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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Keith Zimmerman on October 15, 2013, 04:02:00 PM
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I was going through security at the Harrisburg PA airport and was caught with my Leatherman in my backpack. I didn't realize I had put it in there. I thought I had stuffed it in my Checked Luggage. So it was promptly "thrown away". Yeah, right.
I also had some 200 grain field points in the backpack in dz packs in a plastic bag labeled. He took those and said they could be used as a weapon. I replied, "How can those be used as a weapon?" He replied, "You could screw them onto the end of an arrow and use it." I said, "Where am I going to get an arrow on a plane??!!" He looked at me funny. Then I said, "What about pens and pencils? They are allowed?"
He didn't respond...
I just don't get it sometimes. I did have the choice of starting all over and checking that bag for $50. It wasn't worth it.
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$10/hr gets employees that think like that. I once had a tsa agent take a ratchet from me because he said it was 3/8" too long. As if that 3/8" makes it a weapon. The crazy thing is that was a return flight. The agents at the other airport didn't see a problem. Bunch of dopes making up rules as they go.
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Is it just me or have those little Nazi's been getting worse lately? I shocked two of the little bastages last week when they were putting me through the new scanner system. He told me to put my wallet on the conveyor belt. I said I would not and his machine wasn't worth a million dollars if it couldn't tell what a wallet was. I carried it through with me and they did a physical inspection of it on the other side.
FYI - for those you don't already know - NEVER let your wallet leave your person. There are small scanning devices that can read the RFID chips in your credit cards and I would not trust any TSA goon not to try it.
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They took my new sealed toothpaste, they are rather dumb.
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I haven't been on a plane for quite a few years now. I'm kinda glad about it too.
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I arrived on a trip and found my Buck 55 pocket knife was in my computer bag. I put in the same place on the way back. It was never noticed. As soon as I cleared security I dug it out and put it in my pocket for the 2 flights home. I've had zero confidence in the TSA since.
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I ran into one coming back from LA. I have a knee replacement and tripped the metal detector and they didn't have a body scan machine available so the very polite security lady said they would have to have someone do a pat-down search. I told her "No problem" and waited for a guy to pat me down. He swaggered out and said "come with me Sir". I told him my personal stuff was on the conveyer belt and reached for the plastic dish with my car keys, coins, wallet. He screamed at me "Don't touch that!" and everybody turned around to see what I was about to touch. I told him I wasn't going off to be searched without my stuff and he said "Don't touch anything. Point to it and I will pick it up". I said, "OK, that's my wallet, that's my comb, that's my dime, that's my dime ...." He asked me if I was trying to be a smart a$$ and I said I was not. I was just trying to deal with someone who certainly WAS one. You can imagine how it all sort of went down hill from there.
He told me in the future, I should put my wallet in my carry on luggage and let it go through the scanner, (in which case it would be sitting unattended on the conveyer belt when he dragged me off to the "pat down" area). I assured him that would never happen and he hoped I would not pass through his airport again. I told him he could take that to the bank.
First time I've ever experienced any trouble in an airport.
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they just take what they want, like a personal shopping day for them, at your cost. you know they do.
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Travelling so much oversea I have learned what I have to do.
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I would travel on planes, but I just hate being felt up. But really we should appreciate the TSA they keep us safe from dangerous people that have field points in bags and babies that may be packing a pocket knife in their diapers.
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Shoot that ain't nothing on my way back from adopting our 3rd daughter we landed in Chicago and waiting in line through customs and this little rabbit beagle that was cute as can be was bomb checking bags and was lead by a female trainer and when it got to my wife and I he looked t our diaper bag laying on the floor next to our luggage then looked at the (trainer/"backup cop") and looked back at me and my wife and baby as to say O.k whats in the bag...The trainer asked Whats in the bag Sir and we were like :biglaugh:
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You should direct complaints about TSA directly to TSA supervisors and to the airline you are flying. The airlines have the most skin in the game.
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A buddy of mine was on a prisoner transfer/carrying a sidearm. TSA allowed the sidearm and took his fingernail clippers. I am serious as a heart attack.
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Keefer, the "bomb sniffing dog" was more than likely a dog used by the USDA to smell and stop incoming fruit and veggies, not bombs. They are all over the airport. That said, they can still be a PIA.
Their job is tough, everybody hates them, but the reason they are there is still, in my mind, pretty solid. A few of them could use some classes in being human.
ChuckC
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I've got Bi-lateral knee replacements so I get patted down every time I fly. It's funny how professional they can be when they wand a 6'3" 350 lb. guy in shorts with 8" long scars.
bretto
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They should have been classified as "non-essential" :biglaugh: They are as corrupt as the rest of the government and need to be replaced with a private security company.
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As inconvenient as they are, I still am glad they are there to make me safer. I'd hate to have that job.
Joe
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I really enjoy the pat downs and encourage them to do a thorough job. I just tell them to be careful around my groin since I have a hot contagious rash :-)
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I felt stupid when he said he saw a Leatherman on the scanner. I didn't know it was in there. I was carrying an ACU military backpack with lots of zippers. He was having trouble finding it. When I reached over and said try this...he slapped my hand away. That was my fault. But the points are what got me.
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Infuriating. Since 9/11 I try to avoid flying if at all possible. Not cause of terrorists but because of the "brilliant minds" handling security.
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Being a carpenter, I always have a very small needle in my wallet for splinter removal. The tsa agent took my needle at the tampa airport. Some weapon...
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I do not wish to dispute the claims of those who have had bad experiences with the TSA folks, but those experiences are not universal. I have flown dozens of times since 9/11 and never had a problem. In my opinion, the comments claiming that all of "them" (the TSA folks) are stupid or that all of "them" are corrupt are less than thoughtful. In reality, some of "them" are probably fellow bowhunters, and most are likely good, hard-working people, just like in any other profession.
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Ive flown dozens of times, too, without any problems on bowhunting trips. It's pretty obvious what I am doing with the patches on my backpack and binoculars and stuff. NOT one time have I ever been asked about hunting. Hmm.
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Originally posted by Reynold Greenleaf:
I do not wish to dispute the claims of those who have had bad experiences with the TSA folks, but those experiences are not universal. I have flown dozens of times since 9/11 and never had a problem. In my opinion, the comments claiming that all of "them" (the TSA folks) are stupid or that all of "them" are corrupt are less than thoughtful. In reality, some of "them" are probably fellow bowhunters, and most are likely good, hard-working people, just like in any other profession.
x2, and when you start out with a bad attitude you put the tsa on defense.
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Sure beats walking or getting blown up in the plane 35,000 feet in the air.
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It's a different world from when you could take your bow on the plane and have the stewardess place it in their closet up front. You just have to be very careful about carrying anything on. I frequently fly out of Boston with bow, arrows, broadheads, and numerous knives in my checked bag. I always leave a note in the bag stating I'm going bowhunting and I'm also a knife maker. TSA has not opened my bag in Boston. But every time I leave Texas my bag has been looked in by TSA...maybe they just enjoy seeing my knives :)
They do have a stressful job with everyone complaining about what they are doing. Just remember if they confiscate one of your items, it's Your Fault for not remembering to place it in your checked bag! They even warn you and have pictures up when you enter the security line.
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C'mon Keith, we all know you're a trouble maker who's jut tying to push peoples buttons and test boundaries....LOL.
Seriously though, the leatherman is understandable and you just made a mistake I'm sure you'll never make again. The field point thing is simply silly. If I were given the option of choosing a field point or a pen to use a weapon, I'd pick the pen.
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I never complained about the Leatherman. I admitted that was my fault. Even tried to help him find it until he slapped my hand.
The points issue is just plain stupid.
Katman--At what point did I have a bad attitude? Were you there? I'm done.
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Travel to Israel sometime. Their pre-board screening is far less offensive to the flyer, yet more efficient and definitely more secure. :thumbsup:
:notworthy:
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Was informed by my sister in law, who's husbands father works for the tsa that they are supposedly given "bonus's" for what they find dependent on what it is. He allegedly showed her a printout of what different "contraband" is worth. I'm sure some of that's lost in translation but makes a guy wonder. :dunno:
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My wife and I were in line an an African airport(can' t remember which one) when I saw a little beagle with his handler approaching. As dog lovers, I told my wife to check out the dog. She starts saying, "What a cute lil doggie." Then he reared up on her backpack. I said,"Well, the cute lil doggie is ratting you out." The handler asked her about fruits, vegetables, and such. She was so shocked she couldn't speak, and I(being supportive) was laughing my butt off. He never checked her pack, just finally gave up on her and walked away.
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Recently I was given some very 'personal service' because I had too much foot powder in my running shoes. A while back I was put through the wringer over some long nosed pliers!
Be patient with these people they are underpaid and get almost no training.
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I travel on planes at least once a month. It is universal law now that we are going to be searched and scanned etc. It still amazes me to watch some of these bozo's try and get through security. Women are the worst. 5 bracelets, long chains, jewelry, bling and more bling. When I travel I definitely think minimalistic is best.
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Kieth, was not saying you had a bad attitude but reading some of the other posts sounded like some may have a bad attitude going in and that does not help the situation. Sorry if I offended you. I am sure there are very good tsa agents and some not so good just like any other profession. I agree the taking the field points was over the top.
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So some the generalizations I'm reading about TSA...I've heard similar negativity before about hunters...
Fact. Go to TSA.gov for any questions about what is allowed in carry on.
Those of you that travel a lot. You hate the screening process? Imagine being there 8 hours a day...I'm sure just like any job, the people are a mix of good and bad...
The biggest thing to keep in mind is why they are there in the first place. I guess is really tough being inconvenienced though.
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I had a bic lighter and two books of matches that had been in my bag for a decade or more removed from my CHECKED bag when they pulled it at random for search, items legal to carry. A friend had some expensive jewelry taken from her bag, and the careful packing job to protect her clothing was trashed. I have no problem with the system, but the training and supervision suck big-time. Thievery is always a possibility, and we are powerless to prevent their actions.
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They made me miss my flight back on Sept, 28th, I got scolded for having two sealed plastic bottles of water, I tile them I'll drink 13 ounces out of each then they'll be O.K. to take, they wouldn't have it, so I guess they were thirsty.
I told the Female TSA person she was going to make me miss my flight, she looked at me and said " then you should have gotten here earlier. So I missed my flight, but no problem, my friends came and picked me up and I left the next day, no extra charge from the airlines. I never unpacked my carry on and the next day when the other TSA person checked my bag again, she scolded me for taking the hand sanitizer with me, I explained that is was in the bag the day before when they made miss my flight. So she just said maybe that agent missed it, I told her that she went through my bag with a fine toothed comb.
The best part about all of this, is I carry between 1000 and 1500 people on my train everyday, but that is our moron Gov't for you.
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I missed a flight a few yrs ago because of the process. All I had was a book to read. Thats it. I stood in line what seemed like forever. Finally I passed everybody and went right to the front. I received sevral remarks from people for it.
I said, "Im going to miss my flight. All I have is this book."
The TSA agent let me thru quick. She was real nice about it. Anyway, I ran all the way to my gate and missed my flight. The airline attendant told me I should have gotten to the airport 2 hrs early after I told her what happened. My reply, " I was here 3 hours early!!" I was, too.
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While flying home from a Sept elk bow hunt thru Denver, I had a TSA agents dog pay special attention to me spending a long time sniffing me out then licking my boots. Apparently the dog liked the taste of elk blood on my boots. No other search was required.
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I'm underpaid and have a ton of training/education:) but I mind my manners. Last time I checked, TSA agents are working there by choice.Why would someone with a poor attitude want to work with the public in the first place?
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I have to fly soon:( hope reading this thread isn't going to jinx me.
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Have you noticed that common sense is not so common these days?
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If you have something in your carry on that is not allowed through the security check point. They do not have the right to confiscate it... period.
i mistakenly had a hand full of tools in my carry on that i had forgotten about. When they pulled my bag apart and said they would have to confiscate these items, i went balistic and asked for a supervisor. they can prevent you going into the secure portion of the airport with those kind of things, but they have no right to confiscate them..... but it depends on what the items are too.
You have the right to take your Items back and put them in your checked baggage if you have time...or pay the fee to check in your carry on.
In my case those were my fathers tools, and he had just passed away.I was pissed & i wasn't backing down for nothing.... i got them back and checked in my bag.
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It seems to me that all of these restrictions are more about 'we the people' and not so much about made up reasons for why the restrictions were placed on us. I smell an elephant in the room, he may be hard to spot, but he is here.
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Twice flying from Fla to MD with no carry on bag, due to emergencies at home, I was told to go behind the curtain and remove my prosthetic leg. Both times with shorts on... screw them and their jobs. I'll not fly again. And I don't care how many times anyone has flown and not been hassled, if you're an ass at your job you need to get another. Your bad day has nothing to do with me.
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I work with TSA daily. They are students and people trying to make ends meet. Some are jerks. I do not think they get bonus points, as I watch them bring back items and dump them in a barrel, no paper or words exchanged with the supetbisor. Read the rules, double check your stuff, pack your patience and arrive early. Our system is one of the most up to date systems and it screens quickly with fewer pat downs. They just started a new priority line for trusted people, do not know much about it. I do have widen the terminal hall on Monday to accomodate this new thing. There is theft. It is dealt with quickly. Our place has self mailers. You can drop an item in an envelope and mail it to yourself. Politely ask for a super. One thi ng most don't know is the agents get tested often, somehow. They have to err on the side of caution for our xecurity and their jobs. There are jerks i. Every profession. IMO
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Why dont they tell u that u can mail this stuff to urself if its available?? Hmmm. Makes them bigger jerks if they dont give you the option to do that.
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A couple of years ago I was returning from a Co archery hunt with 50# of boned out elk meat in my daypack. [cheaper than checking it]
FWIW, it creates a bit of a stir with their machines as it shows up as a big black hole- and they sure don't like that. Of course they took me aside, called a supervisor [trying to find a regulation to keep it off the plane] They made me open the game bag and plastic bag to have a look- and then all was fine.
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I seem to recall that Dennis Kamstra, in TBM, a few years ago, addressed this specifically with regard to Leatherman tools. He suggested having a padded envelope, with sufficient postage already in place, and addressed to yourself. You could just mail it yourself and be done with it.
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Unfortunatly, too many people are into the "Power & Control" mode of decision making, pertaining to their employment. No common sense, just ego & "Because I said so" responses. I guess they never learned the Golden Rule in Kindergarden.
This is why I chose to DRIVE across the Country to hunt, instead of fly. Yes, it's tiring & exspensive, but if I drive close to the speed limit and mind my own buisness, I have no issues. It's my vehicle. I can stop WHEN I want, WHERE I want, or roll down my window and enjoy a cigar as I drive. If I don't like the looks of an area, I just keep driving. And no idiots hassle me about my equipment.
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Honestly, I thought most of the people here were a little better than most of what I have been reading in this post.
The TSA, like any job, has good and bad employees. Ever has a bad experience with...well lets say a cop? Ever had a good one? Exactly.
They do not keep anything...everything they do is on video. They are tested virtually all year just to keep their job. They get attitude ALL DAY from the genereal public.
Am I saying they are all decent to people? No. But to see a free for all on people that basically safeguard the airways...well, it disappoints me. Greatly.
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Be disappointed all you want. Greatly. That's your prerogative, if you think less of me for stating an opinion maybe you should just read the posts about hearts and flowers. Folks telling about their experiences is not a 'free for all'. It's telling about the things that have happened to them, that's all.
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I don't mind the TSA agents at all. It is the New York JFK baggage handlers that steal everything from you that makes my blood boil.
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About 4 or 5 years ago, there was a boat load of TSA confiscated knifes for sale on the big auction site (and listed as such). The employee was later fired, it was in the paper. I'm sure there are decent TSA employees, but a few with attitudes and little or no common sense give the rest a bad name. Strip searching old ladies and babies, patting down toddlers, etc., seems to happen at airports on a regular basis, if you believe the media reports. I don't think it's fair to compare REAL LEO's to "TSA employees". Given the scope of legal / tactical / social training, required College education and scope of authority & liability, to compare the two is insulting to LEO's.
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Buncha whiners.... ;)
Along with a number of other TG members, I was flying through Canada at 9 am on 9/11/2001. We got put down in Edmonton, AB and spent many days stranded there. You have no idea how tight the security was heading home when we got the chance. Every step of the way we encountered armed police in SWAT gear, the toughest airport screening ever devised, and border agents who were downright ugly in their attitude toward us. These were US Customs and Border Patrol people who were checking us (American travelers) trying to get home to our families. TSA folks are milktoast by comparison.
A year later I got caught with a fine knife gifted to me by my wife many years earlier. I was caught by security at (of all possible bad places) Baltimore-Washington International Airport. The knife was an oversight, and the catch was legit. I discussed it with TSA and an airport official. I left my name and address with the official, and explained the sentimental value of that knife. Two weeks later the knife arrived in a plain brown box with no return address. Yes...they returned it to me at their expense. I can spin around in my chair right now and see it in my display cabinet.
I was in the air on 9/11. I saw the fear in everyone's eyes. You won't hear me giving the TSA or airport security a hard time. Their job isn't to make life easier...it's to make your flight safer. I for one never have a problem remembering that.
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my wife and I flew to Great falls montana a few years back- we went out of Orlando, and in to colorado where we exited the terminal and met with a friend for lunch (at the airport) we finished went back through security and on to great falls- stayed for 5 days, went back through security at great falls and there was a huge 55 gallon drum at the security tsa screning-- huge sign said please leave unused ammo here, place in bin, etc.... there must have been 400# of ammo in this thing! shot gun shells pistol ammo, big game centerfire stuff, etc... we went back through security and made it back to orlando with out incident. when we got home I took my cary on back pack unzipped all the zippers and dumped it out. there were 6 rounds from my .45 colt in one of the outside pockets that went through security 3 seperate times at 3 different airports. they were not "hidden" as they were loose rounds in an outside pocket. they were not detected and that makes me wonder-
L.R.
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I don't fly much, but when I do I know pretty much anything resembling any weapon is going to get scrutinized, so I make sure when I pack nothing that even has a remote chance of being called a weapon is in the bag. You know you're going through the scanners why temp the possible hassle. All the examples of I "accidentally" forgot the bowie knife, the hacksaw, the...etc in my bag has me scratching my head - how do you do that if you know you're going to the airport.
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I'm badged for several airports (in the port 5 or more days a week) and I have to go through the security line (under mostly the same security rules as travlers) and my experience has been most TSA employees like the rest of the working world has its good folks and some that need to improve their professional and social skills.....I've seen some of the stuff that people try to bring through the imaging machines and the crap others try to give the TSA front line folks that are just trying to do their jobs....so I'm probably a little more simpathetic toward them and what they are expected to do everyday and encourage you to give them a little grace while they try to complete a mostly thankless job....
><>>
Glenn
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While I can only imagine your anxiety flying that day, everyone should try to remember one thing, if the various Gov't agncies had just done there jobs before and on 9-11, there wouldn't have been a 9-11, or a Patriot act, and nobody got fired for not doing their jobs.
So now they have to justify their jobs by checking, lets see, an 80+ year old guy, while his wife looks on, oh, and lets not for get the young couple with there infant ( yes I asked, 3 weeks old ), yes infant in the baby seat watching, are you kidding me, oh that's right, we can't profile. So now we have a whole new Gov't agency to do the job that the Gov't should have done in the first place ( makes perfect sense, NOT ).
P.S. I'll drive from now on.
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The government that is strong enough to protect you from everything, is strong enough to take everything from you.
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Originally posted by Ric O'Shay:
Travel to Israel sometime. Their pre-board screening is far less offensive to the flyer, yet more efficient and definitely more secure. :thumbsup:
:notworthy:
This is correct.
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A few statistics on commercial flying:
1,147 deaths, in 42 crashes, in year 2000 globally.
475 deaths, in 23 crashes, in year 2012 globally.
Number of domestic plane crashes caused by terrorists since September 2001: Zero
Averaging the last five years, the death risk for passengers in the United States has been one in 45 million flights.
An American traveler could fly every day for an average of 123,000 years before being in a fatal crash, based on statistical average.
I like those numbers. I don't much care for the security line. Personal complaints against TSA since it began? Zero.
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The Marine Corps sent me to England last year, on official orders to buy Harriers. I always travel with my favorite backpack; lots of pockets, super rugged, etc... I arrived at Philadelphia International Airport early Monday morning, after camping over the weekend, and had forgoten to remove the rather large fixed blade knife as well as my leatherman from the pack. When I saw the look on the TSA Screener's face as my pack went through the XRay machine, I immediately realized my blunder. He called for reinforcement and I was quickly in the company of the next level of security. I humbly and apologetically explained what I had done and that guy personaly boxed up my knives, put a security seal on the box and checked them onto the plane's cargo hold. I put myself in a precarious position, and the TSA personnel helped me out; wish I could thank him again.
Tom
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Phrogdrvr, that knife wasn't legal in England either :D
I know it sounds glib, but read the rules, follow them, arrive early, quit blaming the security force for doing their job and .....enjoy your trip.
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Sounds like he was commending them?
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My second statement wasn't directed at anyone in particular, it's just an observation. The folks who follow rules in these kinds of circumstances are usually the ones who don't complain about getting hassled.