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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: PUDDLE JUMPER on February 12, 2015, 10:24:00 PM
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Interested on how good of a job they do overall. What they are good at, what gets under your skin. Most of all what would you suggest to improve it.
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This could get good :campfire:
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Even in a populous state like Washington with limited hunting opportunities, I have to say our dept. of wildlife does a pretty good job. It has to be a challenge with the limited budget to keep everyone happy.
As a side note, my hunting partner and I have volunteered to survey areas that may have herds of elk infected with a hoof disease. Our department is continually trying to maintain healthy populations.
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Like most agencies a very large majority of W&F employees here are hard-working, good people. Major problem here is funding, little for the Dept. of Wildlife and Fisheries and for that matter roads, education etc. We have a State Legislature and Governor who bray about what Fiscal Conservatives they are but what they have delivered in 8 years is changing a billion dollar state surplus into a billion and a half deficit.
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I try to look thru their eyes. Our department has to now work thru this drought, many hunter applications and too small game populations, fiscal constraints, and soon forest fires. I guess they do ok, but frustration at lack of tags is still there.
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PA has a lot of odd laws. Several years ago, we had a guy heading the Fish and Game dept who had very good ideas. Problem is, his ideas went against a long history of retarded management. Most people didn't like the initial results of the changes that were made, so they ousted the guy before giving things a chance to turn around. I find many hunters are still unhappy with our deer population, but if you ask me, it is getting healthier. No more skin and bones deer, and the bucks have a chance to grow bigger racks because of point restrictions. Our Bear season is quite good. First week is archery only, second week is mixed weapon. some zones even have a third week after a one week break due to firearm deer season. Small game is good all around in my opinion. Trapping season is a little weird, but I don't do much of that anymore.
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Colorado has some work to do.
I'll leave it at that, but let's just say they have not got it figured out.
They cannot seem to figure out how the bear and cat population is do high and the deer is do low :knothead:
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I personally think the Missouri Department of Conservation does a FANTASTIC job. They are well funded and they are well represented by qualified biologists that I trust to be capable when it comes to making the right decisions for Missouri. However their governing Commission is subject to political influence from many angles AND they are under attack right now.
--State legislators are proposing legislation that would severely hamper the ability of the department to function at it's current level.
--Groups of special interest residents are lobbying for changes to many of the state's seasons structures, allowed equipment and bag limits.
--There is a lot of controversy right now over the potential of allowing the use of CROSSBOWS without restriction during the regular archery season.
--There is a possibility that the archery limit for bucks may change from two per year to one per year. For 2014 they reduced the number of antlerless tags issued per hunter per county and for 2015 they have already reduced the number of days in the regular rifle season. These changes have many residents upset.
--In addition Missouri has confirmed several cases of Chronic Wasting Disease.
--Some new legislation on the floor this year includes a reduction of the 1/8th% sales tax on certain goods to 1/16th% which would cost the department 55 MILLION dollars annually. A second piece of legislation would make hunting and fishing licenses free to all residents which would cost the department another 40 MILLION annually. A third piece would require the Department of Conservation to reimburse automobile owners up to 500 dollars in the event of a collision with a deer.
I don't think the legislation will pass but it's scary to see the way our MDC is being attacked. It doesn't bode well for the future.
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Wisconsin, phfftt. Chicken yesteryear, feathers today.
Lou
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They have no clue what they are doing here.
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Ga's policies are reasonable enough and biologically sound. They have a lot to deal with. From watching the local hunting forum, I have concluded that most GA hunters are wildlife biologists that somehow got their degrees without mastering the English language.
My main concern is our total lack of law enforcement. Aside from your own morality, there is no reason to follow a single game or fish law here. Even if you were to get caught, the fine likely wouldn't be more than what you had in your wallet at the time.
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Things have taken a turn for the worse the past 10 years or so. Sportsman used to have a voice. The dept. has pulled back, no more season setting meetings, no more interaction with the biologists. It was healthy and informative. It has now become toxic.
We have Game wardens taking to the media slamming hunters, biologists disregarding thier own statistics when setting seasons, the director sending employees to seminars to "Discover who their consumers are".
I was just discussing this matter with another sportsman a few days ago. Its truly sad.
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In Michigan, license sales and money generated seems to be the main focus. Science be damned. Early firearm season for does 2 weeks before archery season. Big insurance company lobbies influencing season dates and bag limits. The only real success I see here is wild turkeys.
We used to have a lot of pheasants here. I saw a rooster last week. First one in 5 years.
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I live in western North Carolina. Right smack in the middle of the smoky mountains. Deer populations seem to be on the rise, after many many years a severely diminished herd sizes. At the turn of the last century up through the 1940's the forest service "select cut" almost all the mast bearing trees out of most of the public land. This is poplar country now. Ain't many game animals that can survive on poplar stamens. Turkey reintroduction in the '80's has been a huge success however, and we now enjoy very healthy wild turkey numbers.
One thing about deer hunting in western NC that I absolutely loathe are the doe harvest laws. Does can be taken in bow season at any time. Once rifle season opens up ALL doe harvests are forbidden with the exception of one or two "doe days" throughout the rifle season. So you start with herd numbers that are already low, then every spike and scrub buck coming and going gets blasted because guys can't kill does. This has been so my entire life. Makes for extremely poor herd management, in my opinion.
All that said I do most of my deer hunting in central Tennessee, where I have nothing but good things to say about wildlife management practices.
Jake
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The best in the USA! Great deer- thanks to 1 buck rule in 1992.
Largest elk herd east of MS and larger at 10,000+ than some western states.
Sept-Jan deer season.
Recurve only on 1st and 3rd Wednesday's of the month--just kidding about this one!!!
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Sometimes I think they are managing the forests for pine tree production with no consideration for wildlife. Deer bag limits seem to be set and kept very high to please insurance companies. Granted, I don't know a lot about their methods, but I do know that a lot of us are seeing considerably fewer deer.
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Used to see game on every outing when I was young, now not so much. Poor management, poaching, loss of habitat and greedy hunters are the reasons in my opinion. Some areas of the state hold good numbers, but in a lot of cases these areas have limited hunting access. I have gone a whole season with out seeing a deer more than once.......
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FL isn't to bad in my opinion. Season is long, mid September through mid January here in the north. Starts earlier in the south and lasts longer to the west. A lot of the WMA's are imposing point restrictions, usually 3 per side. This is helping us get bigger racked bucks. Does are fair game during our bow season with doe days and antlerless tags for muzzle and rifle. I don't like the idea of trappers catching wild hogs when they could have mini-seasons for hunters. They are contemplating a bear season here for the first time in a very long time.
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Depends on where you hunt in Pa. you'll get different opinions. If you like bear and turkeys there are lots. If you want to see deer you probably don't want to hunt public property around here...and I think that is where most of the hunters go. The big woods as we know them upstate the deer herd has been decimated and you have the DNR and insurance companies that want all the deer dead so our game commission does just that. I would agree that our antlers are getting bigger but we also lost a quarter of our hunting population and they wonder why. Hard to keep a kid interested sometimes if he's not seeing deer. So I guess my answer would be OK. But could get better.
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New York is a very diverse state so different areas have different problems. On Long island they extended our season and reduced the distance that you had to be from a house to be able to hunt with a bow which is a big plus. In our public hunting areas I think they fail the test though. Some spots they only allow two hunters and it might be 200 acres. I think they have it set for shotgun hunters and that makes sense but I think during bow season they should double the amount that can hunt these properties. Another thing is the rampant poaching and illegal baiting. Everybody know who these guys are but the DEC won't do a thing about it. The unofficial ruling is that if homeowners aren't complaining do what you want. They just want the deer population down no matter what.
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I just moved to Wenatchee Wa from Prineville Oregon. It was disappointing to learn that jackrabbitt season is only a couple of months here as opposed to year round in Oregon. Also Washington does not have a traditional only week for dear like Oregon has. I kinda feel like I'm whining now
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Ohio's division of wildlife has mismanaged our resources to the point of ridiculousness. There is very little rabbit or pheasant---the division does little to nothing to promote habitat and the farmers remove more and more fencerows and woodlots every year. The deer herd has been decimated due to 9 deer a year limits (8 does taken=16-24 deer that won't be around next year), rampant issuance of "nuisance" permits, and coyotes. The division is concerned with pleasing insurance companies and farmers, neither entity contributes to wildlife...
Add in the circus within the division---recent allegations that administrators allowed out of state game wardens to use their (administrators) home addresses to purchase Ohio licenses and avoid the out of state costs (you know "professional" courtesy) and the scandal of last year---game wardens hunting on the clock and it is evident that they need reform starting from the top down.
Ohio division of wildlife is fine driven---they make the rules very complicated to understand and then pounce with the tickets and fines at the first chance. Ohio used to have great hunting, but it is getting harder and harder to find now-a-days...
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Originally posted by Bowwild:
The best in the USA! Great deer- thanks to 1 buck rule in 1992.
Largest elk herd east of MS and larger at 10,000+ than some western states.
Sept-Jan deer season.
Agree with Roy on this one. Our state wildlife department has done a great job IMO.
My only wish is that the quail populations could be brought back. But that is a habitat/predation issue. I love training bird dogs but there isn't much need for one anyone here.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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I think Michigan DNR has a huge challenge. I am not certain they will ever be able to strike an acceptable balance among the differing stakeholders. We have well over a million hunters and very differing opinions on what a successful hunt means, i.e. any deer, any buck, older buck etc....
Different areas of the state have very different needs from a herd standpoint. I hunted southern Michigan for many years (mostly agricultural)and we needed does killed. I recently bought some property in north central Michigan (mostly rolling oaks) and it has very different needs in my opinion. We should not be killing does and we don't on my property. However the southern area of my DMU needs some does taken. They base the doe harvest on the past three years population and harvest estimates, but they don't include the immediate prior year. So if we have a really bad winter, like last year, they can easily issue way too many permits. And they have.
Also, we can kill two bucks in most areas and only the second one needs to have at least 3/4 points on one side depending on the area. Way too many young bucks are killed in my opinion, but again many hunters would rather kill a young buck over a doe, even if the herd is way out balance or the area has more does than it can carry.
D.P.
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I truly wish I could speak positive about the WV DNR's ability to manage wildlife in our state but I just can't. It seems (at least in southern WV) it's about the all mighty dollar to them. My opinion is there are WAY too many antlerless tags available in areas that just don't have the numbers to support it. I'm hoping with us coming off a very low kill year that they will rethink the amount of tags for antlerless deer for the next 2-3 years. I know everyone thinks you should kill antlerless and manage bucks and grow bigger antlers BUT, bucks don't give birth and, the little ones don't fall out of trees. Just saying.
jus' my 2cents
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Feel your pain sswv!
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I think of myself as a big picture guy. When I was 12 and just learning to hunt, Ohio was nobody's hunting destination. Very, very few deer statewide. No turkeys to hunt. No coyotes. Small game was hit-or-miss. You didn't eat a lot of venison back then. Since then, all these animals have reached abundant levels and in some cases TOO abundant in some areas. There is disagreement on wildlife management here, but the ODNR clearly points out that Ohio wildlife is managed in the interests of the state and all its residents. That's tough for hunters to hear, but I have no problem with it generally. I don't want wildlife managed specifically to make hunters happy; nor the same for farmers or insurers or motorists or politicians. I think management should be a compromise between special interests and wildlife health.
I don't have time or qualifications to write a book on Ohio's wildlife management strategies as well as my opinions of them. I do know that today I personally have far more quality hunting opportunities (including infinitely more game to hunt) than I did over 40 years ago. In the big picture, that's progress. I live in a part of the state which has relatively abundant game, low human population, rough terrain, decent nutrition, and much private land. Most states have something comparable, where conditions combine to make better hunting but less favorable living for people. Game populations can never be evenly distributed around a state, and access to hunt them is often uneven as well. It all combines to produce a variety of views and opinions on wildlife management, but for now I am satisfied that Ohio is doing it more right than wrong.
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I believe most of Iowa's problems are due to agriculture and the ag lobby. I feel that our DNR does a pretty good job with the money it can spend without the politicians interference. Iowa passed a bill which will provide sustainable funding to our natural resources the next time there is a sales tax increase. It will provide millions to our natural resources. Much like Missouri has. Iowa Farm Bureau was actively campaigning against the passage of that legislation, but our public voted it in. Iowa is the most changed State in the country in regard to our natural resources. Something has to change. I think our DNR will do a good job when it does.
Our deer management plan was/is highly influenced by politics. Overall the IDNR had a fair and sensible strategy in my opinion, but Farm Bureau and other interests really got their hands in the mix. Our herd has been hit pretty hard as a result. Unfortunately, a lot of people who don't take a look at the facts, blamed the IDNR for this. When in reality farm and insurance lobby really molded the amount of antlerless deer that were killed. A good friend of mine left a high ranking IDNR position because of the political poison. When politics and money dictate wildlife management everyone looses.
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:campfire: This one looks really interesting, too many special interest groups with too much influence in too many states, politics deciding how wildlife should be managed. I haven't seen a pheasant here in Michigan in several years, other than around the hunting preserves where you have to be a member and pay to hunt them. The only streams I can find native brook trout are in the U.P. anymore, our deer seasons start in mid September now...with rifles, and shotguns and go through the first of January. I think we here in Michigan have the potential for a good deer herd, if the politics is left at the door, and we can somehow as hunters and individuals come together and agree on how things should be managed. Just my two cents worth.
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I am disgusted with our Division of Wildlife Resources. In my area, in the last three years they have been selling permits like they're going out of style. In 2012 they sold 1450 anterless elk tags. In 2013 they sold 2000. I didn't even look last year I was so disgruntled. I heard they sold 175 limited entry big bull tags. It's a joke. Four years ago there were nice elk herds all over. Now you are lucky if you see one set of tracks. They used to have trail rides and helicopter flights to check on the herds. Now they do it with computer modeling. If you try to call the area biologist you get a voice mail and no return call. You can even go to the RAC meetings and voice your concerns. Nothing happens. I don't know if they are just trying to make money off of tags or they are just seriously misinformed about the numbers of animals left. I am not optimistic about our future elk herds. I do not have first hand knowledge of other areas. This is the Wasatch Mountain/Currant Creek area.
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wisconsin, worst dnr, very poor management, along with the worst govenor, dnr is all about the money,and the other guy is a crook
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Michigan has a unique set of problems as Dave Pagel posted. I honestly do not think our state can turn things around due to these factors. At least the Turkey hunting is still good. rat'
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How true riverrat2 back in the day I'd wonder how many I was gonna see and what I was gonna see bowhunting deer in southwestern lower Michigan. I wasn't worried about not seeing anything. 2 seasons ago my count was 7 deer for the whole season. The number of firearm days is slowly catching up with the archery seasons that combined with a liberal tag system equals alot less deer.
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I don't necessarily know if NY is good or bad but one thing I would like them to return is Officers to the field.
I don't mind being asked for a license. I feel poaching and trespassing here is an enormous issue.
They used to send biologists to the field too. if they do now, its incognito.
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Illinois is such a corrupt state as it is, it's not hard to believe the DNR is run by lobbyists. I sure wish I could say we have a top notch system here, but we don't. Our taxes should reflect a world class state in every aspect.
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Originally posted by sagebrush:
I am disgusted with our Division of Wildlife Resources. In my area, in the last three years they have been selling permits like they're going out of style. In 2012 they sold 1450 anterless elk tags. In 2013 they sold 2000. I didn't even look last year I was so disgruntled. I heard they sold 175 limited entry big bull tags. It's a joke. Four years ago there were nice elk herds all over. Now you are lucky if you see one set of tracks. They used to have trail rides and helicopter flights to check on the herds. Now they do it with computer modeling. If you try to call the area biologist you get a voice mail and no return call. You can even go to the RAC meetings and voice your concerns. Nothing happens. I don't know if they are just trying to make money off of tags or they are just seriously misinformed about the numbers of animals left. I am not optimistic about our future elk herds. I do not have first hand knowledge of other areas. This is the Wasatch Mountain/Currant Creek area.
Down south it's not to bad... yet. I'm from Nevada and considering the dry environment they have to work with, I always felt they did a good job.
Utah however is another story, especially when it comes to elk. What I can't understand is why they put the rifle hunt right in the middle of the rut? Rifle success rates run at 90 to 98%!! It's a slaughter! If they moved the rifle season into October behind muzzy which should also be in Oct, the success rate would go down and they could sell more tags and move more guys through the system, just like every other state with an elk herd. However, suggest that on some forums and the rifle guys whine and cry and scream bloody murder. They would would rather wait 20 to 25 years to draw a tag and have an almost guaranteed kill with no work, than draw twice in 20 years and actually have to hunt.
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Don't get me going on NJ!
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Overall Kentucky does a great job. The state does a fair job of acquiring land but a fairly large percentage of the population hunts. Some good work is being done with upland habitat but a long way to go. Elk, deer, turkey seem to be doing fine.
Outlaw culture is rampant where I live. LE can only do so much but I would like to see more emphasis. A lot of deer and turkey killed by wives that don't hunt.
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Here in Michigan there is a very noticeable difference in the amount of road kill . Not to many years ago you would see deer buy the side of the road all the time , but the last few years you don't see very many at all .
Also with the cross bows and the early hunts , and the uncontrolled off road vehicles , there is to much pressure on the wildlife .
I can't help but think that our deer herd is not as large as the DNR claims .
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Fl does pretty well. The state has acquired large tracts of land and the less property that is available for development is good in my book. The new antler restrictions are a good idea, so no more spikes. Also xbows are only allowed on private land (unless you have a disabled permit)thankfully. Im also fortunate to live on the zone border so I get two months of archery season...which in fl means I'm almost completely by myself.
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West Virginia has been doing a good job, a long archery season, liberal amounts of deer allowed and a great program of getting the black bear numbers up. We are having a big problem now, the state is trying to take away from the DNR the overseeing of deer farms and giving control to the dept. of agriculture. The DNR has done a great job of keeping diseases out of state but I'm afraid that will be lax with the Dept. of Ag.They want to sell deer meat the same as livestock. We have a battle going on over this legislature.
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In Illinois the DNR have hired sharpshooters killing deer over bait at night to "manage" the deer herd. Interestingly they havent dropped the amount of permits they sell to the public. Add to that mix a bad outbreak of EHD and we have a mess. Seeing a deer while hunting is back to what it was in the 60's.
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Georgia overall does a pretty good job. We have over one million acres of public hunting land. Some of it is managed quite well, and some of it is not. I think funding plays the biggest role in that. I have met several game wardens that obviously cared about what they were doing, but wish they had a little more to work with.
We have quite a few archery only public areas,and I like that. I'm no biologist but I think we kill too many does. Our deer population is nothing like it was 20 years ago.
I love the fact that we can hunt deer, bear, turkey, hogs, alligators, rabbits, squirrel, and more in the same state. I would like to see more deer though.
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Minnesota....... C grade
Tough job today helping outdoor enthusiasts. lobbyist and special interests groups making the most noise and generally their moral compass is not facing true north.
Land of 10000 lakes so fishing takes a front seat here in Mn. and rightfully so.
Wolf population is out of control in the NE part of state wiping out deer population. Moose really struggling, Elk,what elk? Bear pop declining. Deer #'s really low. Upland birds go up and down with the weather.
I feel we have done a poor job at bringing in the young, all states need to have youth programs to continue on the heritage of hunting and fishing.
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WI is heading in the right direction, they are at least starting to change things up, no doe tags in northern units, getting into the new century with backtag & registering changes to name a few.
Our previous governor "diamond jim doyle" and a super bloated government agency, had it completely screwed up. Our great governor is trying to right that ship.
County meetings to actually try and address deer population on a more manageable scale are a step in the right direction after years of doing things "cause thats the way we always did it".
Wolfs and predators are still a problem, along with the inclusion of crossthings in the archery are a problem.
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In New Jersey we have zones. I live in zone 5 located in Sussex County. In zone 5 we have unlimited shooting of does. We use to have a lot of deer in this area, but now the numbers are way down. For the first time in my hunting career, expanding over sixty years, I did not see one deer this year while hunting. In spite of the low numbers, we still have unlimited shooting of does in zone 5.
The rabbits and grouse, which used to be plentiful, are all but gone.
The state has been buying a lot of land in the last 10-15 years most of which is open to hunting. The only problem is, at least in my area, these lands are sadly lacking in game. There are many reasons for the lack of game, but number one in my opinion is the change in habitat and the lack of food.
All in all, the management of wildlife by the Div. of Fish & Game , in my opinion, leaves something to be desired.
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Soon there will be no deer in Il. Sad but when it is all about money the wildlife suffer. Too many permits offered too many guys killing three and four deer a year. Farmers keep tearing out fence rows and drainages to plant more crops. I am starting to feel like the American Indians did when they saw the great Buffalo numbers diminish to practically nothing. God's word tells us "That the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil". It certainly bears truthful in Il. Makes me wonder where Chicago will get its revenue from when no one is buying permits any longer because there are no longer any deer to hunt. :banghead: Hurts my heart! Gary.
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Forgot to add that Ohio, which has not allowed rifles to be used in the state for deer for at least 40 years (probably a lot longer than that though) in another breakthrough of pure genius began letting hunters use straight wall rifles including 45/70 this past season. I guess their logic is that rifles are more safe now that the state's population has increased from the mid 1900s. Just checked out the proposed rules for next year and I believe we will continue to see deer numbers and the quality of our hunting decline.
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MO has an excellent conservation department. Absolutely independent of the positions in Jeff city. They do a wonderful job and I cannot say enough! I am utterly satisfied with them.
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Hunting in many areas in Iowa is a joke, I pushed years ago for tree stand laws in Iowa and got them. The head of the DNR hated me, but once they went out and looked for themselves it happened. Now there are paid politicians pushing for crossbows, WHY? Simple they are getting paid to have that opinion. There are select lakes in Minnesota that are limited to wilderness status, that are not in the BWCA. I am going push to have public lands become granted wilderness status,a place for pure wild adventure, no cameras, no tree stands left over night, and hopefully no early muzzleloader,(they are hardly anything like muzzleloaders anyway), no crossbows and no organized hunts and no gmo corn. We need a rekindling of what Aldo Leopold practiced.
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New York has a few problems, one is they cut back on gamewardens in the field, next they have a lot of deer and then issue a lot of doe permits which does nothing for areas that access for hunter is not allowed, so all the pressure is on public areas that are over hunted. Another thing is that you can get nuisance permits to kill deer and turkey if you are a farmer cuz you have crop damage... I know farms that take over 30 deer in SEPTEMBER at night with any weapon, if you POST your land and do not allow hunters then don't complain about crop damage! Of course if you and your buddies like to kill deer at night, before the season in multiples then you like the current system.
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If the WI DNR would take the money their wasting on ads trying to recruit new hunters,and put it towards managing the deer herd numbers,the hunters will come.Who's going to buy a license if you don't see a deer all season.The only reason the crossthingy's were allowed in the archery season was to make a buck off selling more licenses.
I understand that it has to be somewhat run like a business,but you have to get your priorities right,do the right things and the right things will happen.
Leland
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Wildlife management in Alaska can be a bit cowboy but so are other aspects of life here. Don't agree with every reg but neither do the reg makers.
The seasons and limits are generally pretty liberal and the populations generally dictate it.
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I use to dream about shooting a big buck! But now I only hope I see a deer! End of story!
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Well I have skimmed thru this and it seems like I have experienced something different than what others have in Illinois. Illinois has in the last 2 years reduced the number of gun tags by eliminating the late gun season in certain counties. We have been hit hard by EHD state wide 2 times within a 5 year span. One of the largest problems with that was the biologists within the state didn't get the info they needed to come up with good deer herd numbers. That's where the state dropped the ball. John Q Public didn't have a place to report EHD deer. Our CPO's are busy trying to uphold the law it adds greatly to there work load to have the public calling them to report deer they have found dead on there property. Most people didn't report these deaths at all. So I believe that put the IDNR at a great disadvantage when trying to come up with realistic numbers. Now having sat in a meeting with former IDNR director Dr. Marc Miller I believe while he was at the helm he tried to do things from a biological stand point which IMHO is what all agencies should be doing. But as stated before lobbyist are greatly involved. So hunters aren't the only group the IDNR hear from, insurance companies, ATV users, Ag industry etc. I do think there are some huge contradictions within our state. I know of at least 3 farmers from within my community who receive "nuisance" tags each year. They are allowed to shoot non antlered deer during the fawning months killing the doe and unborn, or leaving the fawn to die shortly there after. This has happened consistently over the last five years when I know deer numbers have been down. With all that being said I think the IDNR does a decent job. I like the IDNR model as far as the finances. Hunters support the IDNR. Therefore I believe that gives us a voice and a seat at the table. I don't agree with everything they do and absolutely despise certain things. But overall having talked and hunted with people from other states it could be worse. We do have a new governor and as always politics will play a huge role in the IDNR future. The future scares me much more than the past.
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I will add that I would like to see a reciprocal agreement with states that border Ky. An Illinois hunter can hunt here far cheaper than I can hunt across the river. But I still pay up, just not every year.
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Unfortuneatly money,insurance co's., and deceptive marketing trumps the environment and especially our government officials,not to mention not enough DNR personell that are hired on merit and not by being politically connected,just my thoughts I could be wrong
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Colorado has a great Dow. Doing a tough job, being pulled in every direction by countless groups. All wanting the job done their way..I don't know how they do it.
They get a thumbs up from me. (I hope they see this and I draw my deer &elk tags)
Joe
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New York's archery season is a joke, 2 weeks long in Northern Zone, Then relentless pounding of muzzleloader and then rifle season thru mid-December. Plenty of State land , and few wardens to enforce game laws..Introduction of Crossbows and GUN youth season During Archery season, has IMO ruined NY as an archers paradise. I travel to neighboring states now to bowhunt. It is legal with Sportsman license to kill 5 deer, and a lot of "hunters" manage to kill many more illegally. Deer sightings down in many areas due to Nuisance Permits..neighboring farms that sponsor this program, are void of deer..should I go on??
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New York's archery season is a joke, 2 weeks long in Northern Zone, Then relentless pounding of muzzleloader and then rifle season thru mid-December. Plenty of State land , and few wardens to enforce game laws..Introduction of Crossbows and GUN youth season During Archery season, has IMO ruined NY as an archers paradise. I travel to neighboring states now to bowhunt. It is legal with Sportsman license to kill 5 deer, and a lot of "hunters" manage to kill many more illegally. Deer sightings down in many areas due to Nuisance Permits..neighboring farms that sponsor this program, are void of deer..should I go on??
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No one has mentioned Alabama, DNR is both very good and problematical, some bad decisions, some quirky laws.
The state has a forever wild program where they use royalties from off shore oil wells to buy public hunting land, this has been a tremendous success for hunters. I can now hunt 50K acres within 45 minutes of my house.
You can kill two does a day in Bama from the start of bow season on Oct 15 until the gun season closes on Jan 31. In some parts of the state this is OK, others a bit too generous.
The state needs money for wildlife management, I think they should sell doe tags for $5 a pop to generate revenue.
The state wants to institute a tagging system to know what is harvested, their attempt, at first mandatory, was shot down by all the states Bubbas who cried foul. Reporting kills is now optional.
Alabama has a few laws that don't make sense. Pigs are spreading like a disease, the DNR wants them gone but won't let you shoot them with anything but a field point, 22 rifle or a shotgun with #2 shot or smaller unless deer season is open. Their thinking is if you have a broadhead on your arrow and a deer happens by, you won't be able to stop yourself from shooting the deer out of season, DUH!
They just passed a law allowing silencers on hunting rifles, another DUH!
Overall the states wildlife biologists/wardens are doing a great job, hard working, dedicated and an asset to the overall picture.
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Born and raised in Oregon. Sorry to say we have one of the worst, if not the worst, managed DOW in the west. Partly due to the voting power of the veggie-head, treehugger, yuppies who don't know anything outside of a Starbucks in the concrete jungle. I could go on and on...
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I think southern Illinois is a world apart from the northern in more ways than one SheltonCreeker. I was born in the south and moved up here as my daddy was a preacher and that's where they put us. The north being way more populated puts huge pressure on the DNR to reduce deer/auto collisions from insurance companies. The insurance co's actually fund the killing. They have decimated the herd up here by sharpshooting over bait and anybody who hunts up this way would agree. In the south there is less political pressure on the DNR in my opinion.
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I will make this short and sweet.New Hampshire,D-
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At risk of being stoned. It has been very popular to bash your respective DNR lately.
Of course they have gone to get degrees and spend time researching, but they don't know anything, right.
Although there are issues and rapidly changing herds, they are being pulled a lot of ways by special interests and they just cannot appease all.
Reminds me of a story I read somewhere, maybe even here. . . about the man who called his DNR and demanded that they do something, stating that he has been deer hunting for 50 years and has a really good handle on the issues at hand.
The young lady that was taking the call asked what he did for a living and he proudly told her that he ran a water treatment facility for a large city.
She went on to say she always wanted to do that and asked of her chances at getting such a job. He responded that such a job requires years of study and experience and that someone can't just walk in and do it.
Her response was that she has been drinking water for all her life, and surely that counts her as somewhat of an expert in the field.
We as hunters, especially dedicated bowhunters, spend a lot of actual time in the woods and the states really could do well in incorporating what we see into their discussions and decisions. But there is so much behind the scenes that we are not (and never will be) aware of.
ChuckC
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Great post Chuck!
I've heard it mentioned many times here in Ohio that only a few groups are unhappy with our statewide deer management. Those groups include The Ohio Farm Bureau, various state insurance associations, PETA Ohio, some Ohio deer hunters, and a number of local garden clubs. ;)
There were 5 concurrent 'deer summits' held around Ohio by the ODNR on January 24, 2015. A total of 160 people statewide (average less than 2 people per county) were interested enough to attend these summits. Obviously the degree of dissatisfaction wasn't enough to warrant an organized turnout by deer hunters...or there is just too much apathy amongst deer hunters to speak up on the topic.
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Chuck,
I think the people that work for the DNR know plenty but when the head of the Dept is a political appointee there will be problems.
Case in point NY DEC commissioner is politically appointed. I can just imagine him going to those fancy parties with the other political elites and being told how cruel hunters are and that NY should be making more lands for the "enlightened" people and not those crude Neanderthals that hunt.
I work in NYC and very rarely do you find someone that is at least tolerable to hunters. That I think is what is happening all across the country to a limited extent.
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Its a broad question, but Ohio DOW is both good and bad... Will put it this way, non deer species they do a great job such as restoring wild turkeys, bald eagles, peregrine falcons, river otters, bobcats, etc. Would like to see them do a little more in bobwhite quail recovery, but when it comes to whitetail deer they SUCK... There is no way there should be deer firearm seasons in October or before rut for that matter, or even before Thanksgiving, then again after New Years when they can blast them with muzzleloader during a most stressful time in mid January.. Gunseasons need to be kept between Thanksgiving and Christmas... I could go on and on, but don't have the time to write it all...8^)
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Our problem in Oregon is that they allowed a ballot measure to go before the voters. The mass majority of these voters have no idea of what goes on past their doorstep. The measure banned hunting cougars with dogs and baiting bears. So along with wolves establishing themselves here the other predators are reducing game animals...to the point that the Ore. Fish and Wildlife has to hire "professional" hunters to reduce the numbers of cougars in quite a few areas. We also have too many open roads throughout deer and elk habitat. They don't have as much escapement opportunities as they should.
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I did not deer hunt wisconsin at all last season. only missed being out in the woods, I can do that anytime without buying a permit. too little too late for me with the current changes being made. my 3 children are no longer hunters. way to go wi dnr
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The WDFW has managed to increase fees and licenses beyond what the market will bear. Hunting opportunities have declined, as they have in neighboring states. Game populations are down in the Yakima area and south central part of the state due to disease in the Mule deer. Game populations do go through a cycle. Hard winters hurt all wildlife.
Poor timber management has left North Central susceptible to forest fires. A terrible waste of resources occurs from beetle infestation, dying stands of timber and overcrowding usually is the cause of huge wildfires. Although there is an economic loss, a fire usually helps to restore browse for wildlife in a 3-5 yrs.
The number of hunters has declined for most species. Poaching is a problem, like everywhere. The State has not adopted a program to manage their blossoming Wolf packs, maybe when they migrate to Olympia and Seattle, they will do something. They continue to rely on the input from the non-paying public.
On a positive side, they have made a number of large land purchases critical to wildlife, in conjunction with the help of conservation organizations and the public. Wintering areas are important for migrating Mule deer and Elk herds.
Unfortunately, the long term prospects will depend on factors like weather, drought, fire and predators (bears, lions, and wolves).
While some in the Government continue to cite global climate change as the greatest threat, they continue to ignore the facts. http://www.spaceandscience.net/
Congratulations to OR for hiring an experienced wildlife person to head their Dept.
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Originally posted by Zbone:
Its a broad question, but Ohio DOW is both good and bad... Will put it this way, non deer species they do a great job such as restoring wild turkeys, bald eagles, peregrine falcons, river otters, bobcats, etc. Would like to see then do a little more in bobwhite recovery, but went it comes to whitetail deer they SUCK... There is no way there should be deer firearm seasons in October or before rut for that matter, or even before Thanksgiving, then again after New Years when they can blast them with muzzleloader during a most stressful time in mid January.. Gunseasons need to be kept between Thanksgiving and Christmas... I could go on and on, but don't have the time to write it all...8^)
I don't think Ohio manages any game species well. Especially deer. But when I was younger there were pheasnt, grouse, rabbits etc. everywhere. Now? Not so much. What they have done to the deer population is abominable, and the early gun season's (youth or ML) drive me nuts.
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Originally posted by SheltonCreeker:
Well I have skimmed thru this and it seems like I have experienced something different than what others have in Illinois. Illinois has in the last 2 years reduced the number of gun tags by eliminating the late gun season in certain counties. We have been hit hard by EHD state wide 2 times within a 5 year span. One of the largest problems with that was the biologists within the state didn't get the info they needed to come up with good deer herd numbers. That's where the state dropped the ball. John Q Public didn't have a place to report EHD deer. Our CPO's are busy trying to uphold the law it adds greatly to there work load to have the public calling them to report deer they have found dead on there property. Most people didn't report these deaths at all. So I believe that put the IDNR at a great disadvantage when trying to come up with realistic numbers. Now having sat in a meeting with former IDNR director Dr. Marc Miller I believe while he was at the helm he tried to do things from a biological stand point which IMHO is what all agencies should be doing. But as stated before lobbyist are greatly involved. So hunters aren't the only group the IDNR hear from, insurance companies, ATV users, Ag industry etc. I do think there are some huge contradictions within our state. I know of at least 3 farmers from within my community who receive "nuisance" tags each year. They are allowed to shoot non antlered deer during the fawning months killing the doe and unborn, or leaving the fawn to die shortly there after. This has happened consistently over the last five years when I know deer numbers have been down. With all that being said I think the IDNR does a decent job. I like the IDNR model as far as the finances. Hunters support the IDNR. Therefore I believe that gives us a voice and a seat at the table. I don't agree with everything they do and absolutely despise certain things. But overall having talked and hunted with people from other states it could be worse. We do have a new governor and as always politics will play a huge role in the IDNR future. The future scares me much more than the past.
:clapper:
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I'm a wildlife biologist, retired (IN, KS, MO, and KY)
With that said I can tell you if the head of the agency has no or low political skill or is reluctant to engage politicians, your agency and its wildlife management Mission will be much weaker.
For an agency head I would much rather have a skilled politician who will listen to his scientists (and his hunter/angler customers) than a biologist who thinks people management is unimportant. Of course you don't want simply a "yes" man of for the political powers that be.
Hunters and anglers outnumber almost any special interest group in every state. If these sportsmen and women work effectively with their agency (and vice-versa) they can accomplish amazing things and fight off ridiculous, harmful policies and regulations.
As an example: On a few important issues the KY Dept. assigned each of its employees to take free, colorful post cards to every sportsman group in the state -- every county. These cards stated positions that both the agency and hunters supported. The club members sent these cards in by the thousands to their state representatives. On more than one occasion the politicians begged the agency head to "call off the dogs". The agency and its sportsman supporters won.
While difficult and time consuming it is very hard (Kevin pointed out above) to get these greatest of wildlife conservationists (hunters and anglers) engaged.
Finally, I have to add, during my career I heard as many unworkable ideas from hunters as I heard from politicians. But at least I knew the hunter's heart was likely in the right place.
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Laughable come to mind! Just my opinion.
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Maryland - very different state in regard to wildlife management. The state is broken up into two regions. Region A in western part of the state has dismal deer numbers. Long seasons, liberal bag limits, predation kill, poaching, the list goes on and on. Result deer numbers are way down in this part of the state. Our DNR is ok with this. Hunters are getting fed up and now going to other states to hunt. Complaints fall on deaf ears. DNR is very serious about the black bear populations much time energy and resources goes into this management. Region B the rest of the state has deer but much of the land is private which don't allow hunting. "Getting permission is tough. So there are deer in region B if you can find a piece of land to hunt. Like other states Maryland is very political so there decisions reflect that. There are many private clubs trying to do management to better their herd. Most hunters would like to see DNR do more to enhance the deer herd. Budget and manpower always comes into play when engaging the DNR. Hunters would like to see more deer. As others have stated it is hard to bring young people into the sport when you take them and they see nothing. They lose interest very quickly.
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Great insightful post Bowwild! Rick.
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I think Wisconsin is starting on the right path. Granted, I mostly hunt private property, but I do spend some time in national forest every year, and despite what I often hear of it, I always see deer during archery season.
I would like to see 0 doe tags issued state wide (including crop damage) for say 5 years, and would love to see more fish stocking programs, but I doubt the former will happen because weekend hunters will be less likely to buy a tag (no offense to weekend hunters intended), and the latter.. Well, it's just too logical.
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Doug, we don't need zero doe tags statewide, but we do need them , for now, in certain areas. A big issue we do have is the wide disparity between populations in different areas. This can be seen quite well by those that walk the trails.
We need a balance. . not too many, not too few.
This winter I have seen more deer in my particular (public) area than I ever have before. I see a ton of deer whenever I drive thru certain mid state counties at one hour before dark.
We need to include the eyes of some of the folks that actually spend a bunch of time out of doors in our deer population models.
ChuckC
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This has been a very interesting post, and it looks like for the most part it's a catch 22, no matter how good or how bad any state's DNR is they will never make everyone happy. It make for great debate, I just hope my kids, their kids, and their kids...(you get the idea) can all enjoy our wildlife, and ways of life we have been able too, as we pass them on.