM
I shoot AD Trads, AD Hammerheads and AD Hammerhead lites, all are 30.5" with 100 gr brass insert and 300 gr point. This is out of 55#-62# bows at my draw length of 29". As long as I do my part correctly, they all go where they are supposed to.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Kris on July 16, 2013, 02:19:00 PM
At least 250 gr. up front more commonly, 350 to 400 grns. w/inserts etc.  I shoot 400's from my 51# and 54# both at 28" w/29.5" arrows.  ACS longbows.  I also shoot 340's but think the 400's shoot better all things considered.  I also shoot Goldtip 75/95's which handle this EFoC very well.

Kris
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: bruinman on July 16, 2013, 02:29:00 PM
290 grains up front on my Gt 5575s out of a 50 pound recurve and 62 pound longbow. Arrows are 29 1/2 inches long.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: JamesKerr on July 16, 2013, 02:42:00 PM
I usually shoot somewhere between 250 and 300 grains up front on all my carbon shafts. It helps get the spine right for my bows, and it gets the overall gpp where I want it.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: BowHunterGA on July 16, 2013, 05:52:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sharpster:
 
Quote
Originally posted by Mike Bolin:
I have hesitated posting on this topic in the past, but here goes! Basically going to be trial and error. I am shooting longbows in the lower 50#@28" range and I have 350 gr.(250 gr. point and 100 gr. brass adapter) on an Easton 400. Several have told me that it ain't possible for me to achieve good arrow flight with this combination. I started with a bare shaft 400 @ 29" and standard aluminum adapter. Kept adding point weight, changing adapters until I got as close to perfect flight as I could and that's what I ended up with. Release, of course plays a big part. I had some 75/95s and I had 400 grains on the front of them and still didn't get good flight. Some will say I'm nuts or that I don't know how to tune, but after 25 yrs. of doing this stuff I know what works for me. Good luck! Mike
Agreed! I think that when shooting carbons and trying to obtain a relatively high FOC, many of us have been conditioned to believe that we need to beef up the spines of our shafts. My limited experimenting seems to indicate that this is not necessarilly true. In fact, I've found that fairly weak spined carbon shafts can handle one heck of a lot of up-front weight and still fly exceptionally well.

Ron [/b]
I have experienced the same. It is my belief (and I have no data to back it up) that it is due to the fact that carbons recover from paradox so darn fast. Thoughts?
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: ishoot4thrills on July 16, 2013, 08:00:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sharpster:
 [/qb]
Agreed! I think that when shooting carbons and trying to obtain a relatively high FOC, many of us have been conditioned to believe that we need to beef up the spines of our shafts. My limited experimenting seems to indicate that this is not necessarilly true. In fact, I've found that fairly weak spined carbon shafts can handle one heck of a lot of up-front weight and still fly exceptionally well.

Ron [/QB][/QUOTE]

   :thumbsup:  Me too!
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: ishoot4thrills on July 16, 2013, 08:02:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1/4 away:
I'm shoting 250 gr up front on my GT trad 3555's cut 29 3/4".
I'm  shooting Magnus 4 blade Stingers with a 100 gr brass insert with the 150 gr head. This set up shoots great out of my 49# and 54# bows.
Dang, we're very close with our setups, other than I shoot Beman MFX Classics but in similar spine to you.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Gen273 on July 16, 2013, 08:14:00 PM
I shoot bows in the 52-57# range and I draw 28 inches. I find that a 500 spine carbon and 300 grains up front works very well. my arrow length will vary depending on the bow.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: inthere10x on July 16, 2013, 08:23:00 PM
I'm shooting Carbon Express Predator II 45/60 cut 30" long w/ 250 up front w/ stock inserts out bows in the low fifties.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Scarne on July 16, 2013, 08:29:00 PM
275 up front on 31" arrow dynamics shafts.  This gives me right at 21% FOC, a whisper quiet bow, the tightest groups I have ever shot and a flatter trajectory.
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: JimB on July 16, 2013, 10:09:00 PM
 (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/DSC_0004-2.jpg) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/jbrandenburg/media/DSC_0004-2.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: dhermon85 on July 16, 2013, 10:13:00 PM
Now that's a broadhead...
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: on July 16, 2013, 10:22:00 PM
A whole lot of this has to do with the bow and how the shelf is cut. Take any 2 bows you want; both being the same draw weight at a particular DL. One bow is cut 1/4" before center and the other is cut 1/4" past center. These two bows will require 2 drastically different arrows to tune properly.

Bisch
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Sharpster on July 17, 2013, 08:45:00 AM
JimB,

Sure would be interested to know the particulars of the shaft (spine), bow type and draw weight, and as Bisch mentioned shelf cut that you're shootin' that big 450 gr. head with?

Ron
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: RC on July 17, 2013, 08:53:00 AM
I shoot GT 35/55 29.5 long with 275 up front out of my Shelton. around 50 at my 27.5 draw. Not super fast but hits where I`m looking.All you can hear is feathers flying. Zero bow noise at the shot.RC
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: slivrslingr on July 17, 2013, 11:50:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JimB:
   (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/DSC_0004-2.jpg) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/jbrandenburg/media/DSC_0004-2.jpg.html)  
Love it!
Title: Re: 250 grains up front?
Post by: Ausable on July 17, 2013, 12:40:00 PM
I do. Well actually 260 gr on 29" 35-55 GTs, 50-55# longbows.