Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: ChuckC on September 12, 2014, 09:17:00 AM
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We seem to be in discussion mode and actually I think we are doing it quite well, all in all. That my friends is awesome. I get to learn what others think about the same topic.
Keeping up the talk, and please, only civil discussion of what you think.
I read a lot of talk about bow hunting being a "sport", we hunt for sport. What does that mean ? Do I really have sport with this or am I fulfilling a need, a physical or mental need ?
I don't eat for sport, or drink for sport. Even though I may keep remnants and reminders of my hunt and of my eating and drinking (photos, pieces of things like leaves, mugs, menus etc, hides, heads, whatever), is it really sport ?
Note. . I don't video myself to share with others (or at all), I am usually alone when I hunt, I tend to pass up way more than I ever shoot, I tend to smile a lot when I am out there seeing things that I know others will never see, or understand if they did see it. I also don't recall ever jumping up and down and screaming when I hit something.
Is it sport ?
ChuckC
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Merriam/Webster says;
a physical activity (such as hunting, fishing, running, swimming, etc.) that is done for enjoyment
Certainly, bowhunting definitely meets that definition.
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I see a lot of this and I think you have to look at it from the view of the one saying it.
You may view it being sport, if you do not have to do it. I look at sport hunting as hunting without need to hunt. If you dont eat what you kill then it's sport.
I could go further and say that if you see no financial benefit, then it is sport but I would have to contend with those who do not benefit financially but do see benefits via healthful eating of clean meat, as it were.
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A "sport" would be an activity where you are competing either as a team or an individual against others. I think in all reality bow "hunting" would not be a sport for most of us.
Good Shooting,
Craig
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Chuck, your question got me thinking. My feeling is that whenever we challenge ourselves, physically and mentally, to do something we don't HAVE to do, that's potentially sport. I may not ever race against other swimmers, but it's still sport to me to try to go farther than I have before. Likewise, in the field, I compete against my own shortcomings and the vagaries of nature when I hunt. If there were no challenge - shooting tame, fenced deer - or if I did it for material (rather than emotional profit), then it would not be sport anymore. Which, come to think of it, describes a lot of pro sports.
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"Sport" is the tag/name/designation some guides give to their clients.
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Goose I think is headed in a good direction with his thought. If its a sport, then to me its a sport where you compete against yourself to better yourself. Otherwise to me it is a skill and a hobby.
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I do think of it as "sport." I do think it's a challenge and you are competing against another competitor - nature. Although I do eat what I kill, and venison is a major part of my family's diet - I am not dependent upon hunting for food. To be honest I spend way more money for my hunting supplies than I would if I just went and bought meat. :bigsmyl:
I think if we are honest with ourselves, none of us HAVE to hunt for food. It's a supplemental, fulfilling, but optional method of providing for ones family. We do it because we enjoy it - the preparation, the hunt itself, the time spent with others of like-mind, the memories, and yes - the meat and the trophies. To me, that's a sport. We don't HAVE to play football - we do it for the enjoyment, memories, time with others, and for the fulfillment of an underlying desire to compete.
But as mentioned before, it really lies in how you individually define "sport." I treat my adversary (the animal) with the utmost respect and eat whatever I kill. I'm not a trophy hunter, although I enjoy the chance to chase a mature buck just like we all do.
I enjoy all aspects of the hunt. So, for me personally - I define it as a sport because I don't see "sport" as a negative word or a negative reflection of hunting.
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I think of hunting more as a hobby same as growing a garden but think that archery in it's self is a sport
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Hunting, Mountain Climbing, sailing, fishing, shooting and a bunch of other things are sports. Things that are considered sports today such as Baseball, Football, Basketball and a host of others are games. Archery and Bowhunting are a sport! :readit:
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Bowhunting is not a sport my friend, it's A Way of Life. For those of us that have stood the test of time, it has consumed
Us, it is on our minds constantly, it is something we do in the best
Or worst of weather, it brings us great joy in way you can't put into words. It's not the killing although that is part of it, it's being one with nature, enjoying what God has given us, it's inner pease..... I could go on and on....
RW
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For me, hunting is a psychological necessity. I don't think that's true for everyone who hunts, so I think that definition only applies to those who could stop and not really miss it. I get great enjoyment from my archery, true, but I don't really feel that I have a choice. When humans were still primarily tribal in organization, apparently tasks were taken up by those with a propensity in that direction. Some people were healers, some were gardeners, some were babysitters, etc. My forebears were definitely the hunters. Paraphrasing John Lee Hooker, it's in me, and it's got to come out.
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Its part of who I am. Roy and Don have described it as I see and live it.
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In most sports there is a conquering the thrown aspect, a mock war game. In the Olympic sports there is less conquest, more of a test of abilities and skill. We have inherited memory in our dna, it is all part of who and what we are. Sitting on the recliner, drinking beer and watching football is not a sport. Today the modern man is all about being entertained, shooting a longbow and bow hunting is doing something. Perhaps it is very enjoyable, but it is not entertainment. I do not think we need to think of bow hunting as a sport, an obsessive compulsive hobby perhaps.
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This a great thread. I believe it is a sport. I'm in better shape at the end of season than before it starts, so there is some physical requirements that allow us to do it well. Also I believe the challenge that we impose on ourselves makes it much more a sport. We're not killing, we're hunting. We don't consider 100 or more yards "close enough". We put strategy into an unknown set of circumstances which may or may not play out, just like football or baseball.
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Bowhunting is killing(in hunt you must to take life ) animal .
Killing is not sport , so hunting is way of life .
Hunting is tradition , hunting is part of ours personality :-) ......
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YES
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I don't know if it's a sport for me or not.
It fills a role in my life and who I am that can not be filled any other way.
I don't always fill my tags but it's not for lack of trying.
I may fail more often because it's my choice to keep the hunt simple and on the same ground as the animals I hunt.
I've made changes in the last 3 seasons in my hunting style because I prefer to have nothing between me and my quarry but air.
It's quite a challenge....and I love it!!!
God bless,Mudd
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To me and most of my family hunting is not a sport ;it's more like a spiritual thing where you become one with the hunted . To think like ; to move like the hunted to harvest it . From a young age I was taught to have respect for the animals we took for there death give me or us life . When I was young half or more of the meat we ate was wild the rest was raised and processed at home ; something that is lacking in today's fast pace . There was no trophy hunting ; no outfitters ; just hunting for meat . The joy of the hunt didn't come from bagging a great trophy ; or who had the most and costly equipment ; but from when a young hunter could finally do it right ; I can still see the gleam in my father and grand fathers faces ; and now mine with my grand children . I no longer have to hunt for the meat of wild things [most of the time its cheaper to go buy meat] but its more like a seasonal bonding of nature and family . So NO its NOT a sport TO ME .
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You go to a 3-D shoot and compete against your buddies for the high score, or you are in an indoor league for the winter, those are a sport. Competing against others, be it solo or on a team, that is a sport.
When I get into the woods and try to outsmart a White-Tail.....that is an art. No scores involved , "points" maybe,but in a different meaning.
Good Shooting,
Craig
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As a youngster I participated in/played just about every type of organized game/sport known to a boy growing up in Georgia the 60's and 70's. In high school I was friends with a couple of different groups...the jocks(because I was one) and the hunters (because I wanted to be one). I found myself grasping to learn as much as I could from the hunters. My life started gravitating towards the solitude and peacefulness of the outdoors while shying away from the lights and crowds of sports. Odd thing is the exact progression happened with my son, at 10 or 11 instead if his latter teens. So, to me, bowhunting is 180 degrees opposite of being a sport.
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Bowhunting is a non-competitive sport.
Archery shooting at targets of various kinds, is a competitive sport.
We hunt for 'sport' rather than hunt for food on a regular basis
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Call it what you will, I'm going hunting! :thumbsup:
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When you look at what is considered sport now, I don't think it is a sport, or even that we should wish it to be. For me its an instinct and a part of my culture. A culture I share with people all over the world. We hunt for the sake of hunting. But also because we recognise what it gives us and does for us. Most of us still hunt for food as well. We might have other choices of source we can get food, but we are entitled to go out and provide our own. We should not downplay the importance of that.
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It's been a way of life for me as long as I can remember. Never even considered it as a sport.
I wouldn't know how not to hunt. My whole life is wrapped around it yr round in one way or another.
I can kinda understand how some call it a sport if they don't hunt for the meat and are competing with friends or whoever for biggest rack or most numbers. The reward is glory just as in football or other sports.
I feel the same way far as the glory to some extent, but it doesn't come first with me. I have a predator type instinct that fuels my hunting desires. I want to kill it and eat it and the weird thing that desire runs deeper and stronger than I realistically value the meat..even though I love venison. If I go a long period without killing a deer I get hungrier like a lean wolf and try that much harder. My feelings even change towards the deer..they're not as nice and cute as before.
When I kill a few deer a few days apart the killing begins to get to me and make me question why I do this, etc.
Anyway, there's not a place on this earth I enjoy being more than in the deep woods on a bright cool fall morning.
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Nope. It is fun though but it's not a game.
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I get the feeling that this question is being asked because some people think that calling bowhunting a sport somehow demeans bowhunting. I've hunted and fished all my life, and for a good part of my life bought the things to do it with from "sporting goods stores," until they started branching out into more specialty areas with more specialized names in the last 20 years or so. I can think of other areas of life where people weren't happy with the names they had been tagged with, and so changed them to something else, sometimes more than once. I'm not sure it changed anything except the name, and people who were unhappy with the associations being made with the old name soon found the same associations being made with the new name.
Frankly, I can't think of anyone we would want to be associated with who would have a negative association with the words "sport" or "bowhunting" and if they do, I'm sure that won't change if we call it something else. So I'm happy with calling it a sport or hobby or avocation or passion or anything else, as long as nobody stands in my way of doing it.
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I agree with the above post by Mackey, bowhunting is a way of life, to do it right, whether trad or wheelie, to be a good, consistent bowhunter, requires that you invest a lot of yourself into it. Time, patience and hard work. I also do it for sustenance, wife and I hunt hard to fill our freezers every year, and we depend on this meat by choice, I might add. Same reason I grow a garden and process fruit from my orchard, I like being, for the most part, self sustaining, gives me a sense of accomplishment like no other.
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Interesting question!
I enjoy sport fishing, and consider myself a "sportsman". Following the logic of that nomenclature, I guess that I'm a "sport hunter", and thus bowhunting would be a sport.
But I don't like to think of the pursuit and killing of something as a game. In that respect, I do not think of it as a sport.
How's that for a slippery answer?
:dunno:
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Originally posted by R. W. Mackey:
Bowhunting is not a sport my friend, it's A Way of Life. For those of us that have stood the test of time, it has consumed
Us, it is on our minds constantly, it is something we do in the best
Or worst of weather, it brings us great joy in way you can't put into words. It's not the killing although that is part of it, it's being one with nature, enjoying what God has given us, it's inner pease..... I could go on and on....
RW
Great great words!! Well said well heard!
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I will disagree.......Hunting with a bow, gun, knife, spear, sling shot, stone or your bare hands is a sport. You do not have to compete to be involved in a sport, example: mountain Climbing. But when it's all said and done......who cares, I like to bow hunt and will continue as long as I can!
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"Getting shot at is not a sport, it's a matter of life and death" - Whitetail Deer
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Too many hobbies......that is pure gold.
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Hunting is a ''instinct'' that every predator has!
Hunting became a sport when man started keeping scores. P&Y and B&C club has made hunting a sport!
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I'm with Ron W who cares its something I like and love to do. You really don't have to do it to stay alive . If this is all you think about 24-7 you don't have much of a life there's other things out there. Family, friends other hobbies ect. Heck the world. Hunting can be a sport to some and to others not. Lot of good stuff said. :thumbsup:
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Hunting for me means everything I think I was born to do and everything I love to do. Its the sun rises the sun sets the sounds of the woods waking in the morning and the woods calming at sun set. Hunting just isn't being out for a kill or a set of horns its a lot more than that its a way of life for me and my family. So I don't think of hunting as a sport but as a way of life.
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If you hunt out of ego driven motivation., Want to be recognized as the one that killed Huge Horn animal ect then it is competitive . Perhaps a professional sport. I personally see hunting as wonderful recreation with survival skill base. I am not in competition with any one including myself or the animal. I hunt to make food. If that food has a fine trophy set of antlers or is of an exceptional size then it is bonus to me .
All that said IMHO the P and Y book ect is detrimental to archery hunting in general( strictly my opinion and worth only that) and is not a help but it is a negative factor driven and riddled with lies, ego and cheating to such an extent that it becomes meaningless.
This is so rampant that any time a huge animal is killed it is immediately attacked by other jealous snobs and the poor guy that killed it is almost immediately brought to question. Unless of course, he or she is in the clique.
JMHO and that's all its worth.
God bless, Steve
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archery is a sport,hunting is a skill. an man do I love it!!!! my 2 cents
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If you are killing an animal to feed your family it is not a sport but a lifestyle.
If you are killing an animal to impress anyone by putting it's head on your wall, it's a sport.
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Yep and one that us old coots can hold our own at. Cant wait until game day,(Oct. 15)
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If you consider our opponents while we're hunting, wind,weather in general,the animals senses, the rules as they are and a bunch of other things I'm sure I forgot, then yes I can see where it would be considered a sport. I just don't think "winning" always involves a kill.
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Originally posted by Plumber:
archery is a sport,hunting is a skill. an man do I love it!!!! my 2 cents
I like what he said.And will add We do not need to kill for food its cheaper to go buy it, than to pay for all this stuff and gas ect. We want to kill or own food . And there's nothing wrong with that.I think we have way more respect for the meat that we do get. Even the stuff we do buy.
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Webster's defines a sport as an activity having an opponent. An opponent is defined as a person with a different objective from your own. If you shoot for scores to win archery is a sport. If you don't compete against anyone then it's not a sport whether it be bow hunting or archery in general IMO.
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I personally hate sports all sports so with me its one of my hobbys intertwined with my sense for adventure,,,,, I'm not trying to win, I'm not trying to beat my average, I'm not doing this for excerise, if I can lose some pounds and feel better though I'll take it!
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In order for it to be considered a sport you have to be competing against another. So if your personal reason for hunting is competition then it is a sport. For me I don't consider bow hunting a competition so I would say it's not a sport.
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Sport or not - I'm trying to get my game on - the grill!
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Originally posted by ron w:
Hunting, Mountain Climbing, sailing, fishing, shooting and a bunch of other things are sports. Things that are considered sports today such as Baseball, Football, Basketball and a host of others are games. Archery and Bowhunting are a sport! :readit:
Very good!
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Archery is a sport. Hunting and Gardening are Activities. Bow hunting could be considered a sport I guess.
I look at it as the act of collecting food and alleviating stress just like gardening and fishing.
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I've played a variety of sports in my life. A key word in that sentence is "played". My favorite sports were solo activities such as cross-country, track, and mountain bike riding.
For me bowhunting is too important and serious an endeavor to be on my list of sports. In fact, except for purposes of considering this thread, "sport" doesn't even come to my mind when I think of bowhunting.
I don't consider bowhunting "play". When I play I win or lose. When I bowhunt I succeed or fail. Some would offer this difference is really just the words I choose to describe my emotions? But success and failure have deeper and longer-lasting meaning to me than beating a time or a competitor. I distinctly remember my cross-country coach became perturbed in October as my focus turned to the woods instead of the course. I missed only one practice per year and that was opening Saturday of bow season.
I can't recall, even when breaking x-country records (40+ years ago) ever feeling as ecstatic as watching a Doe drop after a receiving a well-placed sharp arrow. She was a Doe before the shot but now she is my Doe.
Bowhunting challenges my knowledge, stamina, skill, determination, patience, and sometimes my tolerance for pain. Hmmm.. some sports do too.
I often run into people who can take or leave bowhunting. They bowhunt when the seasons are open, then put archery away until next year. I wonder what they or I am missing to take bowhunting so casually? For these folks bowhunting is just among things that define them instead of THE thing.
I find myself a bit concerned as I age about what I'll do if someday archery/bowhunting are no longer possible for me. It helps me to read about folks here who are older than I am and still going strong.
Finally, I'll admit I may be too passionate about bowhunting or not passionate enough about other things that matter to a lot of (normal?) folks.
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"Sport hunting" was distinct from "market hunting" and "subsistence hunting," just as "sport fishing" was distinct from commercial fishing.
The connotation of "sport" has changed. "Sport hunting" has a negative connotation that makes it a preferred term in some quarters, used to trivialize the culture of hunting. Many of us obviously share that negative connotation, as it is evident in responses to this thread.
In some contexts, the distinctions between recreational, subsistence, and market hunting are still important. I think "hunting" connotes recreational hunting, at least in the U.S. Labeling other forms would help prevent confusion, e.g., in news article that refer to effects of subsistence or market hunting on species that are now rare or extinct.
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I see archery as a sport only if you shoot competitively. I use to do that and it was very competitive. Now I shoot and hunt for myself. It is something I really enjoy. I feel it brings me closer to my heritage and improves me as a person. I shoot and hunt alone. What I find in the woods is myself and reflection. I can not see that as a sport. I know it means something different for every individual. So it makes it a difficult question. Every person will see it from a different view.
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Bowwild,
right or wrong, normal or twisted, you are not alone in your feeling and holding of certain importance, maybe even inner drive toward bowhunting and the chase.
I tried to stay out of this one and let everybody else think and talk, but what you said is how I feel. It is much more important, much more ingrained, much more a part of what and who I am to be "just a sport". For me anyway's.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this one, only a feeling that each of us has and that feeling is most certainly different, and holds differing importance among every one of us.
ChuckC
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I don't care what a book says, personally it is more important to me than baseball, football, hockey, tennis, NASCAR etc.
It might be a sport to some .......to each his own
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By the book hunting is a sport.
..I'm too ignorant to read that book though.
...I don't consider myself a sportsman.
..even though what I do is called a "sport"
To me a sport is a game. Played for fun.
3-d shooting, football, firearm shooting, etc are sports.
Hunting is hunting. I personally feel that calling it a sport is disrespectful to the animal and to me.
In sports, the teams that play against each other go home afterwards..win or lose.
I wouldn't play a "game" that the goal is to take life.
...there are other words for such actions...combat comes to mind....and that is certainly NO GAME.
If I took an animal's life with the same mindset as shooting a basket, I'd have some serious soul searching to do.
To me hunting is no game.
It's hunting..plain and simple.
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Bowhunting is definitely a sport. Especially with stickbows, we are giving game a "sporting" chance that actually puts the odds in their favor more often than not.
Bill
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Personally, I think we just get way too hung up on terminology which is interpreted differently by everyone using the terms.
I eat what I kill, but can't claim to be hunting to eat. When I look at what I have wrapped up in bows, arrows, clothes that I really wear just for hunting and licenses/tags, I'm paying way more than what the best rib eye, or top sirloin would cost me from my local butcher. I have always enjoyed the tradition, emotions and challenges that I associate with fall colors, smells and getting out in the woods.
I really don't care what someone else calls it. For me it's "hunting".
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Its a sport. If hunting with a bow had to be done every day or week so you could eat and survive then it would not be a sport. Since We do not hunt for survival then its a sport.
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Well you can see my screen name implies it is a sport but when I went with this screen name my truck was the "sport" edition and my dog was named Hunter (still is), and most other screen names I came up with were gone. Also, I don't really care what people think about screen names.
Anyways, back on point. I think the hunting most of us do is actually a sport rather than subsistence hunting. Most people are hunting for the enjoyment of the chase, the challenge of the endeavor and the horns and meat are a bonus. If you really look at it and calculate the cost of your time, equipment etc. it would be cheaper to work your day job (unless you're retired) and buy meat at the store.
I don't look as it as a competitive sport like football or soccer but it is a sporting discipline like fishing. It takes time to become proficient with your weapon of choice and you need to develop hunting skills like planning, patience, tracking, navigation and much more.
Some people balk at it being referred to as a sport but there is always someone with a difference of opinion as to what is right and what is wrong or proper...
As long as you are ethical in your hunting I could care less what you call it, much like the harvest or kill debate.
My chosen sport that I pursue is hunting. I've been playing in the woods since I was a kid and being outdoors still makes me feel like a kid with a bb gun.
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Bowhunting is my lifestyle.
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Monkeyball spelled it out.
A "sport" would be an activity where you are competing either as a team or an individual against others. I think in all reality bow "hunting" would not be a sport for most of us.
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Monkeyball defines it properly.
A "sport" would be an activity where you are competing either as a team or an individual against others. I think in all reality bow "hunting" would not be a sport for most of us.
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It's what I like to do. It doesn't have to be any more than that.
To attach a "label" to it seems like so much fluff about nothing.
It's like arguing about "instinctive" shooting.
In the end....it means squat.
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Originally posted by el greco:
It is not a sport. Words are beginning to lose the true meaning these days.Archery is a sport. Bowhunting is not. Bowhunting is...well .hunting with a bow.
+1
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It's not a sport if only one team knows it's playing.
Hunting is hunting. Maybe there's to much emphasis on goal or point scoring in hunting projected through mass media/internet. For me you can't score a great hunt or day out whether you shoot something or not.
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I concur with El Greco...exactly.
To me, 3D shooting is a "sport". (I love 3D shoots.)
Target practice is a "sport".
Teaching someone to shoot a bow is a "sport".
Bowhunting is hunting with a bow.
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Bowhunting is a method of hunting,"traditional" bowhunting is a way of life as said by R.W.
Originally posted by R. W. Mackey:
Bowhunting is not a sport my friend, it's A Way of Life. For those of us that have stood the test of time, it has consumed
Us, it is on our minds constantly, it is something we do in the best
Or worst of weather, it brings us great joy in way you can't put into words. It's not the killing although that is part of it, it's being one with nature, enjoying what God has given us, it's inner pease..... I could go on and on....
RW
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Of course this thread was surely just meant to give folks a way to describe how they feel about archery/bowhunting. And to read how others feel. We all know it doesn't matter what we call it.
For some whether they call it a sport or not might depend upon how serious they are about sports? When I was active in sports I never spent time daily thinking about running, baseball, or softball. A sport too me then would be something I could take or leave. Archery doesn't fit that description at all.
RW hit a lot of the things that make it tick for me!
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If you meet and talk to folks that are extremely passionate about their endeavors like:
running
sailing
swimming
biking
fishing
rock climbing
softball
rugby
etc....
they will all tell you their endeavor is an all consuming way of life that goes beyond the physical aspect and in to the realm of meeting a psychological need as well.
Which of those do you classify as a "sport"? They too, would tell you it is their "way of life". To some, they can take or leave running. To others, they "need" it, they study it, they are active on internet running forums, they read about it, their entire daily regimine is built around it. For others they feel the same for rock climbing etc...
Per the dictionary (thanks to Centaur on page 1):
Merriam/Webster says;
a physical activity (such as hunting, fishing, running, swimming, etc.) that is done for enjoyment
Certainly, bowhunting definitely meets that definition., our endeavor meets the definition of "sport".
Obviously, the word carries different connotations in it's application and there are many opinions on it.
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Yes, I feel that it is a sport, at least in broad terms. We compete in a different manner from other sports, but we still compete with nature and ourselves. To me, there is no negative connotation to the word sport, but I can understand that some might find it derogatory. Basically, I don't much care how it is referred to, but I enjoy it and do it for my own personal reasons with no real concern for how others define it. To me, it is just fun.
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In my post I forgot to mention that, on several occaisions, when referring to someone's endeavor as a "sport" (be it running, hiking, soccer....) a discussion ensued of the endeavor being "much more than a just a "sport""
It is my experience that many people construe the term "sport" to be insufficient in describing the passion they have for their chosen endeavor.
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When I was hanging three stands this summer it was hot, I was very sweaty with tree trimming shavings all over me and on the way to the third wanting to quit I had to push myself to go further. The top third of my pants were wet from sweat when finished?
When we are about to get a shot on a deer we have to fight an adrenaline rush to make a good shot?
If this is a sport does that make us athletes?