Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Fireman2019 on April 17, 2014, 12:39:00 PM
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I understand the reasoning behind footing a wood shaft, but why a carbon shaft? The popular traditional carbon shafts have weight inserts for adding weight. Is it mostly a cosmetic thing, or is there a functional reason behind it?
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To prevent failure upon a hard impact.
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A friend hit the leg of a 3-D target the other day and the post inside that leg mushroomed the point back into his carbon shaft. A footing would have prevented that most likely but I never do it. Just seems like overkill to me.
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It helps to keep the ends from cracking or splitting.Carbons are tough arrows,hard to break.The footing helps to reinforce the weakest part of a carbon arrow,the open ends where the insert and nocks are.I only foot the arrows I plan to use for stump shooting.I don't foot all my carbon arrows.
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(http://i.imgur.com/XGRkWze.jpg)
Here ya go.
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So the foot absorbs the damage, are you then able to change the foot? I read that some guys are using JB weld to attach them. Seems like the foot would be pretty well bonded to the shaft. Forgive my beginner questions. Trying to learn as much as I can.
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Once you epoxy or JB weld the footing on its permanent.
Bretto
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No need to change the foot, the aluminium tube can help stop the mushrooming pictured above from occurring.
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I have some I footed because the arrow stretcher just could not get quite enough length out of them.A footing took care of that though :D
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I footed some several years ago and they do prevent the insert/mushroom issue. I did have one snap off at the top of the footing when I shot a tennis ball with a judo. Seems to just move the weakest link further up the shaft.
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Loctite 380 is what I use to foot carbon arrows with aluminum 'sleeves'.
The loctite holds them in place, and when GENTLY heated, they slide right off.
Been using it for years. Good stuff.
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What kat said, I've heard of people using the Loctite Black Max (also called 380 ) w without footing and it kept the insert from moving down the arrow shaft, tough stuff !
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In a word "strength".
"Once you epoxy or JB weld the footing on its permanent."
I just use hot melt, Kimsha Quick-stick it works great and allows for removal of outsert/insert with just a little heat.
Kris
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When you talk about a footed wood arrow, you are talking about something completely different than putting a footing on a carbon shaft!
Bisch
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I have footed some of my carbons before. My best example of the footed carbon was a direct hit on a piece of rebar holding a target in ground. It is a Easton Axis shaft, brass insert and 2in footing. The impact bent the field point over, split the alum footing but did no damage to shaft. I replaced the point and footing and still have the arrow.
I have broke carbons but usually by hitting the object in middle of shaft.
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We have some pretty rocky stuff where I hunt and I like to stump shoot back to the truck. I usually carry one footed shaft for that but don't foot my hunting shafts.
I like gorilla glue for the footing and a SGT head.
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I use super glue on mine.
The difference in failure between my footed carbon shafts and those that came before footing was amazing.
Hint- bevel the back (fletching) side of the footing. File/grind the insert end square. Usually this will mate tight against whatever broadhead (if a glue on) you choose, the footing being smaller in diameter or equal in diameter to the BH ferrule, making a very clean transition from the broadhead to the shaft.
Joshua
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Anyone have pics?
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Here are some footed carbon arrows that I use for small game and stump shooting.
Tony
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn230/SNUFFER8/IMG_0033.jpg) (http://s305.photobucket.com/user/SNUFFER8/media/IMG_0033.jpg.html)
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'cause it make one rough and tough stumping arrow.
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I sleeve all my axis shafts. Here's a quick video for those interested...
http://youtu.be/U92sm10gDiQ
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You can also use the Ferr-L-Tite blue stick glue. Heat the stick and wipe a bit of it around the carbon shaft. Heat the aluminum arrow sleeve and slide it down over the carbon shaft allowing the heat from the aluminum to melt the glue. Wipe off excess before ti hardens completely.
I found that a XX75 2113 fits nicely over a GoldTip Expedition Hunter shaft.
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Originally posted by S2 Bowstrings:
I sleeve all my axis shafts. Here's a quick video for those interested...
http://youtu.be/U92sm10gDiQ
Very well done as usual Ryan. :thumbsup:
I don't foot the nock end myself but always the front. Here's a 2-1/2 minute video by our TG brother Daniel Yononindo showing just how effective external footings can be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaiCiL2Jg04
Ron
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Where you guys buying this Loctite 380 Black Max?
Thanx
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I've also been shooting over-footed (external) carbons (Gold Tip) with Aluminum sleeves for a few years.
On a glancing blow, I did manage to bend a solid 100 gr. brass insert, which had to be heated to release the glue holding it in, and when the over-footing of aluminum was removed, there was a SMALL crack in the shaft.
Using brown hot melt, which I believe is relatively flexible, everything stayed in tact inside the shaft and aside from a bent 100 gr. brass insert, it would have appeared 100% useable.
I'm a fan and believer! Great video, Ron!
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Here are some pictures of different ones.I find it just as beneficial to also install a 1/4" piece on the nock end.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/P1010789.jpg) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/jbrandenburg/media/P1010789.jpg.html)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/P1010570.jpg) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/jbrandenburg/media/P1010570.jpg.html)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/BearSeason2013015.jpg) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/jbrandenburg/media/BearSeason2013015.jpg.html)
Here are some dimensions for aluminum shafts.Measure or find the O.D. of your carbon shaft and then choose the appropriate aluminum,based on it's I.D.The aluminum,ideally would have an I.D.,app. .007 larger than the carbon I.D.This makes it easier to get on but without excess slop.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/scan-22.jpg) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/jbrandenburg/media/scan-22.jpg.html)
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Here is an example of the benefits of aluminum footing carbon arrows.I made direct hits on rocks with these two arrows.The arrows were 700 gr,shot from a 54# bow,Victory V Force,HV 300's.Of a few carbons I have experience with,the Victory HV's are the least tough.
The 200 gr Grizzly broadhead was ruined and the Judo badly bent but both arrows survived beautifully.The footings saved the day,for sure.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/P1010786.jpg) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/jbrandenburg/media/P1010786.jpg.html)
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JimB - Looks like you double footed those in the 3rd photo?
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Jim,
Any change to spine or need for adjusting point weight etc after adding the front footing? Thanks!
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Zbone,those Tuffheads have a 23/64" so I added the 2nd footing to help fill the gap.
Butchie,my footings are normally 1" long so they don't go past the end of the brass insert,so there is no stiffening affect but they do add 9-13 grains to the front end,so that can affect tune slightly.
I always put a 1/4" footing on the nock end and that seems to come close to balancing out any affect that the front footing may have on tune.Weight on the rear of the shaft usually has more affect than the same amount up front.
To be honest,these days I foot them before tuning anyway but in the past,I saw no difference when I footed front and back.I think that rear footing is worth doing and probably has saved some arrows when nocks were shot off.
I cut my footings with a small tubing cutter and chuck them in a drill press,using a mill file to bevel the rear of the footing.This helps a lot when pulling arrows out of a bag target.I don't do any beveling to the rear footing.I do lightly deburr the inside ends of the footings with a countersink bit,just held in my hand.
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You guys using a brass shell case deburrer (can't remember the name they call it) to taper smooth the footings?
Thanx
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That's what I'm going to do next, is foot some carbon shafts, and go out and set up some concrete targets. You got to be joking!
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Interesting thing I noticed in the video Ron posted is that of the 4 arrows shot the 2 without footings barely moved the cement block. the 2 arrows with the footing both knocked the cement block over. Seems to me that on a heavy bone hit the energy retention of the footed shaft hits a lot harder than the the energy lost as the insert gets crushed into the shaft on the non footed arrow.
Pretty impressive stuff if you ask me.
Great post and very informative.
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Ok, point well taken. Then how many people have had inserts crushed in to the shaft on bone impacts?
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I cheat on champfering the edges. I chuck the piece lightly in my cordless drill and run it against my 2x72" belt grinder. Super easy! I would think a disk sander would work just as well, or chuck it in a drill press and hold a piece of 220 grit paper on a hard block against it.
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Mr. Breeding showed me how to use a sander to make a slow, long bevel on the rear side of the footing. The "bump" I experienced drawing back over the more abrupt, made by my reloading chamfer tool was way too abrupt...the "bump" was distracting but with the long, slow taper, I don't notice it as I draw!
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Zibon I use the saffing tool like you thought both inside and outs.
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A carbon arrows weakest point is right behind the insert where on a hard impact such with a tree or bone the insert will mushroom up into the shaft. An aluminum footing over the point end of the shaft and insert completely takes care of this problem by reinforcing this area with a sort of wall. Think of it as reinforced concrete so to speak.
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Why ? (http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab99/tragomvuka/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140423_175419.jpg)