Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Osage213 on May 14, 2015, 06:49:00 PM
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Does anyone know of anything I could do to help tighten my groups some, like a shooting exercise or anything like that?
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How long have you been shooting a longbow/recurve?
In other words, are you new to this or just asking in general?
I only ask because we need more to go on, before we start making suggestions. The list of things could be quite extensive.....depending on what you've got going on. Be nice to see you shooting (video).
May want to stick this in the Shooters Forum too.
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I just videoed myself shooting. That is the best thing I have found for evaluating my form. It is great to video and then post for Arne Moe, Dave and others to evaluate over on the shooters forum... but it is amazing what you can discover.
Tonight I found I was holding my drawing elbow high. That caused me to torque the string. I didn't notice it by feel... only by watching a video of me shooting.
I also discovered some creep of the arrow (slight collapse) and a less than crisp release.
I was able to correct the elbow immediately and was able to get some very good shots in after that. I am now working on the other issues.
Good luck.
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I've just switched from compound to a recurve probably 2 months ago. I got a 50lb samick sage recurve.
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Be patient. Get on the shooters forum and watch Arne Moe's videos on ***tube. Also, Jimmy Blackmon, Jeff Kavanaugh and others have some good ones.
But again... if you can video yourself, it will really help you as well as others evaluate your form.
Another option is getting a good mentor/coach. Rick Welch and Rod Jenkins both provide great workshops.
And... most of all... keep hanging out here!
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2X fnshtr.
Also, read all you can. I've found re-reading Asbell and Ferguson every 6 months is very helpful.
Asbell will say that when your groups open up, it's usually your bow arm. The key to the bow arm is focus and strength. You're probably using muscles that haven't been used before. I found that weight training in addition to lots and lots of shooting are key to having a solid bow arm.
And that's just for starters.
One reason I love trad so much is that it takes much dedication. But, with patience, you will get that payoff. And, you'll love it.
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Accuracy and repeatability are achieved by learning good form and sequencing, Get a lighter bow to practice these. Lots of good tutorials are out there or instructional DVDS (ie Volume 3 - Masters of the Barebow).
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Originally posted by Osage213:
I've just switched from compound to a recurve probably 2 months ago. I got a 50lb samick sage recurve.
Like said above, give it time! A person can be taught to shoot a compound with sights, and be fairly consistently hitting bulleseyes at 20yds in under an hour.
Stickbows with no sights and no letoff take much longer.
That part of what makes the rewards so much sweeter when we are successful with out trad gear!
And if you can find a Rod Jenkins clinic to attend, you will be very glad!
Keep at it, and good luck!
Bisch
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I recommend having an expert evaluate your shot. The three that consistently come up on this forum are classes by Rod Jenkins or Rick Welch, or sending in a video to the Shooting Form Forum to be evaluated by Arne Moe. There are undoubtedly many other qualified experts out there in addition to these three, but these are the ones that come up time after time on this forum.
Videos and books are also useful. I have read/watched many of them and get new ideas every time I watch a good one.
Shooting lots of shots every day will help you develop a repeatable form. Not necessarily a good form, but repeatable is the foundation for improvement. Hard to improve something that is different every time you do it.
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Thanks everyone for the help, I've shot a compound for probably 10 years and killed a lot of deer with it. I'm gonna stick with it and be dedicated to my recurve, I think it will a big accomplishment to shoot one with my recurve. I probably won't wanna pick my compound back up after I do shoot a deer with my recurve.
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Originally posted by Osage213:
Does anyone know of anything I could do to help tighten my groups some, like a shooting exercise or anything like that?
Are your arrows fine tuned and matched to the bow? and are they all spined the same?
You can't expect tight groups without making sure your arrows are all shooting the same.
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X2 on videoing and sending to Arne Moe. His advice has helped me a lot. And start shooting with a lighter bow is really helpful in developing form, IMO. My 35#@28" longbow doesn't forgive any mistakes when it comes to string/bow torque or release errors. Besides, with a light bow you can shoot all day without getting sore...
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Give it time, son!!! The main reason many former compound users fail to totally commit to Traditional Archery, is because you can't get as GOOD, as FAST, as you can with a compound!!
First! Forget about "groups"... Consistantsy is the key!!! Leave your quiver in the house. Take your bow, 1 arrow, and a paper plate, out to the range. Make a small dot, in the center of the plate, and put it on the backstop. The "goal" is to hit the dot... BUT, the object of the game, is to put EVERY arrow you shoot into that plate... EVERY TIME!!!!!
When you start hitting the dot on a regular basis... Then you an try shooting "groups" and I'm sure you will be very happily suprised!!!!! Keep at it! Don't quit! And keep us posted!!! Good Luck & have FUN!!!!!
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Tonight I was not so good. I switched from longbow to my Grooves recurve. First thing I had to do was slow it all down a little, then go back and get my tab, I tend to hang on the string when I straighten things up to match the recurve grip. Then finally I had to break out a new set of aluminum arrows, then it came together a bit better. Like always, still some work to do. My release is softer than I would like.
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You will get better with time and if you can find anyone in your area to shoot with, have them offer suggestions on improving your form.
Better form will make better groups.
I have been shooting for 5 years and am finally happy with the way I shoot However, I still always try to make each shot count. Every shot is important dont just start flinging arrows unless thats your goal.
There is a shooters form forum on this website. there are people there who will help you..
Enjoy the journey. Its the best part.
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Learn what good form is and then, engrain it into muscle memory by doing nothing but blank/blind bale shooting for 6-8 weeks, pretty much everyday ! This will accomplish much in a short period of time.
It will, keep you from picking up bad habits.
" " ,help strengthen the muscles you'll be using.
" " ,if done correctly, relieve you from having to think about form while shooting, you'll just have to concentrate on hitting the spot on the target.
Good luck and welcome !
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I am also new to trad this year and have a Samick. The stock string is junk. Ideal brace height was 8.25" for me and that really made the bow shoot smoother. I was a little dejected at first with my poor accuracy but just keep it fun. The first time I hit the bull I knew I was never going back to compound.
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if you really want to tighten up those groups, scoot up! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
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Have patience, it takes time mostly, I wasn't happy with my shooting for the first couple years I hunted. I feel like it "clicked" about 3 years into hunting.
4 things that really helped me along the way:
•get personal help, find someone close geographically that can help you through shooting
•understand tuning both paper and bareshaft
•play around with different bows if possible, it took me a few years to find my fit (I highly recommend the classifieds here)
• try both 3under and split shooting styles as well as point on or instinctive style to see what fits you best.
Most importantly, have fun and don't expect anything close to the accuracy you were able to achieve with a compound. You will be hunting with equipment that is far more challenging and limiting to use than modern equipment. Understand, except, and enjoy this aspect of your decision to switch. soak in the pride and satisfaction that comes with the limitation... you deserve to be able to have pride in being a better hunter because switching to traditional equipment will make you a better hunter.
If you plan on hunting I would definately practice from a tree stand or blind a bit before season. Also, preparing for the shot with traditional equipment is a whole new mental game. With a compound you were focused on judging yardage. Now with traditional equipment your focus must be on the animal and playing out the position, location and movements of the shot in your head just before they happen. Its really amazing when it all comes together.
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If you are really set on using traditional archery, I'd look into a nicer bow that fits you. Used prices can be great. Nothing wrong with the samick but there are better ones out there.
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Thanks everyone for the help. My biggest thing is I can't keep it consistent like I would want it to be.
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Originally posted by Osage213:
Thanks everyone for the help, I've shot a compound for probably 10 years and killed a lot of deer with it. I'm gonna stick with it and be dedicated to my recurve, I think it will a big accomplishment to shoot one with my recurve. I probably won't wanna pick my compound back up after I do shoot a deer with my recurve.
Remember accuracy means little in traditional bow hunting. If your not accurate at 20 hunt at 15 yards. If your not accurate at 15 hunt at 10 yards. Point being this sport is about the challenge of getting as close to game as possible and using your mind and muscle memory to but a broadhead into the vitals. Practice as much as you can, get as good as you can and hunt accordingly. But don't beat tour self up to much if you are not shooting as good as you wish you could....none of us do! Get close and hunt hard.
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@osage123: I was in the same place 2 years ago!! I was a decade long compound shooter with excellent groups out to 40yds however I could never connect on an animal bigger than a raccoon. I bought a Samick Sage 50lb and started practicing. The first season I connected on a fat doe and got my first archery kill
My advice: learn about arrow tuning, bareshaft and paper. If your arrows don't fly right for your bow they will never group (I ended up using XX75 2216s with 200gr points cut 29"). Also, buy G. Fred Asbell's book about instinctive archery and the DVD and study them. After that it is just practice in the back yard.
Also, Do not expect to get the groups with your recurve like your compound. It is about hitting a deer, not a target. Focus on 1 arrow at a time not the group. I would shoot 1 arrow before work every morning; it was high stakes and I had to do it cold like on a deer, no second chances.
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A coach could help tremendously. Had one long ago and he really helped me through a winter shooting indoors and by spring it was coming around.