Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: ed cowden on March 31, 2015, 10:23:00 AM
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I and a couple of friend's have had bows in the want ads for more than a week and barely get any response or interest. And for bows shipped at lower than half price with no waiting.
It is very disappointing that trading and selling is going so poorly. I hope all our bowyers and having better success at moving product. Maybe everyone is going fishing now that it is spring.
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Yep, it is a lot different than in 2010-2012. Bows moved quickly and usually one had to only lose 10-20% Now if you can't give em up for 30-50% they aren't moving.
Of course there are a few exceptions such as Tips and Blacktails and a couple that NEVER come up for sale.
I have two bows on order. Both these bows will be done in about half the time (6-7 months) as when I ordered bows from them 3-4 years ago. One of them though has added staff (Blacktail).
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Yep, definitely a buyers market these days. Only way they will move is if you practically give them away, and a lot of folks would rather hang on to the bow than do that. So, sometimes the great deal doesn't happen. Seems to go in cycles, maybe down the road things will pick up.
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Since my wife retired we are more or less on a fixed income which cuts into my buying/selling. I also believe the media confuses the average person. One day everything is wonderful, next day our economy is in the tank. Lots of uncertainty.
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Some people are waiting on tax returns.
Plus since it's the paid members only to buy and sell maybe they have enough stuff now ?
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This was a major force in me learning to build my own. I couldn't have enough bows and buying and selling got old fast. Now I get a hankering and go build one to suit.
My name is Chris and Im an addict......there, I said it!
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many folks will not pay the fee to browse. Fewer browsers=fewer buyers. business degrees confirm that obvious fact.
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I've noticed that selling slows down a little this time of year. Maybe (hopefully) everybody's saving for the St. Jude auction? :clapper:
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I decided not to be a paid contributor this year. I'm not living very high on the hog, and that $30 is something I should use elsewhere. I'm probably not the only one.
It would be nice if it was a one-time fee instead of annually. It definitely impacts my browsing, and if I ain't browsin', I ain't buyin'.
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On the bright side, they are "easy keepers" as they don't eat much...lol
God bless,Mudd
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Originally posted by ed cowden:
I and a couple of friend's have had bows in the want ads for more than a week and barely get any response or interest. And for bows shipped at lower than half price with no waiting.
It is very disappointing that trading and selling is going so poorly. I hope all our bowyers and having better success at moving product. Maybe everyone is going fishing now that it is spring.
Market does seem a bit slow but I saw your add and a better description as well as photos would help you out significantly in closing a deal. I hardly won't buy a bow without seeing pictures and for some the trouble of emailing or texting is an extra inconvenience.
Sometimes its love at 1st sight and with no sighting, aint no loving.
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Originally posted by Archie:
I decided not to be a paid contributor this year. I'm not living very high on the hog, and that $30 is something I should use elsewhere. I'm probably not the only one.
It would be nice if it was a one-time fee instead of annually. It definitely impacts my browsing, and if I ain't browsin', I ain't buyin'.
Yup.
Not that I don't want to contribute, but I need to stay away.
For me it was like an alcoholic walking past a bar...if he/she goes in, there could be trouble. If you don't go in. You have to look for trouble elsewhere ;)
I retired at the end of July, '14. Now I'm on a fixed income. But somehow I've bought about five bows since then (all vintage). Maybe I need to just disconnect from the 'net altogether....
NAH!
I'm still looking for my holy grail 65 Kodiak LH. I kinda hope it stays away so I can keep from spending the $ that is less disposing as it was a year ago.
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Well Ed....I wish i could do more fishing.... I'm swamped with work at the moment. I'm at 5-6 month wait time on custom bows, and have very few in stock. I've got no time to build stock bows.....
But.... I am going Turkey hunting on the 10Th- 17th...... Gotta do it. :biglaugh:
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It's a trend on all the sites no just here. I have seen bows sale for way less than I would have thought.
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I am not willing to pay to view the classified ads so that is why I am not buying anything there.
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Used bow prices are way down, people have less money, people selling need the money many times, and will take something rather than just hang onto a bow they do not use.
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I kind of like to look a bow over good and give it a good pull back or two. Not much for dropping 2-3 hundred on a used bow anyway and not without having it my hands. Can't say as if I have ever bought a bow without looking at it with one exception. My Steve Turray baraga long bow.
Like others, when you are retired and on a fixed income you throw Cabelas catalogs away before they hit the family room.
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There certainly are some good deals to be had and a buyer can be picky if items are not moving too fast. I can certainly understand if folks are watching their $$'s but if I really wanted a bow spending $30 to save hundreds seems pretty straight forward.
Also as Izzy mentions a good presentation of the item you want to sell could mean the difference between SOLD and still for sale. Pictures are very important to me when I look at something to buy.
A quick glance at the bows for sale first page shows a dozen SOLD's or SPF so there is movement and some folks that probably got a great deal.
I'm going to put my custom made Journeyman longbow that Jared donated to the St Jude's auction back in the auction this year so that Jared's generousity keeps helping the kids, so you won't have to pay $30 to bid for a very nice bow.
(http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu113/elkken/stjude2014-7-2_zps60185b9d.jpg) (http://s639.photobucket.com/user/elkken/media/stjude2014-7-2_zps60185b9d.jpg.html)
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I think people need to sell more of their silver tips and black tails :pray: especially the 64" ones in the low 40s
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I am disappointed in having a bow at a steal of a price on there and not one hit. I have sold 2 quivers and bought one this year as a contributor and having zero concerns about the transactions is pleasant. You don't have to look very far down the board (PowWow) to see a recent thread someone posted on getting burned buying a bow on another site.
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The economy is tough, but...a friend of mine who's one of the major players in the archery manufacturing world told me recently they are running at full speed ahead.
I'm thinking the custom bow market has taken a hit due to manufacturers stepping up and putting a better class and better selection of "over the counter" bows up for sale that have little to no wait time.
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For the right bow I don't think it ever slows down, also for it priced cheap. You want to sell your custom you paid a lot for then get out the soap. Your either taking a bath or could be a soap opera.LOL
Things are not the way they should be and thats not just been overnight.LOL
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There are certainly some good values in the classifieds. Sometimes it's just a matter of what bow is 'hot' right now. Also, even a couple of years of production puts more bows out there amongst the new bows that are available. I'm having Steve Turay build me a bow and he told me he's trying to move in the direction of a shorter wait time and less stock bows. Perhaps if more bowyers go in that direction we'll see the market pick back up again. Of course if you're a buyer of used, you're enjoying this market.
p.s. as a buyer and seller, I appreciate the pay to play-I've had nothing but great transactions with the site.
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Originally posted by elkken:
There certainly are some good deals to be had and a buyer can be picky if items are not moving too fast. I can certainly understand if folks are watching their $$'s but if I really wanted a bow spending $30 to save hundreds seems pretty straight forward.
Also as Izzy mentions a good presentation of the item you want to sell could mean the difference between SOLD and still for sale. Pictures are very important to me when I look at something to buy.
A quick glance at the bows for sale first page shows a dozen SOLD's or SPF so there is movement and some folks that probably got a great deal.
I'm going to put my custom made Journeyman longbow that Jared donated to the St Jude's auction back in the auction this year so that Jared's generousity keeps helping the kids, so you won't have to pay $30 to bid for a very nice bow.
(http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu113/elkken/stjude2014-7-2_zps60185b9d.jpg) (http://s639.photobucket.com/user/elkken/media/stjude2014-7-2_zps60185b9d.jpg.html)
Wow Ken! :clapper:
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I recently posted two bows. One of them sold after a couple of weeks and a $75 reduction. The other hasn't sold.
I have another bow that I would sell but I have more in it (with extra limbs) than any bow I've ever owned. I'd bet I couldn't get 50% for it. No way I can put it up for sale because I couldn't stomach the hit.
The grip on that one is highly customized by the bowyer just for me. So some wouldn't like the feel either.
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I know you're pain Ed. I've had a Tall Tines on the classifieds for over a month. Got a few tire kickers but no takers. Maybe I'll just keep it. Lol.
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I'm looking for a certain weight in an ILF limb, a certain brand, a certain length too. I see plenty of limbs for sale, too heavy, too light, too long, too short, unknown limb I haven't shot. So no deal. I just missed a great riser that sold in a matter of hours because I had to work today. I see these more on other sites though.
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One thing I've noticed with myself and my friends that have been at this a while, we find a bow or few that we really like and shoot well so we stop buying as many looking for the "perfect miracle" bow. At this point we can shoot a bow an tell if we like it or not in less than a dozen shots. You dont need to buy one if you can shoot them at a major shoot and decide to pass. The last bow I bought was 4 years ago for my daughter. She liked it so it stays. My last one was ordered 9 years ago so not looking for any more (except a Gamemaster Jet when the price/poundage/condition planets line up). I noticed the buying-selling trend slowing down a few years ago when selling off my extra bows at Denton Hill for less than half price............... YMMV.......
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I am not willing to pay an annual fee just to view the classified ads so that is why I am not buying anything there. Prior to that rule change myself and several members of our local club were good for a couple bows a piece each a year. None of us have "paid to play".
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How come threads like this always go the way of pay to play. It gets old! Like someone else pointed out there are at least 12 SOLD ads just on 1st page. The classifieds work and are just icing on the cake for the measly 30 bucks. Around 8 cents a day!
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The classifieds are better than ever. I have great dealing there without the hassle of the scammers trying to get something for nothing.
Ron
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I'm not buying a bow because after shooting close to 250 other trad bows, I don't like ANY of them as much as my current and only bow. Now, unless I can shoot it, I don't consider buying it because odds are I won't like it or keep it. Maybe one day that perfect takedown will stumble along though.
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I paid to play as someone said it and saved/made 5X that. Just sayin.
The market is just plain weak here and on other forums.... No sense complaining about it. It is what it is....
I think the classifieds is a much better place these days, maybe that's just me...
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Not dropping prices here and building all the bows I want to build. I go to the classifieds all the time and see the same people selling one bow after another at half price and less than what they paid for it and it makes no sense to me at all. You set the prices on your bows. Seems like an awesome time to pick up some really great bows at half price and less. I have bought several of my own bows back over time because I do not want them on the market for the ridiculous prices some people sell them for. Not only that I know I have more money in time and materials than some ask for them. I would rather have someone call me or email me and ask if I have any good used bows and get shipping and a couple bucks for them from an individual than to have the bows devalued on the classifieds.
Right now it kind of looks like several guys just trading bows back and forth. But like Ed says the market is definitely down on those used bows.
God bless, Steve
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I am not sure how some people can afford to buy so many bows and then sell them so cheap. Good for the guy looking for a steal on the used market but bad for us that try to offer our used bows at a fair price for both parties without taking it in the shorts too much.
All of the ones I sold ended going about 10% lower than I had hoped....but I am trying to fund a new bow so the end justifies the means...within reason.
Hopefully things will turn around....as it is a double edged sword.
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I really think the drop is due to more good bows being on the market these days. There are so many bowyers out there producing a good product.
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I recently sold a Howard Hill longbow in great condition and it went fast. I felt good knowing that the buyer was a serious buyer who was willing to "pay to play". I have no problem contributing to the best trad archery site on the net! You do have to price them to sell if you want to move them. Most people are not going to pay somewhere just a bit shy of new price for a used bow. I figure somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-65% of new is a reasonable price to ask for a bow in good condition. I usually have no trouble selling bows here.
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It is a down market in the classifieds for sure. It causes the seller to really think about whether to sell the bow for a loss or keep it and wait for an uptick in the market. I sold a bow for $50 less than I paid recently. To me, that was negligible. I would have rather gotten what I paid, but the market dictated a loss on that bow sale. I didn't need to sell it, but I chose to let it go. Some are winners, some are losers!
As far as the $30 contributor fee goes, I get so much enjoyment annually perusing the ads that it's worth it to me.
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I use to be a contributor before it was needed to view the classifieds .Never seemed to hurt to give a bit.Never worry about any deals I make now.
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David M I was shooting a Northern Mist that I bought awhile back with your name on it. :bigsmyl:
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The $30 is a great deal for me. I am that "one bow" guy. I've owned a few... all used (except for a Bob Anderson Zipper years ago), bought from the classifieds, but at different times. Sell one, buy one. That is what retirement income calls for.
Presently buying one right now. A Kwyk Styk.
It is worth the $30 bucks for all the time and enjoyment that i get just "window shopping".
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Originally posted by stabow:
David M I was shooting a Northern Mist that I bought awhile back with your name on it. :bigsmyl:
I bet it has some good mojo, Boyd! :biglaugh:
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I had something interesting happen on the classifieds. I posted an ad looking for a specific bow. A bowyer contacted me and offered me a used, discontinued two piece bow, same model I was searching for, at about a 50% reduction from retail price. I guess even bowyers occasionally sell bows for a loss.
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It is definitely a buyers market in used bows right now. Tired of hearing the whiners about contributing to a great site, they miss the big picture, wanting something for nothing, but they have a right to say it on a free site.
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Originally posted by katman:
It is definitely a buyers market in used bows right now. Tired of hearing the whiners about contributing to a great site, they miss the big picture, wanting something for nothing, but they have a right to say it on a free site.
:thumbsup: :campfire:
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many folks will not pay the fee to browse. Fewer browsers=fewer buyers. business degrees confirm that obvious fact. X2
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As much as I used to buy sell and trade bows here, yes I will agree it has come to a major halt I just don't think there are many people viewing the classifieds as there used to be. Most likely because they don't feel the need or want to contribute to "use the classifieds."
My logic these days is a tad different. I don't contribute to use the classifieds. I contribute because I'm pretty sure hosting, running,and using bandwith on a website isn't free. It's gotta cost someone something. For all the information I've gotten on here, stories I've read from so many of you, people I've met because of this site, hunts I've been on, tutorials.etc. $30 seems cheap! And to boot....I get to use the classifieds!
Better than any magazine subscription I'll ever have on trad archery...
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I have bought and sold a few on the classifieds. I love them. I always feel great about the deals and I have tried to use 3 others with horrid luck. As far as what I lose when I sell... Well I never expect to sell for what I bought, its like a car to me. Also, between the $30 a year and what I lose, I even out with the bows I buy. And many people are right, any market ebbs and flows. Hunting seasons, tax periods, etc. i'm sure it'll pick up.
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many folks will not pay the fee to browse. Fewer browsers=fewer buyers. business degrees confirm that obvious fact. X2 I was a 2014 contributor and really liked to browse but being retired now just can't see spending the money so I look elsewhere.
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The thing that I don't understand is buyers are not making offers, after all I believe we are all willing to negotiate a bit.
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I agree with Matty 100%....!!
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Originally posted by Cavscout9753:
I have bought and sold a few on the classifieds. I love them. I always feel great about the deals and I have tried to use 3 others with horrid luck. As far as what I lose when I sell... Well I never expect to sell for what I bought, its like a car to me. Also, between the $30 a year and what I lose, I even out with the bows I buy. And many people are right, any market ebbs and flows. Hunting seasons, tax periods, etc. i'm sure it'll pick up.
x2
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As for selling bows at below market value, I can only speak from my own experience. I made a decision that I plain had too many, too many sitting on a rack, too many that would hardly be shot and for the amount of limited time I actually get to hunt, having 20 bows and hunt 3-5 days a year seems silly. Why not sell them to the great group of people here to enjoy them. In the process I decide to keep the bows that are really special to me. Simply speaking less is more.
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Originally posted by Guss:
I agree with Matty 100%....!!
X2, just did a quick count . 1st 2 pages of ads and counted 40 sold bows!
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Ed Cowden has a beautiful Liberty English longbow. 68" 52@29 for $325 he can't sell. I'm tempted to buy the darn thing just because! What are the cores on that bow, Ed?
Chumming the water for you, Ed! :bigsmyl:
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You guys think you got it tough...try selling a left hand bow that's about 70# at a normal 28" draw. All my bows fit this category. Takes me forever to sell and usually has to be for dirt cheap. Literally near impossible.
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Originally posted by LB_hntr:
You guys think you got it tough...try selling a left hand bow that's about 70# at a normal 28" draw. All my bows fit this category. Takes me forever to sell and usually has to be for dirt cheap. Literally near impossible.
Got a buddy looking for one now. Goes by dragonheart here.
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I got my hat when the classifieds went to pay per view.
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Originally posted by Izzy:
Originally posted by ed cowden:
I and a couple of friend's have had bows in the want ads for more than a week and barely get any response or interest. And for bows shipped at lower than half price with no waiting.
It is very disappointing that trading and selling is going so poorly. I hope all our bowyers and having better success at moving product. Maybe everyone is going fishing now that it is spring.
Market does seem a bit slow but I saw your add and a better description as well as photos would help you out significantly in closing a deal. I hardly won't buy a bow without seeing pictures and for some the trouble of emailing or texting is an extra inconvenience.
Sometimes its love at 1st sight and with no sighting, aint no loving. [/b]
This^^^definitely makes a difference. I find it much easier to close the listing and forget about it if I haven't seen pictures. You know what they say about a picture being worth a thousand words...
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See David M...if you're sellin', I'm in trouble ;) That's why I HAVE to stay away :D
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The English has bamboo cores. I am not bad mouthing the classifieds as I have already sold several bows this year. The prices are lower than I would like and some just draw no interest. And paying to play for a year is a pretty good deal for me. And one or two will be given to St Judes if I have to give them away.
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I paid the $30.00 last year but I decided not to pay that every year. I may change my mind in the future. It's worth the price if you are looking for a used bow.
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I gladly pay the $30 to contribute to this site! Everything about it is special. The people, the topics, the wealth of information, and most importantly, the St. Jude's auction! The brotherhood and generosity on this site is uncanny. I'm proud to be able to call myself a Tradganger!!! Participating in the classifieds is icing on the cake.
As the seller, you set the price. If you are not happy with what has been offered, don't sell. But don't complain that the demand for your goods doesn't currently warrant the price you want. Either wait for the demand to rise, or settle for less at the time of sale if you'd rather not hold on to it. Again, your choice.
I will also agree that the presentation of your add is very important. Pictures are a sure fire way to insight more interest. If you don't want to go through the "hassle", that's your loss! The more information that you can give, the better. Adds with one or two poorly written sentences, will also likely not attract much interest.
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This is not true. I generally only own one bow at a time even though I could easily afford more. I used to love the gear deals I could find on the classifieds. However I rarely spent more than 50 bucks a year so spending 30 doesn't make sense to me. As for supporting this site I should hope that doing business with a number of the sponsors here and even making it a point to access their sites through the links above is plenty. Don't get me wrong if you pay the fee for the classified I have no issues with it nor do I especially care that you are made to pay to use it but, I certainly could afford to if I wanted.
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Jakeemt, you are correct. Perhaps I worded that wrong. I've edited my original post.
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Originally posted by Bud B.:
See David M...if you're sellin', I'm in trouble ;) That's why I HAVE to stay away :D
Hey, Bud, I just sold a beautiful lefty Hill TD on the classifieds. :D
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I have to disagree with the title of this thread. You would have NO trouble actually giving them away...
It was my understanding that the moderators put the very minimal fee on the classifieds because of how much trouble they were experiencing with the transactions that were taking place. After the fee, they spoke of how much better everything became. End of that story for me.
Up here, I can't even buy a 24 case of beer for $30.00. And I probably drink more than that in a year...
There is more to the classifieds than bows. You can set yourself up totally from that section. I feel very confident dealing with anyone from here and would expect that the next thing we know, prices have rebounded and the buyers are crying.
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Being retired I decided not to pay the fee to watch the classifieds,save the money and I might run across something at flea markets or garange sales
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People sell bows cheap because they need the money. They would hang onto them otherwise. Lots of people are in need of funds for other things right now.
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I have had excellent luck with the classifieds, both buying and selling. It's even to the point now that several members will contact me if they something they think I will like or if they are looking for something that I might have. Buying, selling and trading have taken my bow rack from a couple old Bears and a Ben Pearson to a fine group of top of the line bows.
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I have always bought and sold items on here and have never had a single problem. If I never sold or bought another thing on here I would continue to pay the fee. I am positive I get 30.00 worth of entertainment out of this site
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Originally posted by David Mitchell:
Originally posted by Bud B.:
See David M...if you're sellin', I'm in trouble ;) That's why I HAVE to stay away :D
Hey, Bud, I just sold a beautiful lefty Hill TD on the classifieds. :D [/b]
SEE! You're an enabler ;) I MUST stay away! :biglaugh:
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The same bows are usually advertised on several forums at the same time to maximize exposure. If you don't believe that you have your head in the sand or don't get around much.
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I pay the fee to help with the site and the people who run it. Selling bows is fun and secure on this site.
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Being that Im such a swell guy, any of you fellers having trouble selling your Silvertpis, Ill gladly give you close to 2/3 its initial value give or take a 1/3. Must be right handed and checkered and be 50 - 57 lbs and have rare, nearly endangered, exotic wood and so on and so on. If you really need help selling that is. :readit:
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I believe Ed's post was simply saying the used bow market is soft at the moment. That has little or nothing to do with the $30 fee. It is soft on other sites as well. I personally prefer doing business on TG. I've had good luck here.
It is much like a commodity market and seems cyclical in nature. So the buyer/seller paradigm shifts. Depending on which end of the spectrum you are on it can be good or bad. I've bought and sold over 150 bows in the past three years. I've enjoyed every minute of it. I keep a detailed spreadsheet and I've averaged a loss of 60% since inception. That's pretty poor ROI but I can either quit buying/selling, be more patient on my sales or not worry about it. I choose the last option. I sell bows cheap sometimes b/c I don't like to see them sit, not b/c I'm desperate for money. All in all it's good fun.
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What's a little irritating is when you have the bow/item marked well below 1/2 of new and you get folks still making offers well below that.
I guess it never hurts to ask, and overall not that big a deal, I can just always say no. I guess I would never be so bold to offer an even
lower price when I know I'm already getting a heck of a deal and the seller is already taking a big hit.
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January, February and March are the worst time of year to sell anything used, be it cars, boats, bows, or whatever.
Everybody blew all their money at Christmas, and the holidays in general. And then they may have to cut a check to Uncle Sam in April.
Maybe this is contributing to it some.
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Happy, Happy, Happy... with the classifieds!!
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:archer2:
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I've paid the fee the last couple years for the fact this is a great site and worth twice the price as a magazine subscription. The wealth of knowledge and the great hunting stories is unreal to me.
Since the fee's inception I have posted my bows on this site but they were actually purchased from buyers on other sites. I marked the bows sold because I thought that was the rule on the classifieds here to have the add pulled. I would be willing to bet most of the bows marked sold were not all sold on this site. There is just less traffic on the classifieds here and that is fact.
The classifieds section here is great but there is less traffic. I don't visit this site for the classifieds but mainly for the hunting stories. There's truly some hardcore hunters on this site that can really tell a great story.
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Hey why charge for shopping.
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Originally posted by Mark R:
Hey why charge for shopping.
:deadhorse:
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Seems to me it should always be the sellers market. After all, he has the product. I've listed two or three bows at fair prices. All I've gotten are a few lookers and some bottom dollar feeders. I'll let the bows hang on the wall for ten years before I'll sell them that away. If nothing else I'll give them to a charity and use it as a tax right off.
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Fact is, the contributor fee does limit the number of browsers which certainly impacts sales. Very easy to fix, if you want to list an item for sale you have to pay the yearly contributor fee. All others can browse and buy for no fee. Sellers are protected because they get their money before they ship, buyers are protected because they are dealing with a registered seller.
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I'll be honest I had a reluctance to pay to sell/buy/trade. I felt my contributions to the sponsors should of been enough. But reality is this site has a great class of people, who at least understand what you are selling. I will also admit I tried the other sites and it's safe to say the experience is not equal to what happens here. And for that I am happy to pay for. The other sites have a long way to go and they need a long time to build the relationships found on this site.
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A couple of points the thread brings up for me:
1. I don't mind paying the $30. There are no large "bow shows" near me. The KY Trad fest is great but there aren't as many bowyers there as Cloverdale or the old Kentucky Classic. So the classifieds are a good place to see some of what's out there. I've bought some bows and sold some. However, I'm not part of the group that thinks anything changed in terms of quality or integrity of the classifieds before the $30. I did my due diligence and always had perfect deals. No complaints B$ or A$.
2. Every now and then I read someone suggesting (maybe?) that those who buy are looking for the magical or perfect bow. Maybe that's true for some but not for me. I haven't shot one yet (recurve, I don't do LBs) that didn't work for me. I know the magic is in the archer not the bow. However, I do prefer certain lines, mass, woods, and workmanship. I also like them to be smooth and quick enough at my draw length.
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Originally posted by dragonheart:
Originally posted by BHall:
I believe Ed's post was simply saying the used bow market is soft at the moment. That has little or nothing to do with the $30 fee. It is soft on other sites as well. I personally prefer doing business on TG. I've had good luck here.
It is much like a commodity market and seems cyclical in nature. So the buyer/seller paradigm shifts. Depending on which end of the spectrum you are on it can be good or bad. I've bought and sold over 150 bows in the past three years. I've enjoyed every minute of it. I keep a detailed spreadsheet and I've averaged a loss of 60% since inception. That's pretty poor ROI but I can either quit buying/selling, be more patient on my sales or not worry about it. I choose the last option. I sell bows cheap sometimes b/c I don't like to see them sit, not b/c I'm desperate for money. All in all it's good fun.
Some people can afford to play with bows because they have more money, others cannot. It can be a ton of fun to buy and sell and try out all types of bows. I was there once. I have sold off about every bow now just trying to make ends meet. For those of you that are of the good fortune to be financially well off, just take a real gratitude check. You are fortunate. There are others that are struggling, I do believe that has influenced the used bow market. I know I am not alone. And sometimes people are offering to pay what they can pay, not just being tight with money. The seller controls the price. [/b]
dragonheart--I wasn't looking for a Socioeconomic debate buddy. You do not know my financial situation nor do I know yours (or want to). I wasn't bragging it was more of a confessional, lol. I enjoy trying bows. You may need a gratitude check of your own. Unless you are making posts from a cardboard box you are probably better off than 99% of the world's population. We are talking about bows here. Not starving children or unsanitary drinking water. Just waking up is a daily blessing. Let's keep it in perspective.
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Well said BHall.
And Tique, I do agree with your observation. If all browsers could access and buy from this site without paying an annual fee, I believe bow sales would pick up. This might benefit contributors who might more readily be able to sell their bows.
Even so, I acknowledge that I know very little about running a site like this, and no doubt the moderators of this site have greater perspective, and have made the call.
Ed, you sure have some beautiful bows for sale.
Moots
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I am planning an out of state elk hunting trip and bow sales are so slow I had to sell the wife's car. :dunno: :dunno:
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We are missing the point. Tradgang is not about being a more convenient place to sell your bows. It is here for the purpose of sharing Traditional Hunting related information. The classifieds are just an added benefit, which at one time was a major pain in the neck for the moderators. The contributor fee has help the moderators out a lot. The other option was to do away with the classifieds all together.
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Bhall,
Apologize for using your quote in my post. My intention was not to be offensive. Maybe I am in a bad place right now. Again apology from a brother of the bow.
Jeff Schulz
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Bjorn, how is the market for car sales? LOL
Jeff, sorry if you are struggling in any way. Best wishes to you sir.
Sincerely,
Rob
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Jeff,
We are all good friend. Prayers to you that things get better. Shoot me a PM if I can be of any help.
Bryan
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Originally posted by BHall:
I believe Ed's post was simply saying the used bow market is soft at the moment. That has little or nothing to do with the $30 fee. It is soft on other sites as well. I personally prefer doing business on TG. I've had good luck here.
It is much like a commodity market and seems cyclical in nature. So the buyer/seller paradigm shifts. Depending on which end of the spectrum you are on it can be good or bad. I've bought and sold over 150 bows in the past three years. I've enjoyed every minute of it. I keep a detailed spreadsheet and I've averaged a loss of 60% since inception. That's pretty poor ROI but I can either quit buying/selling, be more patient on my sales or not worry about it. I choose the last option. I sell bows cheap sometimes b/c I don't like to see them sit, not b/c I'm desperate for money. All in all it's good fun.
X2
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Maybe we're all filled up for now. There is no dramatic shift in what kind of bows everyone needs to have and most folks have what they need. I have not given anyone a bow in over a year, I have run out of receivers. Low deer numbers around here and reducing access to hunting land has slowed the shift of people that are willing to try traditional archery.
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Dragonheart, I asked a question,I don't understand your response.
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Tique I agree. I would be willing to pay the fee to sell some of my bows through a reputable dealer if the buyers could buy for no service fee. If the service is just provided for the fellowship of the ones who want to particepate than that is fine with me, but at this time I myself am not interested in that.
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Originally posted by Mark R:
Hey why charge for shopping.
Did not realize that was a question. There has been much discussion about the contributor-classifieds issue that some people have. I thought you were making a statment due to the lack of a ? That is the nature of my post with the "beating the dead horse".
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Yeah, that issue has pretty much been beaten to death.
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I believe the used bow market has always had it's ups and downs. Sometimes it takes 10 minutes to sell a bow......sometimes 10 weeks. I do know that when bows are priced right......they don't last long. That's not saying you give them away...but!!
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By no means am I wealthy and hate to lose money on bow sales but whether (or how much) I lose is my decision. I truly appreciate this site and the ability to shop for used equipment, even with the $30. contribution. Terry and the Gang run a great operation and without TG, it would be a lonely place for me.
Over the past several months I have bought and sold maybe 10 bows. What I pay was negotiated between me and the seller and what I sell for is up to me, as long as the market will justify it. I have taken a beating on bows (some new and some used) within this time period but every decision was made by me alone. I really didn't want to loose as much money as I did but the market just will not support my asking price so I had to decide whether or not I could afford the loss. Seeing a new bow I want to try forces me to decide whether my "Kitty" funds will allow it and lately, I have needed to pass on some great looking bows.
Hopefully things will turn soon and we fellow "Bo-Ho's" can get back to a more profitable buying/selling experience.
Good huntin' guys.
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Why buy used when there are TONS of new bows out there for just $500 and some as low as $250-$300.
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Buclkeye Hunter: Why buy used when there are TONS of new bows out there for just $500 and some as low as $250-$300.
Sixby, Probably for the same reason I bought a perfect used Lincoln Towncar instead of a new car with lesser performance and class. I have just always liked great quality over utility.
I believe Its just that some people see things differently. For instance I know guys that throw bows out of their tree stands and over fences, beat the tar out of them ,. I can hunt rough country for a month and never scratch a bow. I have taken the fall many times and held my bow up so it didn't get broken.
Anyway neither is necessarily wrong but I feel like I will save the money to buy what I want or catch it in good used condition rather than buy a cheap car or bow or arrows or whatever for that matter.
God Bless, Steve
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I would probably have bought a bow or two from the classifieds on this forum if you didn't have to pay to "Look" at what was there. I bet a lot of other people are the same way. You could probably do a poll and find this to be true.
I can see charging for listing items, but not to browse or buy. Just telling you why I haven't bought anything over the forum. Maybe I am cheap, but I do not want to pay unless I know there is something I want to buy. Imagine having to buy a membership to shop online at 3 Rivers or any other archery shop, They wouldn't get my business if I had to pay to browse what they had for sale. :rolleyes:
No offense Terry, love the site.
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Originally posted by LB_hntr:
You guys think you got it tough...try selling a left hand bow that's about 70# at a normal 28" draw. All my bows fit this category. Takes me forever to sell and usually has to be for dirt cheap. Literally near impossible.
I hope to buy one of your bows from you in a few years. I want to be able to shoot a hybrid longbow with high draw weight with ease soon! Just need the coin and strength!
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I have had no problems since deciding to take what limited commerce I do to the LW and Tradtalk. Shipping rates are bad enough, without a $30 fee to participate. The minimum post rule years ago took care of 90% of the hustlers. The dishonest will find ways around anything.
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I'm sure it's been said but It is a real shame that this has to occur. I've been very fortunate on TG and have bought and sold a bunch of bows with no issues.
I've been a contributor for a few years as well just because I enjoyed a lot of info and advice from this site. I've been away from the site for a while and unfortunately I will probably have to wait until next November to become a contributor again as I can't justify 30. bucks for a partial year browsing. Unfortunately money is tight these days
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Terry and his moderators run a great site here, no argument about that.
I have been a contributor to Tradgang twice, once before the classifieds' fee and once after the classifieds' fee started last year. I found that I didn't do a lot of buying and selling last year so I didn't contribute this year. I've gotten into a few other things besides archery that have required membership fees this year so I just decided that I can't afford everything which is why I cut the classifieds' fees to Tradgang for this year. Who knows, I may decide to contribute next year.
I did notice last year that there just wasn't as much traffic in the classifieds and I believe that it's because less people are using it because of the fees. I've never had a bit of trouble from buying, selling, or trading on here, before or after the fees were put into play.
In my opinion, I believe the lower amount of transactions on the site is a mixture of all of the things mentioned above, with the main issue being less people browsing because they either can't or won't pay to use the classifieds.
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It's my understanding that the fee was instituted in part to keep the scamers away. If it helps fund the site, so much the better. I'm generally not a cheerleader, but for all the good information and entertainment this site provides, I don't understand all the complaining about the $30 fee. Been to a movie or out to eat lately? Purchase an item for bow hunting? Compare it to just about anything else you spend money on, and it's a pittance.
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Nobody uses those antique bows anymore.
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Gee wizz. 30 bucks. I'm retired and the wife and I spend that much for a movie and popcorn. Cry me a river.
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I'm amazed that these threads always come back to the fee to look at the classifieds. I've seen people say I need to spend the thirty dollars somewhere else. For the people wanting to come on here and buy things,if you can't afford $30,you sure can't afford one of these bows that are going for so little. Bows weren't selling that much better,and for a whole lot more before the fee.
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to me $30.00 a year is pretty cheap for the education you can get here. the classified's are
just a bonus.
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Originally posted by Orion:
It's my understanding that the fee was instituted in part to keep the scamers away. If it helps fund the site, so much the better. I'm generally not a cheerleader, but for all the good information and entertainment this site provides, I don't understand all the complaining about the $30 fee. Been to a movie or out to eat lately? Purchase an item for bow hunting? Compare it to just about anything else you spend money on, and it's a pittance.
EXATCLY x2!!
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Originally posted by Alexander Traditional:
......Bows weren't selling that much better,and for a whole lot more before the fee.
Actually, before the fee, there were more bows and other stuff in the classifieds and more buyers. More buyers equals bows selling for a whole lot more money.
Make no mistake, I'm not griping about the fees. I'm just stating the obvious. There are less people browsing the classifieds now than there were before the fees started, like it or not.
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Originally posted by ishoot4thrills:
Originally posted by Alexander Traditional:
......Bows weren't selling that much better,and for a whole lot more before the fee.
Actually, before the fee, there were more bows and other stuff in the classifieds and more buyers. More buyers equals bows selling for a whole lot more money.
Make no mistake, I'm not griping about the fees. I'm just stating the obvious. There are less people browsing the classifieds now than there were before the fees started, like it or not. [/b]
I understand what you are saying,and it's true less people looking less people buying,but I get so tired of people saying they can't afford the fee,well then you sure can't afford a new bow.
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Originally posted by Orion:
It's my understanding that the fee was instituted in part to keep the scamers away. If it helps fund the site, so much the better. I'm generally not a cheerleader, but for all the good information and entertainment this site provides, I don't understand all the complaining about the $30 fee. Been to a movie or out to eat lately? Purchase an item for bow hunting? Compare it to just about anything else you spend money on, and it's a pittance.
X2....well said.
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Originally posted by ishoot4thrills:
Originally posted by Alexander Traditional:
......Bows weren't selling that much better,and for a whole lot more before the fee.
Actually, before the fee, there were more bows and other stuff in the classifieds and more buyers. More buyers equals bows selling for a whole lot more money.
Make no mistake, I'm not griping about the fees. I'm just stating the obvious. There are less people browsing the classifieds now than there were before the fees started, like it or not. [/b]
What proof do you have of this claim? Just curious if you have solid evidence or just a hunch.
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[/QUOTE]I understand what you are saying,and it's true less people looking less people buying,but I get so tired of people saying they can't afford the fee,well then you sure can't afford a new bow. [/QB][/QUOTE]
This is not true and more than a little insulting. I absolutely can afford a new bow or used bow. I also can afford to pay the 30 fee to use the classifieds. I simply choose not to. I really enjoy this site and I generally make it a point to use the above links at least a few times when I want to buy things from contributor sites like Kustom King (who I found out about through this forum). I have no issue if this site has a fee to use the classifieds nor am I "whining about it". Great site anyway.
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A lot of people buy expensive bows that cannot afford them. A lot of people take expensive hunts that cannot afford them. Some of us are dreamers. To have a dream is not a bad thing. Perhaps it keeps someone working that is really a mountainman at heart. I've observed over time that someone that starts wanting something lets that wanter work on them until they find a way to get it.
I tend to agree with two things I have read here. The fee definitely limits people that brouse the site in two ways. #1, is a little bit of rebel in us all says no way Jose are you going to charge me something to look.
#2. They actually cannot afford it. True that in this case they could not immediately buy one of these bow anyway and if they did it would take away from their family.
I see the good side in that it does help to keep charlatins out but then I thought that the posts #s had accomplished that. Anyway this is the safest site by far to perform a transaction and honestly 30. is not too much to do that.
As far as what Ed is seeing in slow and low sales prices that is a combination of low brouser numbers but it is more than that a very bad and unstable economy due to us insisting on being a third world country.
God bless, Steve
God bless you all, Steve
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Originally posted by Jakeemt:
I understand what you are saying,and it's true less people looking less people buying,but I get so tired of people saying they can't afford the fee,well then you sure can't afford a new bow. [/b][/QUOTE]
This is not true and more than a little insulting. I absolutely can afford a new bow or used bow. I also can afford to pay the 30 fee to use the classifieds. I simply choose not to. I really enjoy this site and I generally make it a point to use the above links at least a few times when I want to buy things from contributor sites like Kustom King (who I found out about through this forum). I have no issue if this site has a fee to use the classifieds nor am I "whining about it". Great site anyway. [/QB][/QUOTE]
I'm sorry that it's insulting to you. I wasn't talking about you. It's the people that talk about the $30 like it's breaking the bank,well like you said then it's your purgative not to get in on it. These things always get so far off subject,and this is the first time i've actually gotten into one of these debates. I think I will just stay out of it from now on,and let the bosses deal with it.
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Alexander-Lol fair enough. This is the first one of these threads I have ever waded in on. Perhaps I am just being too sensitive. I think I will follow your lead and just stay the heck out of these threads too!
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They're not looking for a new bow, they're looking for a used bow. And it's not just bows they're looking for. It's quivers, arrows, fletchers, broadheads, packs, etc. Add $30.00 plus $10.00 shipping to a package of 3 broadheads for $25.00 and that equates to $65.00.
People are cutting back on spending and the things that aren't absolutely necessary are the first things to get cut. I know, I've been there, just like a lot of you have too. Maybe you've just forgotten. Oh, btw, the bow IS a necessity!
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Originally posted by David Mitchell:
Originally posted by ishoot4thrills:
Originally posted by Alexander Traditional:
......Bows weren't selling that much better,and for a whole lot more before the fee.
Actually, before the fee, there were more bows and other stuff in the classifieds and more buyers. More buyers equals bows selling for a whole lot more money.
Make no mistake, I'm not griping about the fees. I'm just stating the obvious. There are less people browsing the classifieds now than there were before the fees started, like it or not. [/b]
What proof do you have of this claim? Just curious if you have solid evidence or just a hunch. [/b]
No hunch. No solid evidence. Just common sense and noticing just by browsing the classifieds last year.
Lot's of new members everyday. Do you really think that many new members are gonna jump right in and contribute with their money right off the bat? Before the fees they would be browsing the free classifieds and making deals immediately. Yeah, some would be trying to screw people without paying for the goods, I know that. But still, more people browsing the classifieds means more deals and competition in buying.
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm NOT against the fees and I understand why they're put in place. But, again, understand that there's just not gonna be as many people browsing the classifieds because of the fees. Just more HONEST people maybe.
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Originally posted by elknutz:
Gee wizz. 30 bucks. I'm retired and the wife and I spend that much for a movie and popcorn. Cry me a river.
:thumbsup:
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HHmmm.......I see more people crying because they're not selling as much stuff on here than I do from people crying about the $30.00!
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Originally posted by ishoot4thrills:
They're not looking for a new bow, they're looking for a used bow. And it's not just bows they're looking for. It's quivers, arrows, fletchers, broadheads, packs, etc. Add $30.00 plus $10.00 shipping to a package of 3 broadheads for $25.00 and that equates to $65.00.
People are cutting back on spending and the things that aren't absolutely necessary are the first things to get cut. I know, I've been there, just like a lot of you have too. Maybe you've just forgotten. Oh, btw, the bow IS a necessity!
I buy probably 20 items a year on the classifieds. That works out to $1.50 per item. If I save $5.00 per item by buying used rather than new, it is a $70 savings for me on the year. If I save $2-300 on a bow, then it is really great value. I didn't include anything about shipping, as I have to pay for that if I buy new or used. The $30 is worth it for the peace of mind that I'm most likely dealing with good folks.
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Good for you, Hermon. Not everybody does the same as you.
Once again, please don't misunderstand me, I'm NOT against the fees and I understand why they're put in place. But, again, understand that there's just not gonna be as many people browsing the classifieds because of the fees. Just more HONEST people maybe.
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You are absolutely correct Douglas, more HONEST people here, imo. But I still don't think that the fees really are having a downside to the bow market. It is a buyers market in lots of things these days. I occasionally glance at another traditional board that was started in the last year or so. No fees to see or list/browse on the classifieds. There is basically no traffic on that board. Only a handful of adds and many of them are months old. Hardly ever see a bow marked sold. I don't think that we are on opposite sides of this topic, I just don't feel that the nominal fee really has much effect. Those of us that are going to buy/sell are still here. Just sometimes the item selling doesn't find the buyer interested in it right away.
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Hermon, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Lot's of new members everyday. Do you really think that many new members are gonna jump right in and contribute with their money right off the bat? Before the fees they would be browsing the free classifieds and making deals immediately. Yeah, some would be trying to screw people without paying for the goods, I know that. But still, more people browsing the classifieds means more deals and competition in buying.
Good debate though.
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"To each his own." It's not a matter of affording it, simply a matter of principle that I'm not going to do it! Can't remember the last movie I went to and haven't missed that over-priced activity in the least! I'm more of a "beware the man with one bow" type guy anyway. I've been blessed to own many, but honestly there isn't that much difference in them. Nowhere near the potential that exists for me to simply become better by shooting what I own. But we all like to tinker with different arrows, heads, quivers, etc. and to be honest I've had the most fun on the LW's monthly "swap and trade" threads. I get something I want to try and the other guy does too, shipping's all we pay!
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OK, I'll settle for more HONEST people. :biglaugh: They are the ones I prefer to deal with.
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I love to browse the classifieds on TG. I did it for about 8-9 years before the fee kicked in. Now that I can't access the ads, I probably only spend 20% of the time on TG that I used to. The classifieds drew me in to the site when the thread topics and discussions would get slow. I loved to see all the stuff for sale, and learned a lot from it, although I didn't do a lot of transactions. I'd pop on for "just a minute" to check the ads, and end up in "dangerous game" or some other area before I knew it.
I became a paid contributor before the fee, as well. And I paid the fee to get access to the classifieds for the first year. I was much more of a buyer than a seller, though I did both. But the prospect of paying $300 over the next 10 years to browse the classifieds is not very appealing to me. So, until I have something specific that I need to buy, that I can't buy on the big auction site or at a sponsor, I will hold off on paying the $30.
Since I'm not retired, am raising kids, and mine aren't the only hobbies in the family, those fees are going somewhere else. It's a good thing too, because I was known for browsing with no intent to buy, and then ending up having to explain to my wife why a package just arrived in the mail!
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If I was a Railroad Engineer I would have no problem with money.
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Please explain to me how paying 30$, 50$, or even 75& going to stop some bent on gyping someone out of 300$ or more.
I have been on Trad Gang for many years and hope to continue and like some I loved to browse the classifieds and miss just window shopping. This is a great and hope it continues, thanks for listening.
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A lot of fine people on this site, but I don't think that it has as many visitors as it used to. I have no evidence. That is simply how it seems to me.
Some of you who have belonged to this site longer than I have might have greater perspective.
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Originally posted by Archie:
I love to browse the classifieds on TG. I did it for about 8-9 years before the fee kicked in. Now that I can't access the ads, I probably only spend 20% of the time on TG that I used to. The classifieds drew me in to the site when the thread topics and discussions would get slow. I loved to see all the stuff for sale, and learned a lot from it, although I didn't do a lot of transactions. I'd pop on for "just a minute" to check the ads, and end up in "dangerous game" or some other area before I knew it.
I became a paid contributor before the fee, as well. And I paid the fee to get access to the classifieds for the first year. I was much more of a buyer than a seller, though I did both. But the prospect of paying $300 over the next 10 years to browse the classifieds is not very appealing to me. So, until I have something specific that I need to buy, that I can't buy on the big auction site or at a sponsor, I will hold off on paying the $30.
Since I'm not retired, am raising kids, and mine aren't the only hobbies in the family, those fees are going somewhere else. It's a good thing too, because I was known for browsing with no intent to buy, and then ending up having to explain to my wife why a package just arrived in the mail!
You just described me!
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Hmmm.... maybe that is a good idea, let people browse for free but you have to pay the fee to buy or sell. Then again, I know absolutely zero about running a website. That may not even be possible.
I'm just concerned that there's not as many people on here as there used to be.
I do remember before the fee, the classifieds had become such a hassle, that Terry was considering doing away with them altogether.
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I do not buy much anymore but instead of paying 30.00 I advertize for 50.00 bucks tax deduc.I will probably never sell any realestate here but I have met and made friends with app. 40 new people that I will never forget, on hunting trips I took and will be taking others down the road.I just wish I would have thought of this site before Terry.Kip :bigsmyl: :campfire:
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I wonder how many contributors there is?
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Guys, I just think it is not going to change. Terry is happy now with the near hassle-free classifieds AND he's getting revenue he never had. He has said many times this is a bowhunting site and not a flea market site.
I know I would not change it if I were boss.
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I agree with Archie and Archer Dave regarding their comments. I used to enjoy browsing the ads here and purchased a number of bows/accessories, sold some as well. It was fun and made the other features of the site all that much more interesting (I posted much more back then as well). Though I'm not a fan of paying to look and shop I do believe that site administrators have every right to charge a fee if they so choose. It's a basic right of free enterprise and from that perspective it's a hard point to argue against. Does it cause folks to leave or perhaps limit their visits here? Probably, but it is what it is and like any change people will adapt to it in their own way.
As far as the issue of used bows selling poorly, I feel that much of the current resale problem is connected to the rash of inexpensive new imported bows that are flooding the market through E**y and via domestic manufacturers who import and sell them under their own company (or a subsidiary company) name. It's easy to see how cheaper imports are attractive to newcomers and even to archery veterans looking for bargains, but it sure doesn't do any favors for custom bowyers, used bow shops or average guys posting their high-quality used bows in the classifieds. Again, free enterprise at work doesn't always have the results we're all looking for, but it is what it is.
Kinda' makes you wonder what's in store down the road.
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TSP - I agree with your point as well about free enterprise. The TG administration can go about their business as they please... they make the decisions. My way to adapt to the change need not be the same as everyone else's, and vice versa.
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Originally posted by ranger 3:
I wonder how many contributors there is?
X2. Interesting to know for each year it has been in place.
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Originally posted by Tall Paul:
Hmmm.... maybe that is a good idea, let people browse for free but you have to pay the fee to buy or sell. Then again, I know absolutely zero about running a website. That may not even be possible.
I'm just concerned that there's not as many people on here as there used to be.
I do remember before the fee, the classifieds had become such a hassle, that Terry was considering doing away with them altogether.
I belong to a more locally oriented site which is not strictly bowhunting and covers a lot of outdoors ground and you pay to sell ($15) but can buy and browse for free. I kind of like that arrangement myself. Makes perfect sense.
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That $30 saved my almost $1400 when I bought a new Tip and new TTs, both with all the bells and whistles. I haven't sold on here in awhile though.
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They say the definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting different results. The people who own/manage this sight decided to get off the crazy bus and they tell us it's working and they don't have to spend time managing dealsthat have gone south. There's a few easy choices if we don't agree. .......pay to play and just agree to disagree. ......start another site with rules as you see fit.......or use another site
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Cannot give them away? Yesterday, I tried to give a longbow away that I was not using. The guy did not want it. Another person wanted it, but could not begin to pull it. It is easier to sell them than to find the right person to give them to. Maybe this would be a good time for me to stock up on 45 pound recurves.
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I said it earlier and I will say it again. I think the classified would work much better and allow people to sell a lot more if it was open to all members to look and buy, but cost $30 for those wanting to be able to sell.
If you sell a lot of stuff the $30 is cheap for the service. However if you just want to buy a few field points for $4, then the $30 membership adds a lot to the price.
You attract buyers by allowing them to buy without a fee. More buyers equals more sellers. Look at the big auction site. It charges a fee for selling, but none for buying. Now they sell billions a year, but would not if they charged a membership for looking.
I am all for paying a fee if I want to sell something on the site. I would be paying for a service. However I do not want to pay a fee just to browse.
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Well gentlemen, I've followed this thread and thought I would let you know I run a home for orphan bows.... :) :)
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Originally posted by cmh:
Well gentlemen, I've followed this thread and thought I would let you know I run a home for orphan bows.... :) :)
:biglaugh:
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I agree with Archer Dave. I would like to have everyone have the ability to brouse and buy but have to pay to be able to sell. That would be the most equitable but perhaps not as generative to the site moneywise.
God bless you all and have a wonderful Easter, Steve
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:deadhorse:
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Talk about deals I bought eds kayapoo and absolutely love it
Thank you Ed.
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Originally posted by Alexander Traditional:
Originally posted by cmh:
Well gentlemen, I've followed this thread and thought I would let you know I run a home for orphan bows.... :) :)
:biglaugh: [/b]
Someone's gotta do it lol ;)
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I wonder if this thread and its popularity is hindering new classifieds listings.
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Originally posted by Archie:
I decided not to be a paid contributor this year. I'm not living very high on the hog, and that $30 is something I should use elsewhere. I'm probably not the only one.
It would be nice if it was a one-time fee instead of annually. It definitely impacts my browsing, and if I ain't browsin', I ain't buyin'.
This is me too. Many things that I can spend that fee on especially when I don't purchase much, most of my action was trades.
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I like the idea that browsing should be free but to sell you have to pay the $30.
Even better, I think the site would benefit much more if the $30 was removed and then the site asked ALL members to contribute some amount for the upkeep of the site. There could be levels of contributors.
One of the gun forums that has been around a LONG time and that I have been a member of since 1999 done a similar thing where they simply asked all the members to contribute if they enjoyed the site and they did. They have thousands of members and many of them sent in a contribution.
I would bet that there would be FAR MORE members willing to contribute $5, $10 or $15 per year rather than pay $30 just to browse the Classifieds.
But what do I know.
Nalajr
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Are you listening Terry?
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I usually buy several bows each year. I Personally found that I could find better deals when not looking on item specific websites.... people tend to "over estimate" what their item is truly worth on them (ex. selling a tree saddle on a hunting site, bow on a bow site, kayak on a kayak site, etc.) Not all but some.
Very few items ever maintain a true 80-90% resale value - very few---- nor should they. I picked up a really nice - NEW custom longbow from a well known bowyer's website last year cheaper then what I saw a couple people trying to resale the same type USED bow on here???
There are just so many amazing bowyers out there right now making great products to support most bows being resold at 80-90% of their purchase price - unless that bow is just something you have to have or has become a collectors item.
The other factor I think was that a lot of folks went through the trad archery frenzy/phase over last decade or so - now that frenzy has moved to crossbows as more and more states are opening up archery seasons to them and the manufacturers are pumping 100,000s of dollars into advertising. We are left with an abundance of used bows on the market as a result of this shift. My experience is that most that try trad archery on a whim seldom stick with it for more then a few years.... they keep upgrading to the newest and bestest bow each year as they expect it to make up for their lack of time and commitment - thus after a few years they return to something that requires far less time/commitment.
Just one man's HO
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I listed a bear 59r this morning, and it was sold within an hour. I think if you list it right it will sell
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Look at it this way, we can still buy from the sponsors.
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Originally posted by Brianlocal3:
I listed a bear 59r this morning, and it was sold within an hour. I think if you list it right it will sell
Exactly my experience. If you have a bow that people want and you price it right, they sell. I have no problem moving bows here.
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I'd like to complement Terry and the mods for letting this thread run its course. Being able to comment all the facets of this situation is great! Thanks guys!! :clapper:
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I never really understood the $30 thing for the Classifieds. My memory isn't as good as it used to be, but I don't recall rampant fraud in the Classifieds or a slew of members complaining that they were ripped off. Maybe it happened and I didn't pay attention to it and now maybe it's taken care of with the fee to browse.
I like the site and would contribute some if a PayPal program were set up and the $30 fee removed. I'm sure many others would gleefully drop some coin to the site too.
Right now I am thinking about selling a longbow or maybe trying to trade it for another bow, but that $30 will buy me 100 feathers or almost a dozen Easton XX75 GameGetter 2 arrows.
It feels like the vast majority that come here and love the site are being punished by taking away a popular part of the forum unless you pay a fee to "join" the Classifieds section.
I guess there's really no point in beating this horse any longer. It is what it is and that's that. I would like the site to go back to what it was before the fee and instead ask for donations from the masses. They'll give. I'd bet my bow collection on it.
Oh well. I might be in trouble for speaking on it and might not be here tomorrow.
Have a good one fellas.
Nalajr
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Its been said before... Trad gang is not about the classifieds. Most people never heard of the issues of Fraud going on but it had become more than a full time job for the Moderators to resolve.
They have their own jobs and lives to deal with so constant claims work was taking its toll. The menial fee narrowed down the classifieds to mostly honest people and has allowed the Moderators to get back to semi Normal lives.
You didn't hear about it because they dont air dirty laundry. It would only create more issues.
If someone doesn't want to pay the menial contributor fee and probably save up to half on a custom bow, there are other venues to do so at.
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I would like to add Trad gang had tried several other methods to eliminate the scams on the classifieds and they didn't work.
This one is working.
Allowing people to view for free would allow back door sales and still create the same issues.
Trust me, a lot of thought was put into this and it has been working for a couple years now.
Kudos to the Mods and their endless effort to make lives better for everyone involved.
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I just bought a near new high end recurve here and saved about 550.00. 30.00 was a small price to pay to save the 550.00.
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How could a moderator do anything about 2 people entering into an agreement and one of them cheating the other? Sure they can BAN the crooked one AFTER the fact, but it seems to me that the one that rooked another member out of his hard earned money wouldn't stick around after the score to try it again anyway.
You say this method eliminated the fraud...but what is going to happen when a shyster out there has a good score in mind, like saying he has a really nice Bear TD that is very much sought after, and antes up the $30 to post his ad to nail one of the other members for $1500? Is the fee gonna go up to $75 then?
If there was a lot of fraud before...$30 ain't gonna deter those that make HUNDREDS or more from a single score. It doesn't make sense. If you were a crook and knew you could nail someone and make $500...would you let $30 stand in your way? I wouldn't and neither would it stop someone bent on no good.
So...while you say that all of the rampant fraud has been eliminated, the side effect of the system is to eliminate 90% of the people that once enjoyed the Classified section.
How do all the other forums that I am a member of that have Classified sections but don't have a fee to look at them and use them, survive with all the fraud that is taking place in them? I'm talking about a couple dozen gun forums where it is far easier to rook someone out of their money than a TRAD bow site with a far smaller pool of interested people to begin with. Out of the dozens and dozens of forums I am a member of and participated in since 1999, when I first joined an online forum, this is the only one I have ever seen that charges members to use the Classifieds. Was something going on here before the fee that was unique to Trad Gang?
The best and most effective way to deal with fraud is by letting members warn other members about who is doing it and what the scam is all about.
Everyone can believe what they want about this issue. I am not going to say anything else. It serves no purpose other than to get me banned.
I'll leave it to the Trad Gang Intelligentsia to do as they wish. I'm probably not sharp enough to tackle such weighty issues anyway.
Larry.
P.S. If my membership is through..I've enjoyed my time here very much over the years. Best of luck to you all.
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Larry, You make some interesting points.
Trad Gang has helped resolve fraudulent activity by contacting authorities and other methods to resolve losses. Not saying they are willing to continue to go that far in the future.
You mention the fee might go up if there is another robbery... It may... But the slippery slope theory is unfounded.
All I can say is... the proof is in the puttin. They went from Dozens of problem transactions in a year to one in 2 years.
I cant speak for the other sites you mention but for a scam artist, its far easier to go elsewhere and steal for free.
You are correct, the buyer and seller have to accept responsibility and use common sense. You are also Correct that 30 dollars will not stop thieves hellbent to score but it will deter them as it already has.
Walking into someone's house and complaining about their rules doesn't make for a very welcome guest. This fee has been initiated and is the way it is. No amount of debate will change it as Trad Gang is about Bow Hunting not bow selling.
Getting back to the original poster, The market is slow, nothing more nothing less. Its the same on all the FREE sites as well. They are the same bows as here anyhow. The nice thing about here is, you can add as many photos as you would like in one post.
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It's fun seeing the ads and they add a lot to the forum. Do see the same guys selling succesfully over and over, so not all people are having trouble selling. Still the best place for me, who may buy this later year after I know I can make it through the year and pay all the unexpected costs for just plain living. Now is the wrong time to buy for me.
With this forum, theres no bidding, honest descriptions, and good trad shooting people with similar interests. If one of my friends wanted to shoot trad and would want to know where to look for a bow, I would encourage him to pay up and join the forum, watch a while, then buy from a member.
As for sellars, if you want a good quality customer, this is the place, but if you have to unload a bow fast, then take your chances in another market place and just hope you get a good customer. I would guess there are only good quality customers here. But many of us who are retired and older, may have something we already like to shoot, and we also may have small pockets.
Sure like his forum.
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Originally posted by Cyclic-Rivers:
Walking into someone's house and complaining about their rules doesn't make for a very welcome guest. This fee has been initiated and is the way it is.
I wouldn't call myself a guest here. It's true that members here do not build and maintain the site.(which btw the mods and TG do a good job of IMO) however this site also exists and turns a profit because of it's members. Contributors or not. Does that entitle me to say and do anything I want here? Of course not. Nor does it entitle me to make the rules. However, voicing an opinion about a policy in a respectful way is something quite different.
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Excellent response Nala. I often wondered the same thing myself. What did the moderators do to resolve a bad transaction.... or what could they even do? Banning the culprit is about their only recourse.
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Originally posted by Wudstix:
Originally posted by Archie:
It would be nice if it was a one-time fee instead of annually. It definitely impacts my browsing, and if I ain't browsin', I ain't buyin'.
This is me too. Many things that I can spend that fee on especially when I don't purchase much, most of my action was trades. [/b]
I know its been beat to death but I have never given my two cents on this and its bugged me since its inception.
I agree with a one time $30 fee. Once you pay and are determined not to be a thief why should you have to prove that again and again?
Before the fee I bought and sold dozens of bows. If possible (I do know these canned forum softwares have their design limitations) there should be some sort of seller rating system like the big auction sites have. Then its buyer beware and TG mods should not get involved in any scam. If you are buying from a new member that has no transaction history that's your risk.
I have a love for a beautiful bow and don't need anymore thats for sure. Since the fee was implemented It has been my intervention and I haven't been able to make any impulse buys.
My wife is very happy about the annual fee. :thumbsup:
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Since the adoption of the fee this is THE ONLY place now where I sell. I feel that confident about it. I gladly contribute to the site.
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"Walking into someone's house and complaining about their rules doesn't make for a very welcome guest. This fee has been initiated and is the way it is. No amount of debate will change it as Trad Gang is about Bow Hunting not bow selling."
Well said. My feeling is that we are all guests here. Nobody is reaching out and asking me to come here. IMO $30. is a heck of a deal for this site WITHOUT the classifieds.
:deadhorse:
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You're taunting me, aren't you David :biglaugh:
I'll say again...for me it's not the $30...it's what I'll spend AFTER the $30 access.
I think some of the scams caused scammed members to compel Terry to get involved. I'm sure Terry felt some obligation to get involved. The fee cut down on his getting involved so he can focus more on his life, family, and job. And if it cut his involvement down to zero, then why not do it? For family sake. For sanity sake.
He offers contributors a nice "raffle" opportunity of a hunt. It's like buying a raffle ticket for $30 for a hunt that would be hundreds of dollars in value otherwise. And other items are randomly given to contributors as well.
Pay to play, or not. Just don't critically gripe. Disagree respectfully, if you must. Clicking on any site is a choice. Not clicking on any site is a choice.
I'll keep clicking on here daily.
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I think what folks are missing is that Tradgang is a business, they can run their business anyway they want. I run mine the way I want, it is the right of anyone that runs a business. What I hate is selling bows, I like giving them to those that can use them. What I hate more is when guys that I have given bows to, turn around and sell them for pure profit, rather than giving them back so I can give them away again. At times it is better to sell things outright and a forum is a good place to do that.
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Bud B., taunting? Me? :confused: Now why on earth would a nice guy like me do a sneaky thing like that? :D
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...dozens of problems in one year to one in two years.
Seems obvious as 70% of the people that were looking, aren't anymore. I bought and sold many bows but my favorite was trading "stuff" with others....since the change,"0". I miss the meeting of new people through PM's and such. Not worth $30 every year though.
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Well said. My feeling is that we are all guests here. Nobody is reaching out and asking me to come here. :deadhorse: [/QB]
I have to respectfully disagree. The site owner and moderates ask me to come here. The more posts members make and traffic they generate the more sponsors will want to pay for advertising here. They know that a member or two will click on one of the links above do a little browsing and buy something. Same with the little hobby business. They can make all the products they want but, without people to sell them to they can't make a little extra on the side. I just bought some ace broadheads from Kustom King and some D97 from 3 rivers not all that long ago. I found both those sites through this forum. When I built my first woodies I used supplies from Kustom King, 3 rivers, and Surewood. Then built them with help from this site. So really it is a 3 way street. I needed the site for help on how to build them and where to buy supplies from, those business needed a way fro me to find them, and the forum needed active members to help and direct me so their sponsors have a reason to keep up the advertising.
See my point?
Jake
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I've paid the 30 bucks since there was a charge for the classifieds. I enjoy being able to purchase or sell stuff on this site. I don't believe I've advertised something for sale in the last two years. I believe the site got more action before the 30 buck charge. Not sure I will keep it up as the classifieds seem to be a bit stagnant with the present system. I liked the old system better and taking a chance was the way it was. 30 bucks doesn't guarantee to keep out the undesirables.
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IMHO the "minimum post" rule took care of the "scamming". It wasn't the mods responsibility to begin with. A little common sense goes a long way, but you're not going to eliminate dishonest people. I was lucky that I never had a single problem here, not have I had the first problem since taking my commerce elsewhere, with no rules of any kind. A little research indicating that the majority of somebody's posts is on a classifieds tells you all you need to know!
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Quite a discussion.
While I agree the market is a bit disinterested in buying the past 2 years, I haven't attributed it to the way the Classified's work.
It would be my guess that most who are interested in buying and selling are willing contributors. Those who decline to contribute are probably less inclined to buy or sell anyway. Good for them, they probably show more restraint and common sense than I do! Of course there are exceptions.
In the case of us lefties, I think some of the bows I own have been passed around a lot. I can say for sure some bows I've seen in the classifieds (I check em just for fun at least once a day -- every time I log into Trad Gang) I would have bought 3-5 years ago. These days I am much more picky after having tried many.
Accept for a couple people here I've known outside TradGang, all of the people I've met "virtually" and feel like I now "know" have been lefties I've done "business" with in the classifieds; RW, Billy, John, Bucky, and half dozen others.
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You want a bow to move quick? Advertise you'll take $5 off a day until it sells :-)
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My only concern is that maybe we have less traffic here due to the $30 fee.
I know this is a slow time of year for bow hunting websites, but it seems like a lot of people-that were regulars-have disappeared.
I just wonder if that is partially due to the fee.
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There is a similar discussion going on at a muzzle loading site that I,and at least a couple other guys here too ;) , frequent.
Before I had good buys with no problems but now, at my age I have enough "stuff" so will just save my money for the St Jude's auction and see what comes up.
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I agree that the mods shouldn't have to mess with this stuff. It should be a "buyer beware" system. BUT, all of TG gets a bad rap when a few bad deals happen.
So on the one hand, I won't pay the fee just to view the classifieds until I have $30 to give away.
On the other hand, I thought TG was worth the $ per year just for what I learned from being part of it, so I became a contributor. Lately, however, I think it has changed a bit. It seems like I'm seeing less posting by the "old salts", and fewer action-packed bowhunting threads than before. Previously, I decided to stop buying my trad bowhunting magazines, and spent the money on being a TG contributor. Now I'm thinking of buying magazines again.
So, the long and the short of it to me is, I think maybe we should determine whether we want to be contributors to TG or not, and take the benefits (or lack thereof) with it, instead of thinking about paid access to the classifieds.
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Here is what 30 bucks got me
1. Trust
2. Knowledgeable buyers
3. Trust
4. Smooth transactions
5. Dealing with people who are awesome to deal with
I've tried the other sites, and the experience is not the same as what the 30 bucks gets me here. But now that I sold all of the bows I wanted to, I guess I'll just enjoy browsing.
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It all comes down to priorities. I obviously don't know the financial situation of any Tradgang member, but I can tell you I am a man of modest means and I know I piss away $30.00 on a lot less worthy things over the course of a year. Well worth it to me. I spend $30.00 at the concession stand watching my kids High School sporting events.
I think it is more of a matter of principle for many folks. They just don't think they should have to pay to use the classifieds, wouldn't matter if it were $5.00. To each his own.
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10-4 Burnsie.
BTW, if you are spending your $30 just to look at the classifieds, then I think you are wasting your money. For folks who want to sell a bow or some other hunting stuff occasionally...or buy something...then it's money not wasted.
Yeah, it's been slow, but if the item is not overpriced, too heavy, too light, wronghanded, too short, too long, blah, blah, blah...then it will sell...I think. :rolleyes:
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I don't think $30 is to much to ask for all the knowledge, great people, respect, sponsor access, hunting stories, and fun tradgang has to offer.
I wonder how many users would be willing to pay $30 for full access, (not just for the classifieds)?
Would that make it seem more like you were getting your money's worth?
It's $2.50 per month.
I'm not a contributor at present because I have plenty of bows...(racks are overflowing.)
On the other hand, I never did quite figure out how paying $30 was eliminating dishonest sellers.
If I was a crook, I would just pay the $30, keep on dealing till I got thrown off.
Someone has to explain to me how a $30 fee makes it safer.
I never got a bad deal either way, so I'm not sure.
Then again, there are a lot of things I can't figure out.
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I like the way Archie put it at the end of his last post. I pay the $30 fee and I use the classifieds, but I think of it as paying $30/year to subscribe to the entire site. IMO the mods do a good job and the $30 fee helps keep this a great site without the free-for-all atmosphere of other places.
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Because dead beat, dishonest people are typically lazy and usually broke. Probably aren't willing to lay out the $30.00 bucks in hopes that they "may" be able to scam someone. They want to scam for free, which runs true with the way they think in general. Proof is that the fee has run off a lot of rift raft and the mods are much happier.
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Originally posted by jhk1:
I like the way Archie put it at the end of his last post. I pay the $30 fee and I use the classifieds, but I think of it as paying $30/year to subscribe to the entire site. IMO the mods do a good job and the $30 fee helps keep this a great site without the free-for-all atmosphere of other places.
X2
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double post
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I didn't pay on time last fall but got er done. Didn't cost no more than the gas to go to a good 3D shoot, or to and from a camp out with the little grand-dudes, or a drive down the road Saturday night for a flat-iron steak. I may be the last member to be even able to buy another bow, but I bet I'm the best member here at watching the ads. I'm already very blessed and very thankful to have a bunch of good ole Bears to shoot.
You can bet-ur booty I'll find a way to get er done and be a supporting member next fall too.
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Originally posted by Babbling Bob:
I didn't pay on time last fall but got er done. Didn't cost no more than the gas to go to a good 3D shoot, or to and from a camp out with the little grand-dudes, or a drive down the road Saturday night for a flat-iron steak. I may be the last member to be even able to buy another bow, but I bet I'm the best member here at watching the ads. I'm already very blessed and very thankful to have a bunch of good ole Bears to shoot.
You can bet-ur booty I'll find a way to get er done and be a supporting member next fall too.
:thumbsup: :campfire:
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I don't pay $30.00 just to gain access to the classifieds , I do it to keep my favorite site alive . I love this place , mods do an awesome job , Thanks Guys
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Originally posted by drewsbow:
I don't pay $30.00 just to gain access to the classifieds , I do it to keep my favorite site alive . I love this place , mods do an awesome job , Thanks Guys
X2. Well said Drew!
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For proof of what we have on this site and the difference. I have a deal to buy a bow from another site. It's not listed here but I really want it. The communication and agreement is no where near what I experience here. It's not close. You get what you pay for here, and that is service. Now I have to cross my fingers when I send the money, pray for me.
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You will yet it, I have bought on this site and all the others and haven't been ripped off.
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David Mitchell...bows are still finding their way to my front door...must be a conspiracy I tell you....
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I enjoy this site and check it often. MaybeIt's just me, but I am not going to pay to shop the ads. I can see charging sellers but not buyers. I wouldnt pay to get into WalMart to look around either.
I buy off the classifieds on the other forums, take some care, and have never had anything but good experiences.
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Walmart doesn't give me what this site does. I wouldn't pay to get in Walmart either. In fact, I stay as far from there as I can most of the time. :D
Bud, just good karma maybe.
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I pay to shop at Costco and am well rewarded by that. I get the lowest prices on gas, great products that are warranted and at prices that are well below average. I can do most of my shopping at one place. I kind of see the adds here in the same perspective.
God bless, Steve
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Don't really buy into the rationalization behind the fee, but it don't really matter to me. I've had no problems finding used bows, off other sites. Bought four in the last year and a half.
That being said, if the owner/operators of TG would donate all proceeds to St. Jude, I would gladly sign up. You know...for the kids.
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Originally posted by ronp:
Originally posted by drewsbow:
I don't pay $30.00 just to gain access to the classifieds , I do it to keep my favorite site alive . I love this place , mods do an awesome job , Thanks Guys
X2. Well said Drew! [/b]
X3!
F-Manny
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Same reason as Archie!
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Same reason as Bud B. and John V.