Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: tradgreenhorn on December 17, 2014, 04:10:00 PM
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Any body else not seeing deer. I have been hunting hard since oct. 20th had very little activity. Since the gun hunters went at it have only seen two very small does. Not going out tonight. What has happened to our deer heard. I have been hunting the same 120 acres since 1996,and beging last year the number of deer sitings have been way down. Looks like tag soup again this year. :banghead:
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Not being from Michigan, but having lived through several post bad winter kill years here I know how hard it can be on the herd and hunting. I would imagine last winter was HARD on your herd. Hopefully it will come back fairly quickly with the amount of agriculture you have.
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Combination of ehd a couple of years ago, tough winter last year. And liberal anterless tags for quite a few years. Deer numbers are down for sure.
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I'm in northern MI and the two areas I hunt I've got trail camera's out. Everything has been nocturnal the last couple of weeks. On one camera I've had 5 different bucks and 3 different does, one with two fawns and one with a single. On my parents farm, I've got 4 different bucks, one group of two does with two fawns, one doe with a single fawn and a single fawn. I think once the moon phase rolls around and we get a few more days away from muzzleloading season which ended here last Sunday and we'll see some daytime activity.
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Private vs public is a big one too. I live in northeast mi and hunt national forest. My buck pics are still all nocturnal. I have on spot that 2 big 8's and a big 10 made it through gun season but they aren't around in the daylight. In 63 sits I've had 5 bucks in bow range. 4 I could have shot but they weren't legal with our APR's....which is a whole other subject. All these early/late antlerless seasons, and the number of tags they give out doesn't help any, in my not so humble opinion.
In just 4 sits at my mom and dads farm in southern mi I seen 3 bucks all 2.5yo or better but couldn't close the deal on them. ALso seen a couple small bucks too there.
I'm not ready to hang it up yet, but I'm getting burnt out......and ready to get the beagles out for some rabbit hunting.
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About the same here. Public land in the acorns all activity at night. I did shoot a buck with a rifle but it's been real slow.
I live north and I'm pretty sick of the bumbling herd management. Down state has the most deer but we get the bulk of the hunters. The private land down suffers less because of the controlled access. With the youth hunts and everything else , it's wholesale slaughter around me. I gun hunted on private land w/ APR and saw a noticeable difference there.
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I have seen 6 deer all season . only one buck with a small rack . Been very disappointing .
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This has been one of the better years for me in the last few. At least seeing deer. But unfortunatly a sprained elbow is gonna keep me sidelined for the rest of this season barring a miracle. Can't begin to draw a 30# bow yet. Good news is I can get out and do some scouting.
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I didn't get to hunt my place in da UP this year, but the trail cams showed activity. I did notice very little buck activity at all until mid October and then they all started hanging out. I saw 8 different ( we drew out the antlers to compare) antlered bucks, ranging from maybe 1" spikes to two that were actually decent for the area. None were huge by any stretch. And I missed it all.
ChuckC
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Strange season for me as well but not bad in any way. I saw way more bucks than does - like 3:1 or better from the stand and more big bucks than ever in my lifetime. Watched 4 PnY or darn near one night for hours in the daylight out in the bean field in front of me and at least 6 confirmed different 125"-150" bucks on the small 40 acres I hunt along with many, many rag horns from 4-8pts. That said, I never shot a deer in the bow season. Been a long time since I have not shot 3 or more but I just did not want to drop the string with all the nice bucks around and the only real opportunity was a 125ish wide 8 that walked straight at me, right under my stand and out of my life. Never had a shot even though I watched him for 10 minutes through my stand :)
Just hunting and put a big smile on my face. On a good note I still have been getting some of the big boys on cams post the gun season.
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The deer are gone. Very low herd numbers. Many reasons have already been listed above. I don't know if the DNR has what it is going to take to get things healthy again in the next few years. Thank God for turkey season. rat'
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It has been slow for me also, I did have good chances in OCT and most of Nov but now it has slowed up a lot. I have the last two weeks of the year off so I'm hoping to put a doe in the freezer.
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same here hunted VERY hard with only 2 shot opportunities all season a young 3 and 4pt and this is a area where weve been practiceing QDM for. almost 5 years
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I hunt 640 acres of state land that borders 2 privates leases havn't seen any does this year at all, since last winter deer sign has been minimal! since October I have seen one small spike with maybe w 2in antlers! That is it for the whole season! As stated winter kill, coyotes, wolves, youth hunts, tribal permits (5 per person) unlimited landowner tags for years, plus hunters shooting everything that walks its no wonder the numbers are down. Plus habitat management up here is non exsistant the woods are way over mature, not much food to sustain much anything! Lots of squirrels though I think that is what I am going to hunt from now on and forget about the deer!
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I, too, have had a much slower season. I've had only one shot opportunity and got busted. I have three trail cams out on my 30acres and most deer movement has been nocturnal for the past two weeks. I have seen a few bucks on my camera that made it through the firearm season so I am thankful for that. I'll probably be able to get out a couple more times. It isn't over until it is over.
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I seen more deer than you can shake a stick at. For the first time up at my hunting lodge I have been seeing a few bucks. The deer numbers are way out of the norm.(too many does) During febuary we took about 50 deer with crop damage permits. Dave and Don McKeller hunted uo there this year for 1 week and saw about 60 deer. Yes some of the deer were the same ones sighted before but 60 sightings in 1 week is still pretty good. My brother in law who owns the land I lease was hoping more deer were taken this year than what was taken.(8 so far) I'm going up after christmas and take a kid to get her first deer. The area is in Millersburg in Presque Isle county. I'm trying to come up with the cash to buy an add space on tradgang to advertize my bowhunting only lodge. I'm close but not quite there yet. But yes the bean and corn fields up there are just lowsy with deer. Also a lot of the state land up there goes unhunted.
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I think the EHD damage and an exceptionally cold winter last year may have had some effect. I think the deer are still around in good numbers down south here, based on the tracks I've seen. Deer kill numbers are going to be VERY low this year. Many of my friends have taken really good bucks, but I sure wasn't one of them. I let two fork-horns walk and a large doe with 2 good sized fawns and that was the last I saw of deer so far.
The private area where I had planned on hunting has been thoroughly flogged to death with baiting and trail cam checking and most of the deer have gone nocturnal. Tracks and deer scat everywhere, but no hair in sight.
The huge areas of standing corn may have been a big factor too. Farmers have been unable to get out in the fields to harvest it and what better place to bed down for the day where they can bed and feed out of the wind (and out of sight too!)
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Very slow for me too. Only saw 2 bucks all season and the same 7 does a few times. Everyone I talk to says its the same for them.
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Snow cover reveals the deer population in a given area.
Take the time to hike areas after a fresh snowfall, and you will be able to see just how many deer there are in a given area.
Last January I did this very thing several times in several areas in the N.E. Lower, and I can tell you there were VERY few deer there BEFORE we had any winter loss.
If you have good numbers of deer in your area, consider yourself lucky...and hope that it remains that way.
The Michigan DNR has, IMHO, SEVERELY mismanaged the deer herd for well over a decade. I am not alone in this thinking.
I truly do not believe ANYTHING they (the DNR) bring forth as far as harvest reports, license sales OR pre season deer populations.
I believe hunter numbers are UNDER REPORTED...I believe harvest figures are OVERESTIMATED, and that populations are OVERESTIMATED.
Money truly is the root of all evil...whitetail management in Michigan revolves around MONEY.
Our DNR is constantly banking on the adaptability of the whitetail.
All a hunter can do is NOT shoot a deer?
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Well said Bonebuster. I'll be hunting out of state next year and as soon as I can arrange it I will be moving out of state.
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It has been a wierd season for much of Michigan to be sure. I am up in Charlevoix county and although there are lots of deer around I haven't seen a legal deer (we have the new Quality deer Management thing here for the second year)during daylight hours since the middle of October around here. I spent a couple of days during firearm season hunting in the Kalkaska area and saw a ton of deer but the only buck I saw was about 60 yards away and I was never able to close up the distance to him, everything else were does. That being said I have still had a good time trying.
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You all can try and redirect the blame for your own failures but the true is you were in the wrong place when you were hunting in order to make a kill is all. That's hunting. More deer doesn't mean your odds will be better if you're in the wrong spot. If I don't kill something it's no ones fault but mine because I was in the right place at the right time.
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This has been one of our better years for seeing and taking deer. I have seen more bucks than normal. Hunting in a APR area now for two years if the young bucks that I saw make it thru the winter months there will be a good crop of deer next fall.
I took two deer for the first time in many years.
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Killinstuff- I for one am not redirecting blame for my own failures. If I hunt hard all season and end up with nothing but tags I'm ok with that and it makes me work harder the next season. But I've lived and hunted in five different states including Iowa, Oklahoma, Illinois, Ohio and now Michigan. If I were to rank those five on deer hunting Michigan comes in last. For fishing it would rank #1. When you hunt a state that does a good job managing deer like Iowa you see a stark contrast with a state like Michigan. And I agree, it's not about numbers of deer alone. It's about age structure and buck to doe ratio. I'm not sure why a state like Michigan doesn't copy the management strategies of a state like Iowa. They charge over $500 for a non-resident tag and have more applicants every year than tags. Just my 2 cents; and honestly, most folks don't even think it's worth that.
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Originally posted by Bonebuster:
Snow cover reveals the deer population in a given area.
Take the time to hike areas after a fresh snowfall, and you will be able to see just how many deer there are in a given area.
Last January I did this very thing several times in several areas in the N.E. Lower, and I can tell you there were VERY few deer there BEFORE we had any winter loss.
If you have good numbers of deer in your area, consider yourself lucky...and hope that it remains that way.
The Michigan DNR has, IMHO, SEVERELY mismanaged the deer herd for well over a decade. I am not alone in this thinking.
I truly do not believe ANYTHING they (the DNR) bring forth as far as harvest reports, license sales OR pre season deer populations.
I believe hunter numbers are UNDER REPORTED...I believe harvest figures are OVERESTIMATED, and that populations are OVERESTIMATED.
Money truly is the root of all evil...whitetail management in Michigan revolves around MONEY.
Our DNR is constantly banking on the adaptability of the whitetail.
All a hunter can do is NOT shoot a deer?
Ding, ding, ding...we have a correct answer. Deer hunting in Michigan is depressing in all but a VERY few tiny pockets.
The DNR has mismanaged the deer herd for much more than one decade--it is closer to three. They should have never allowed the population explosion of the 80s followed by the unchecked slaughter of the 2000s. Having hunted deer in at least a dozen other states I am confident in saying Michigan has NO deer herd management other than sell as many tags as possible.
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I hunt the Pigeon River State Forest and have for years. I also used to clear and plant for the state. There is a 20 mile or so loop we used to drive and any time of year you saw 20-30 deer and always a few racked bucks ( while they still had their antlers). You can drive that loop now and not see a deer. I see the timber is being cut but I don't see the planting at all. No planting food crops, these danged youth hunts, crossbows, baiting have really changed the deer activity in the Pigeon. I think the youth hunts take out a lot of bucks, that never get to breed. I don't want to say this too loud though, if the DNR figures out that all the deer movement is nocturnal, they will have a night crossbow youth hunt before the rut, to sell more tags. My rant. I sound like an old fogey, saying it's not like it used to be, but it really isn't. Sorry I was so long winded. Have a good weekend Guys.
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Ehd, extremely harsh winter, coyotes, way to many tags, deer seasons of some form from September till January 1st, all adds up to a lot less deer. I will love deer hunting till the day I die, but as far as seeing deer, this year was very disappointing. The numbers are way ,way down where I hunt. And it's the same with everyone I talk to. I saw more bucks than does this year, and I only saw two mature does the whole season. Very odd year. Wasn't much of a rut around us either. I keep my cameras out till January , and since the gun opener, 99 percent of my pics are from midnight to 6 am.
Not trying to sound like a whiner , just telling it how it is. On the positive side, I saw some of the nicest bucks I've seen, this year. As did the neighbors. At least a couple have made it so far(nocturnal), so I am optimistic about next year already. Good luck to all.
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I hunted 1 1/2 days with my brother and dad about 15 miles north of K'zoo the third weekend in October. Had 14 deer within range first morning in a grove of white oaks, a doe and fawn that night then the wind picked up pretty good and nothing but squirrels the next morning. The corn was still standing in most of the nearby fields and I'm sure that impacted deer habits. Another hunter on the same property got a nice 9 point this year.
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I don't know where the north-south line is but I know people see a lot more deer south of me.
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I have no evidence to base this opinion on, but I'm thinking all the TV trophy shows and the aggressive marketing of bait and cameras just has a ton of hunters moving around through the woods from late July through the various seasons. Where the number of archery hunters used to be small, everyone now has a bow (mostly with wheels on it) and are out there whenever possible before season opens scouting.
We always used to see herds of deer (mostly does, but a few bucks) hanging out in the evening at the rear of our lighted skeet field. Last year and this year, the area has been beaten to death with trail cam checking several times/day and bait being put out in the bedding areas. That will certainly make a deer nocturnal.
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Chain2 is right about the youth hunts. I had to tell a lot of people NO to hunting at the lodge who wanted to "let the kids get a deer". I know they seen the same deer I saw out in the bean fields. I just didn't think it would be fair to the bowhunters to go to my archery only lodge and to have bucks taken out with guns earlier. I am going to take a kid there to hunt december 28 for 1 day but thats it. After this it will be 100% archery to everyone. But yes the youth hunt and early antlerless hunts take a lot away from our state.
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What percentage of Michigan hunters are responsible hunters? I bet the number is quite high, there has to be much more good than bad. That leads me to this: Who is killing all these deer we cant find if most of us know better?
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Responsible in this case is a relative term. I think slot of hunters are I it for the destination not the journey. I know my posts might sound like I am also but that isn't true. I like seeing deer , I line getting close to deer. How many crossbows would be sold if everyone tried to get within. 20 yds. Remember when they were just for the older or handicapped hunters. To most of the hunters I interact with , the end justifies the means. I always tell them I haven't developed the hate for the whitetail that they have, when they tell me their hunting practices, i.e. Baiting, hunting in heated closed blinds, hanging lights over bait etc. I am by the way the only one who shoots traditional.
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Imagine the impact felt when wheely bows stole the scene from glass bows in 1960-70 something. Wonder if all the traditional hunters blamed the wheely guys for a lack of deer? After all, that weapon is incredibly powerful compared to theirs.
Id like to see more deer as well, but the journey is really all I care about. Deer or not. I make all my own bows and arrows and LOVE hunting them. Kill anything or not.
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If you are into "the journey" hunt better. Deer are still there. Why blame others because you didn't put yourself in the right place? Why care what others do? I don't get it when guys handicap them selves on propose but then complain that it isn't fair that everyone else has better odds of killing something. You know what you're getting yourself into so what's the bitch? It's a wonder there's a single deer left in Michigan with all they have to over come just to survive daily, their life cycle being extremely short and only giving birth to 1 or 2 babies a year.
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Nobody's bitching or complaining. They are stating an observation about deer numbers in their area. I hunt the Maple River State Game Area which was devastated by EHD 2 years ago. That year I only saw a couple of deer which was understandable. Last year I missed a 6pt,shot a 8pt and had another chance at another 8pt. This year I saw several deer the first 10 days of the season then for some reason they went nocturnal. There was plenty of sign, scraps, rubs. all of my mock scraps were getting attention. I've never seen a season like this. Its not because of the compound or crossbow shooters, I just can't explain why the deer went nocturnal. The deer numbers are down, we all know that. In my area it is a FACT. Also on the private land around the state land that I hunt has been very well set up with cover and food plots. Its legal and there is nothing wrong with it. I would do the same if I owned the property. I just have to change my tactics every season if I want to be successful.
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Here's the other thing, I don't believe deer "go nocturnal" . The just don't go to the spot you're hunting during day light sometimes more than likely cause they know somethings up. But they are up and moving around someplace else during the day.
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I've seen NOCTURNAL, live and in action! It does happen, a lot. Some pressure is all it takes, esp if deer are mature, including does.
I've watched em get up, walk to the edge of a field, a whole 20 yds, and wait until dark to walk out into the field. It was really kind of eye opening. One nice buck literally stood there, just looking around, until dark, where they all went out tearing around the field during PEAK rut. Nov 8.
That particular time was in an area with very little pressure. They just get smart.
On a totally different note, I saw a booner that was not shy at all in the same area, several days in a row. Might have missed him a couple times one night...lol. He never wised up because a longbow is but a whisper.
I believe in nocturnal deer for sure.
Checking cameras and all the activity in the woods definitely can put em down. They always have plenty of dark hours to breed.
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I can head out RIGHT now, read some deer sign, set up, and have a good chance at killing a deer.
This DOES NOT mean I should.
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Overspine, that doesn't mean they are nocturnal. That just means they won't go into an open field during the day. That deer was someplace during the day doing deer stuff.
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My place in da UP has no pressure. Yet the deer are very nocturnal all the time. Sure i see some movement during the day, mainly does and fawns, but the occasional buck. I have several trail cams out all the time and the pix I get are pretty typically in the dark.
CHuckC
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Three of us went for a mid day scout on some state land. we only went to check a oak ridge tha t we have hunted in the past. There where so many acorns that is like walking on marbles. In years past they would be gone. We never saw any rubs or scrapes in this area. Again only going by what we have seen from years past. This area of state land does not get hunted very hard.
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I have hunted the same 30sq miles or so since I was 15 years old. State ground. I used to shoot a lot of deer. I used to see a lot of deer. I feel I am a better hunter. With grouse hunting early I feel I spend a lot if time in the woods. There simply are a lot less deer here than there used to be. We all have listed symptoms but I think the bottom line is, poor management period. By everyone period. I think the APR's will help but it is only a start. I also think that our area can't be managed the same as the downstate farming areas nor the UP. I am not saying this is solely a DNR issue. I've hunted in other states and they all seem to do it better.
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I hunt around where I live and there is a stark difference in deer sightings and shot opportunities from 2013 to 2014...drastically down in this year (2014) and not one sighting of a decent buck. The crops were the exact same both years, corn. 2014 was definitely a banner year and 2013 an unusually bad year compared to all other years In 2013 I would see 3 to 7 bucks almost every time out and saw 3 really nice shooter bucks...when corn was up and cut. Despite a lot of shot opportunities in 2013, I choose not to shoot anything...just enjoyed seeing lots of deer/buck action. Contrast this with lucky to see a single deer when out and saw a buck or two only a few times out in 2014. The overwhelming majority of the times out this year I saw nothing. The only differences from 2013 to 2014 is there were standing corn throughout bow and into gun. The last two corn fields were cut the last day of gun. I did see three bucks one morning in muzzleloader but northing the other times out. I was blaming the standing corn but even when it was cut the deer sightings did not change other then a single morning. I do not know what the cause is for this drastic difference is...but it is significant.
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maybe the deer don't go nocturnal but in December they sure show up later in the evening, like closer to dark.
No-one is hunting my property or the property that borders my property. My son and family live on our property. Spoke with him today. Seeing very few deer, late and closer to dark.
I would call that, going nocturnal.
I think most everyone who has been hunting for years knows that the later in the year it gets the later the deer come out especially after gun season and in December.
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Originally posted by Chain2:
There simply are a lot less deer here than there used to be. We all have listed symptoms but I think the bottom line is, poor management period. By everyone period. I think the APR's will help but it is only a start.
If low deer numbers are your concern, MAPR will not help that. MAPR, by design, are intended to shift the harvest pressure from young bucks to does. This will result in more bucks making it to their second year, but will result in even lower deer populations overall.
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I have to post the other side of my argument. Last year I had the veneer cut from out place and bought a veneer cut 20 from the timber co. adjacent to ours. Deer movement interrupted last year. This year I had a firewooder in there. He was supposed to be done 1 Nov. He actually left 2 weeks ago. My first sit in two years out back last night. 8 deer including one 4 pt. All deer appeared fat and healthy. All within shooting range. Trying to build up the population, I passed. I had a ball though.