Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: ChuckC on November 10, 2014, 11:27:00 PM
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I know what they represent, but what does the G part mean ? Why G and not any other letter ?
CHuckC
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Here is what I found.
"By the way, the "G" and "H" nomenclature for tine length and circumference measurements does not come from some Latin phrase or other clever reference point. Those letters simply refer to the column locations on the inaugural spread sheet used for recording official B&C scores."
It was on this website describing whitetail scoring.
http://www.santamargaritaranch.net/Scoring_Deer_.html
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The G is something that is not on any of the deer I shoot.
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Fancy jargon that insecure number crunchers use to prop up their fragile ego. I think there is a very general correlation to G-something and the amount of backstrap and tenderloin to be had from a given buck.
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thank you. I feel terribly insecure and old. When I was young we were told to mind our Ps and Qs, but now I guess it is Gs and Fs.
Back to hunting.
CHuckC
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pdk25... thank you for the explanation!
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Since there's always a bunch a elitist buttheads who put down the scorekeeping here is the deal. Scorekeeping from B&C and P&Y are there to keep a record of and glorify the animal while also helping identify regions showing superior genetics. Score systems like Compton's place more on the hunter by awarding bonus points for the hunters method and then trying to say they better represent traditional hunters. Many of the detractors on this site came of as more egotistical about not scoring animals as any hunter who participates in it.
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I figured out what a G2 was in 1969, when I scored my first buck. (I was 13) I just came up from the basement where my fathers first buck is displayed, shot in '55, a 10 pointer that might break 70 inches!!I was having a chuckle at myself thinking back at how we all thought it was a monster. Hell,I used to take it to "show and tell"!
Some people like myself are just born to get all giddy over antlers, they are magic to me. They cast a spell on me.Some people could give a crap.(That is until they kill a big one, then that's all they want to talk about!)
Any how, when somebody tells me they saw a buck with a 20 inch spread, long heavy main beams, 10 inch G2s and 6 inch G3s, I can envision exactly what he looks like, and estimate pretty close to what he'll score.
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Are there any G1s ? I guess I really don't care.
Sorry, I also like big racks, although smaller racks are great too. I guess the saying, a rack in the hand is better than. . . wait, that was something else...., birds and bushes and the like. . whatever.
Thanks for the schooling. :p
ChuckC
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The G1 is the brow tine point.
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I have no idea what the individual letters mean.
Originally posted by bigbadjon:
Since there's always a bunch a elitist buttheads who put down the scorekeeping here is the deal. Scorekeeping from B&C and P&Y are there to keep a record of and glorify the animal while also helping identify regions showing superior genetics. Score systems like Compton's place more on the hunter by awarding bonus points for the hunters method and then trying to say they better represent traditional hunters. Many of the detractors on this site came of as more egotistical about not scoring animals as any hunter who participates in it.
I respectfully disagree, but will not go into it here as it would distract from the original question....and solve nothing.
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I'm not real sure and I'm not much into antlers, but what I suspect is this:
I'm almost sure it has a certain relationship to the G-"spot".
That's all I'm sayin....
:laughing:
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Well, I have shot a lot of deer, but never anything that would be considered a monster. I had to look up the official scoring, but I was always curious about it when people would rattle off the description of a buck they had seen or shot. Buck that most people that ridicule the scoring system would give their eye-teeth to shoot, that is. It is just all a part of the history of the sport and a way of describing the character of antlers. There are other systems out there as well, that don't get into quite as much detail. Yes, I know, you can't eat the horns, a young deer tastes better, blah blah blah. If someone wants to limit themselves and shoot the highest scoring rack possible for them, more power to them. Some would argue that, in general, a higher scoring deer is more likely to be a mature deer and therefore a more difficult trophy to obtain. Kind of like making things more challenging by selecting a traditional bow over a rifle. Not for everyone, but not something to belittle either.
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(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z117/katswal/scoring_wttp1_zps82377e16.gif) (http://s190.photobucket.com/user/katswal/media/scoring_wttp1_zps82377e16.gif.html)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z117/katswal/scoring_wttp2_zpscf8c4785.gif) (http://s190.photobucket.com/user/katswal/media/scoring_wttp2_zpscf8c4785.gif.html)
And in my dreams
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z117/katswal/scoring_walrus2_zpsa85748e7.gif) (http://s190.photobucket.com/user/katswal/media/scoring_walrus2_zpsa85748e7.gif.html)
Walrus is almost my last name!
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What bigbadjon said x2
It's not an ego or insecurity thing for everyone who measures a buck. For some it's a goal setting thing and a challenge to shoot a buck say, over 150 or 125 or whatever. Gene and Barry Wensel do it among other great ethical hunters here. If it's good enough for them it's good enough for me
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Oh boy. I sure didn't mean to be asking about the merits of measuring deer, only about what the names of the points means.
Thanks all. Seeing the scoring sheet and the pix above hammers it home. It is not like tornado's (Fujita scale), It is just about the spot you fill in on the sheet.
Beaunaro. . in this case, yes, the G spot(s), but remember, there are also H spots there to explore ! and on some, that little elusive E spot or two.
ChuckC
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I see no harm in having a commonly understood way of describing a set of antlers. I'm sure there are a few people who honestly don't give a hoot about big antlers. They cut them off and throw them away. But the vast majority of us are facinated by antlers, and most of us would prefer a big set over a small set.
For me, it's not about trying to beat anybody else. It is not a competition. It is simply another way of challenging myself to make the hunt more difficult. We chose to bowhunt versus gun hunt. We chose traditional versus compound. We chose a big buck versus a small one. We are constantly seeking to make our hunts as challanging as we can while still retaining the potential for some level of success.
If the deer herds where I hunt decline to the point where it is very difficult to kill even a small buck I'll be hunting as hard as I can for a small buck. But as it is for me now, if I killed the first buck I would have had an opportunity at this fall I would have missed out on a lot of quality time in the woods.
When we are lucky enough to be able to take a nice deer, we tend to enjoy talking about it and sharing the story with our friends. Being able to say that a buck you killed "had 10 inch G2's" is just a more descriptive way of relating the size than simply saying "he had big long points." So you don't have to be obsessed with "horn porn" in order to appreciate and understand the language being spoken.
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This was all a nasty little prank designed to fool deer hunters and give deer scorers a good laugh. How do I know that? Well...
The first points grown by any young deer are the tips of his main beams. These should have been G1..."Gee....he only has one set of points". The brow tines should be the last 'G' number. "Gee(z)...that dude has a 5th point near his head!" The system knew that was too simple and they wanted some mystery to it, which would require a certified authority to designate whether a point could even have a 'G' number. They reversed the order, and they even refused to give a 'G' number to the last 'G'...so a deer with 5 points on his antler doesn't even have a G5. They crooked us!
Okay....
I'm one of the guys who is fine with whatever scoring and point-designation system a man can devise. It doesn't bother me how they judge a deer, because I don't get mine scored or judged. I'm not against it in any way...I just don't have an interest in it. Gee...see my point?
;)
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This has gotten off track. Never have understood why the hate for the scoring system. Like others have said, it is simply a form of description. We use descriptive terms for almost everything in our world why would antlers be different? Its funny that when someone describes a turkey beard as being 11" long it doesn't provoke so much turmoil?
:deadhorse:
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The reason there is a scoring system for Pope and Young was to establish a record of the effectiveness of the bow and arrow as a legitimate and viable hunting weapon. That data was used to negotiate archery hunting seasons with states fish and game departments.
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This has gotten WAY out of hand!!! But, I honestly have to throw my hat in the ring...
For those of us "imbusles" who "ridicule the scoring system".....
Back in the day... When the B&C and P&Y were founded. Deer (and other game) were what Mother Nature, Created. Today, with QDM,Ranches,Farms, and other management, Deer are farmed,just like livestock! Thank your "Horn Porn" TV shows and DVDs for that... People can't easily shoot naturaly created "Big Bucks" so... They attempt to grow them. Going to a QDM managed ranch, sitting in a stand,watching a field full of huge racked Bucks, trying to decide which one to shoot, is nothing more than going shopping, as far as some of us are concerned. So, if we seem to come off as snobs... I oppologize. When your sitting in a stand,on an unmanaged piece of property, and the HUGEST Buck you have ever seen, walks infront of you and gives you a shot, AND YOU MAKE IT!!! Now THAT, is truely the Buck of a lifetime!!!!!
Just one Old Fart's oppinion.....
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Money can corrupt just about anything
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I am not arguing with you, Chuck, but why worry about what others consider a trophy? People that have large QDMA farms aren't shooting the 2 1/2-3 1/2 deer that most of us would be ecstatic about. They are shooting older deer, that still are a challenge. Different opportunities in different areas of the country, and nothing that can be done about that. At the end of the day, it is still just a method of describing the antlers. It isn't as if there were only smaller bucks before QDMA came along.
If you haven't seen the website, this link shows the 20 top all time boone and crockett whitetail deer, and the vast majority of them were taken before TV "horn porn" was around. Should someone be ridiculed for describing the racks of these deer? That, to me, would be the thing that is ridiculous.
http://www.petersenshunting.com/deer/20-biggest-typical-whitetail-bucks-of-all-time/
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The series of measurements consists of 8 different variables that are named “A” through “H.” Only "D" through "H" are included in the official score.
The G measurements are the length of the various typical antler points on each beam. G1 (or G-1) is the length of the first point, G2 the second, and so on and so on. The H1 (or H-1) is the circumference (or mass) and the first location where circumference measurements are taken, H2 is the second, and so on and so on.
The letters don't really mean anything other than a way to differentiate a specific measurement. Letters are used to eliminate confusion (A – H instead of 1 – 8), because there are already enough numbers on a page when you start scoring a deer.
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Good explanation Tooner.
I will have to admit I get a bit tired of the TV hunters referring to "G2's, 4's, etc. Too much of this kind of reference seems to cheapen the hunt for some folks. I like to hear about "mature deer" and good shots made.
By the way, the record keepers collect a lot more information about the hunt and hunter than the deer on the required affidavit that accompanies the scoring form; Days hunted, deer seen, shots taken, hit locations, time to recovery, equipment, etc.
I've been a PY measurer since 1979. Many state wildlife agencies are proud of the quality of their deer herds and after herd health, PY or BC entries are a descriptive measure. Of course the best agencies are most appreciative of the quality of their sportsmen and women.
Whether you describe "your" deer as a button, spike, forky, basket-rack, 8, 9, or other "point" buck you are just trying to put in words, when a picture isn't available, what your deer looks like. For those familiar with scoring systems the number adds to the description.
Tell one who has measured a lot how many points and the gross and net score and he will have a good mental image of your deer. A little more descriptive than "big-un" or "200 pounder".