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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: ron w on August 01, 2013, 11:40:00 AM
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I was told a long time ago the only foolish question is the one you don't ask....so here goes. I grew up here in up state New York, both my Grand parents had dairy farms. I played in the fields, helped take in hay and spent all my free time outside. Learned to hunt and fish from my Dad and Uncle. I never remember any talk or even seeing a tick except maybe on a deer when it was hanging up to cool. Has something changed in the environment to make these things such a problem. I have had several on me and have been bitten a few times, my friend is now working with medication to battle Lyme disease. So whats going on??? :dunno: I'm getting antsy even at 3-D shoots!
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It's hotter overall. I wish your friend the best of luck, I've never been the same since getting Lyme. Treat your clothes and hunt safe.
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I got bit last year, I saved the little bugger. Called my Doctor got in the next morning. They checked the tick and he was carrying. The Doc took a blood sample. He gave me a script for 4 high dose Antibiotics. took 2 first day, 2 more the next. I went back for another blood test to see if I was infected. Took 3 days for the results. The wait sucked. The results were negative. It's good to get tested and now they start the antibiotics to shock the lyme toxin and kill it.
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Lymes does suck. But it cant compare to the new viruses they are finding in ticks now. Encephilitis mainly, different various viruses. Hunt safe guys.
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But is what Halfseminol saying the reason...a warming climate? There are areas near me that are just loaded with ticks and others that are not. Lyme is a real pain....I know several folks that have gotten it and I really don't want it.......
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Not sure if it's a coincidence, but the insecticide Diazinon, which was very effective, was banned about 8 years ago and tick populations seem to be increasing. Blame EPA :confused: ???
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Ron W, I would tend to agree that the world climate is indeed getting warmer. Over the last year I have done some research reading and it seem that those that said no years ago are now going the other way. It is a very much debated subject but I feel we owe it to ourselves to find out all we can, and one article said their seems to be a rise in predatory insects(ticks,skeeters,flys,etc.) due to this warming effect which can lead to other problems. As far as diazinon: have you ever read why it was banned, I don't know about you but I don't want to eat it with my steak, veggies or chicken.
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There is no doubt that the climate is getting warmer. The debate is what is causing it. That is best saved for another forum.
However, the causes of pestulence are as complex as those of climate change, and they are surely related.
Diazinon was never used as a general insecticide for ticks. And it is still legal for agricultural purposes, just not residential. Banning it was more for safety than environmental reasons. Organophosphate pesticides like diazinon are just watered down nerve agents and are nasty things to have around the home and intermixed in our food supply.
For your protection you need an insect repellant that is effective against ticks. Wear long sleeves and check yourself thoroughly after a day in the field. Ticks love the soft parts so make sure and get real friendly when you are checking. If a tick attaches, remove it carefully. Check the CDC's website for the best methods. And monitor the attachment site for several days after wards for symptoms of Lyme infection.
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I'm close to 50 years old and at least in central no where I live I have seen no increase since childhood. Now in heavy deer population areas you'll see more ticks. They need to stay attached 12 hours at least to transmit the several types of bacteria they have. As said before dress right and use spray. Then check yourself . if in doubt have your primary care doc call in a Rx for antibiotics.
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Permetherine during he peak season man don't mess around. I hunt in the heart of tick central in the summer time and that stuff works.
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Thanks for the input.....I try to do all that's been said. Still doesn't answer my question why there was almost none growing up and now they are almost an infestation. I don't live in an area that has very high deer numbers. As far as the peak season....it seems around my area it's all year round.
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Ron w yall need to move to New Zealand thats all I'm going to say :thumbsup:
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:biglaugh: :biglaugh: You may be right Jeff!!
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Well that I cannot say. I know the ticks love 2 things here mild winters and wet springs. I remember as a kid me and my dad stripping down in the woods and scrapping dozens of them off each other with our pocket knives. LOL good memories.
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Googled it: http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/vet-cover-stories/tick-populations-to-explode.aspx
There are many reasons that ticks and the diseases they carry spread:
- Suburbanization, which brings together people, wildlife and ticks;
- An increase in white-tailed deer;
- Migratory birds that carry ticks to new areas;
- A movement toward the preservation of open space and the replanting of trees; and
- The use of fewer insecticides.
Tick Populations to Explode in 2013
Experts predict tick populations will increase dramatically in many areas of the United States.
By Marie Rosenthal, MS
For Veterinary Practice News
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We have had mild winters in this part of the world for a few years now......who knows. There was always snow in the Northern zone for deer season...hasn't been hardly any for a number of years. I remember it snowing on Sept 27 one year, opening of bow up north. Last year we hunted snowshoe rabbits after Christmas with no snow. Maybe it is the weather.
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Probably is. There is no doubt that the globe is in a period of warming. The reason it is and what to do about it gets most of the fights
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Warmer and wetter this spring, good for ticks.
I just got my lab results back today. Positive for Lyme. Last week felt like crap, had 13 rashes on my body, only one with a center spot (bite). Started Friday with Doxacycline, feel back to normal now. Still have to take it for the next two weeks.
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TooManyHobbies.....hope you can lick it quickly...Thanks for the info John! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :notworthy: :notworthy:
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There is no doubt that there is Global Warming, most Scientists agree on that. The reasons are not important because it's happening. We probably can't DO anything about it, we have to learn to live with some new realities.
More intense, destructive storms, the North is melting so the sea level is rising, warmer winters, more bugs. We have the same tick problems here in Nova Scotia. There were always ticks on the South Shore, but they're now on the North Shore. Lyme is here too.
The last three Falls we had leaves still on many trees( although they had turned color) in the first two weeks of November. I know this because that's 2 weeks into deer season and that has NEVER happened before.
Something IS happening and the worst may be yet to come...
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I agree with the increase in tick population. Share similar background growing up. Uncles had a fruit and dairy farm in Columbia County. Grandparents bought a house and acreage. Spent every weekend and every Summer there. My Dad has the place now, so I have never not been there. Back 15 years ago, when we had 13 deer per square mile, never saw a tick. Fast forward to less than a decade ago, with a great decline in deer population, and the ticks are everywhere. Went and posted the property with my cousin, and I picked 13 off of him, and he got 6 off of me. I missed one on him, he got it off his armpit during the night.
I think the fact that the Winters are not as severe has something to do with it. While still cold, we are nor seeing deep freezing temps for several days. Those deep freeze temps, when they continue for several days, kill off the ticks that are not attached to a host to keep them warm. Otherwise, they can stay dormant on a blade of grass for weeks at a time, just lying in wait for a host to walk by.
I wish I knew another reason as to why they are so prolific. Then, maybe I could do something to prevent their existence. Until then, I will spray down with Prem, keep cuffs tight, and be alert.
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My 80-year old father grew up hunting and fishing in west Alabama and claims no one even knew what a tick was when he was a kid. I've heard this numerous times from older folks. Now, of course, you get covered up in ticks just going to the mailbox!
One thing all these older folks point out, was that there were no deer around at all then. If you were a hunter, you went after quail, rabbits, squirrel and turkey. Deer hunting was just a dream.
My father also remembers applying DDT to his skin to ward off mosquitos. DDT was legal then and no one knew how deadly it was.
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If you live in a region where lone star ticks are present, you should be extremely careful. I have contracted alpha gal allergy from a bite over ten years ago.
If you haven't heard of this, it's an allergy to ALL mammal meat. Well, except for the meat of humans and old world primates because we, and our closes ancestors, lost this carbohydrate during evolution. This allergy is on the rise and it's entirely due to the lone star tick. Feel free to google it.
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Many thanks for all the imput.......
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I think John's input is most thoughtful.
Breeding conditions and the fact that we have many different strains of 'yuk' than in decades past.
I knew a gal in the early 60's who got Rocky MT spotted fever from a dog tick bite...local gal. But it was so odd, people just shrugged.
Now we have W. Nile virus from skeeters amd all sorts of tick borne diseases...
Hey...even the 'social' scene now has STD's we never even heard of when I was out chasin! :scared: :eek: :knothead:
Things change... we've fouled Mother Earth and no getting around it!
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I think ticks increase when their primary food source increases. I've lived here since 1985 and when we moved in we only saw the occasional dog tick. Then the lone star tick showed up. Then the deer population exploded and now deer ticks are all we see with some lone star ticks. At times you can't even walk around in the yard without getting several on you. I stay bit up in the summer months.
I currently have unexplained peripheral neuropathy and was checked for tick borne disease and other possible causes but the Docs found nothing except I definitely have it. Someone mentioned diazanon being a nerve agent. I occasionally used a product in the yard that contained diazanon to control the ticks. Heck maybe the neuropathy is chemically induced by that stuff.
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Here in FL I rub myself down with bug juice before I even get dressed. It does create a scent issue so I REALLY have to watch my wind but it is either that or get bit. I only wear each outfit once and put it in a big ziplock bag. Our bow season opens in Sept and it is still hotter than you know what so I wear shorts and run down with cammo
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The moose herd in NH is suffering a loss in population, in part due to infestations of ticks that can be so bad they literally bleed an animal of that size to death.
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Duncan,
from my own reading, there is a huge (70-80%) FALSE negative on tick borne disease testing results, meaning you can have it BAD and the tests won't pick it up.
Guy I met at a shoot claims there are only 2 labs in the country that do a test that is more inclined to find the pathogens, but the insurance companies hassle them so they don't take insurance...all self pay... and it's not cheap!
Other guys who have let it go, now get antibiotic treatments, but it got imbedded so deeply in their system, the meds can't touch the Lyme.
Nothing to mess with!
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I would have to agree with the consensus. I grew up in Michigan. We use to run through the fields all day and never even get a bug on you. I didn't even know what a tick was until I read about it in Outdoor Life. Seems it was some sort of plague that occurred in the southern states. When I was growing up as it has already stated there wasn't any deer around. I was 14 years old before I saw a deer in the fields behind our house in Central Michigan. My first encounter with ticks is when the Air Force sent me to Georgia. I now live in Nebraska and we have more than our fair share of ticks.
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Ron, 2 yrs ago i contracted anaplasmosis...lymes on steroids. some of the worst pain i can remember. felt like my eye balls were being pushed on, severe headache, neck pain, terrible knee joint pain. my lab contracted it within the same time frame. one morning i woke up and found her paralyzed, thought she was dead. i had a deer tick on me the other day so small i couldnt believe i saw it. i hate those things. these tick borne diseases have serious effects if untreated....encephalapathy (swelling of the brain), paralysis, depression, ect. my neighbor lady looks like she had a stroke, her left side of her face is paralyzed...all from a tick. scary stuff.
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Interesting sidenote here about reducing the tick population.
I live in the country in southern WI. Have about 18 acres here, nice 3D range and all for the kids and I.
Like a lot of us, I spend a lot of time outdoors.
We have always had free range chickens and a few guinea hens.
I read a book on guineas entitled "Gardening with Guineas" and learned that they eat countless numbers of ticks, and other garden pests.
I've not seen a tick anywhere on my property since the inclusion of 5-10 guineas every year in the family.
Irv Eichorst
www.truesouthadventures.com (http://www.truesouthadventures.com)
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Great idea beaunaro. My wife won't let me have livestock (except bees)here in the burbs but she seriously hates ticks. Maybe I have some ammo now :) I really want some chickens.
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Twenty years ago here in central PA, I had never seen a tick in the woods. Today I can pick up twenty in an hour hiking in the same areas. As for the cause, unsure.
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Duncan, there is evidence of neural effects from long term exposure to even very low doses of organophosphate pesticides. Occasional home use would probably not do it though. Regular occupational exposure or heavy and long term residential use may. Like medicines, there is a dose-response relationship with all chemicals. The higher the dose or the more regular the dose, the greater the effects. And many have chronic (long term) effects that aren't, and may never be, understood.
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"Pyrmethrin" (?)is available at the feed store in a big container pretty cheap. Mix w/water into a spray bottle & spray around your feet where pants cover boots, your waist & shoulder/arms. Most anywhere a tick might crawl down onto your skin. P-thrin causes ticks grief & kills them quick. I've watched them bail out when they get in contact w/P-thrin. It is way toxic to ticks & maybe humans too? But, I'll take it over ticks any day.
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A local gun club had some chickens and G.Fowl to curb the ticks......they still could not keep the population down. I do think it is a good idea!!
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It's not the deer population but the white footed mice population that causes all the trouble. The tick picks up the lyme spirochete from the white footed mouse and then becomes infected.
From what I read is that if the fox population is high then your tick population is low since they tend to eat mice. I'm wondering if the coyotes have knocked down the fox populations so bad that the ticks have exploded.
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I suspect that coyotes eat as many mice as the fox they have displaced. But that is a good trail that shows how interwoven our ecosystem is. It's very difficult to tell how the change in one cog in the gear of our natural (or unnatural) world will affect the whole machine. It's like the time I pulled the loose thread on my favorite wool hunting sweater :(
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How's that for mixing up some metaphor soup?
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One of the most popular campgrounds on Cape Cod had to be closed last year due to tick infestation.
The numbers can be explained but there doesn't seem to be a clear answer why all the diseases.
No choice but to use the permithin(sp?) every time out.
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The incidence of tics carrying lyme here in the west is low I have sent numerous tics to the lab in CA all coming back negative. This information from the center for disease control was pretty useful.
http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/transmission/
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The information on ticks from other parts of the country is scary. I wonder if we're living on borrowed time in California, or if this part of the country is less hospitable to them in general, possibly because we have less rain and humidity?
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Isnt the deer mouse also the one carrying the "Hanta Virus" which killed several who got into areas where they stirred up their feces?
If so, then I hate those mices to pieces!
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DDT?
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The main predators of tics are rattlesnakes and salamanders fortunately we have a healthy population of both. As well there is a brown salamander that lives here in the west that always has a huge number of ticks in its gills.
I have caught these with my hands and seen countless tics attached to the gills. This salamander (don't recall the name) secretes an enzyme which neutralizes the lyme bacteria. You can find all this info on line from credible sources I did not make it up. :thumbsup:
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I don't know what Noah was thinking when he let two ticks on the Ark.!
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Evolution? :saywhat: :nono:
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Lyme disease sucks. I know from first hand experience. The aches, pains, and fever are not fun.
A word of caution. The rash so commonly associated with Lyme disease does NOT have to be at the bite sight. If you contract the disease, you can have multiple rashes all over, and they come on quickly.
Don't hesitate. If you have any suspicions, get checked.
The common treatment is Doxycycline. This medication affects people differently, but the worse part for me is the sensitivity of sunlight.
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I'm sure we have them, but I've never seen one here in Nevada. Makes me nervous though. Chickens will eat anything! You won't have scorpions if you have chickens, they take good care of them.
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If you have no ticks in your area, count your lucky stars.
It will be 2 years this November that I've been battling Lyme. I'm winning... I think... and I'm now about 95% back to good health. It was BAD for awhile and I thought there was a very good chance that I'd die at any moment... and that went on for months. That's a really bad place to be.
I never had the rash. Only approximately 30% of Lyme sufferers will get a rash.
I was all-but bedridden. Stepping up or down a curb was agony and I crawled on my hands and knees to ascend the stairs in my house. The pain involved in getting out of bed and dressed in the morning was excruciating. My heart would stop and then beat out of my chest day and night, breathing stopped a few times and I had to concsiously tell myself to breathe, but mostly it was system inflammation that kicked my butt.
I tested 'equivocal' on the Lyme titer my family doctor gave me and I was full blown infected at the time. All the doctors, surgeons, and specialists I saw after that test turned their heads to the possiblity of Lyme, until I took it upon myself to go to a Lyme specialist and took the Western Blot through IgenX lab in California. Bingo, positive. Treatment began, and I've been improving since.
I take several prescription medications as well as an extensive list of vitamins, supplements, antibacterial and immune system boosting herbs, extracts, special diet, various forms of detox, etc. and it's working, but progress is 'painfully' slow. I don't care though as long as I'm headed in the right direction. I take upwards of 70 pills a day. My Lyme Dr. closely monitors my kidney and liver functions and immune response indicators... among other things.
I missed last bow season completely(first time in 30 years) because I couldn't begin to pull a bow back... heck, I couldn't even STRING my wife's bow. But I can shoot now. This year, I'm going... ticks or no ticks :)
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I've noticed a lot this year. And it seems like me and the boys are always pulling at least one or two off after a trip in the woods.....
On top of the sicknesses mentioned above my allergist recently told me about tick bites causing people to become allergic to red meat. He said its an allergy that's hard to figure out because it won't happen every Time you eat red meat. But the upside of what he was saying is that the allergy will go away on its own in time.
Back to your friend with Lyme disease I pray for a speedy recovery.
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Originally posted by Bowjunkie:
I tested 'equivocal' on the Lyme titer my family doctor gave me and I was full blown infected at the time. All the doctors, surgeons, and specialists I saw after that test turned their heads to the possiblity of Lyme, until I took it upon myself to go to a Lyme specialist and took the Western Blot through IgenX lab in California. Bingo, positive. Treatment began, and I've been improving since.
Hang in there Bowjunkie! I hope you continue to improve. And thanks for telling your story.
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The last two years I went to southern Ohio in August to set stands and came out of the woods with thousands of ticks on me that I could barely see. They were no bigger than the tip of a pen. Talk about scary ticks :scared:
Oh to answer the question I think a government experiment must have gone wrong.
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Actually a lot scientists are running away from global warming.... "According to Hadley's data, the earth is not much warmer now than it was than it was in 1878 or 1941/" A lot of science is showing that the earth has cycles.
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yep I spent more time out when i was a kid with less ticks.
Got the big dog ticks, but never a deer tick.
This year Ive picked 3 off of me after they have nested in.
I hate em!!
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We have always had wood ticks, but now have the Bear and deer yicks.Have had to have a number cut out. Not fun, fortunate to not have lymes. But the wife has. not good. Best defence is to do a tick check every day and always take your clothes offaway from the bedroom and throw in the wash after in the woods.
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"There is no doubt that there is Global Warming, most Scientists agree on that"
yepper ......... been warming globally ever since that big ole ice age got over ..... its a good thing too ........... or else we couldn't grow corn in Illinois and we would most likely be bowhuntin fer mastadons and such critters instead of deer .
please splain to me why we had extremely hot summer in 1954 , the year I was born ......... was global warming already on the prowl ?
what about the dust bowl >>>>> was that gobal warming as well ?
Last year we had one of the hottest summers in years and all anyone could talk about was global warming and how the end is near .
This year we are having on of the mildest summers in my lifetime ........... is global warming on vacation ?
the earth goes through cycles of weather and has for millions of years ........ some years it is hot and some years it aint :biglaugh:
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From Bill Carlsen
"The moose herd in NH is suffering a loss in population, in part due to infestations of ticks that can be so bad they literally bleed an animal of that size to death.
I am confused... are we still talking about ticks or are we talking about the government!!?? (LOL) :bigsmyl:
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Here in the east, the tick population revolves around the acorn mast crop...lot of acorns=increase in the white footed mouse numbers. There have been several studies to control ticks on mice by gridding off an area and placing a pesticide in cotton/paper tubes for mice to pick up for their nest. Non of these worked to drop the tick counts. We see lyme, anaplasma, ehrlichia, babesia, and rocky mt spotted fever in dogs & horses with more being discovered each year. All carried by ticks. Ehrlichia was first seen in sentry dogs in Vietnam. Most severe case are multiple organisms...tippit
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Don't know if anybody's mentioned it but years ago with all the small farms, etc, there was more controlled burning going on. I know less burning has had a big impact on quail population and most likely ticks also.
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Agreed, the lack of burning off the fields and the deer numbers help promote the tick numbers. Mice, chipmunks and even squirrels carry ticks but deer move them to newer neighborhoods!
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Not sure about the burning thing....it makes sense. But in an area here they do controlled burns all the time and it's one of the worst areas for tick....go figure! I want to thank all for the responce to this post.....I have learned a lot!! :notworthy: :notworthy: :archer: :archer:
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When I was a kid in the 50's in southern Maryland we had plenty of dog ticks but no deer ticks. I use to love to pick them off the dogs. We didn't have deer or turkeys but plenty of quail and rabbits. Now we have deer and turkeys but no quail.
There is 3 stages of deer ticks, larva, nymph and adult. The first stage ( the smallest ) don't carry Lyme.
I have had Lyme for 20 years and it has taken it'd toll on me. Don't depend on the blood test it's more of a clinical diagnosis.
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Originally posted by T Sunstone:
I have had Lyme for 20 years and it has taken it'd toll on me. Don't depend on the blood test it's more of a clinical diagnosis.
I think thats good advice about the blood test.