Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Burnsie on May 20, 2015, 11:40:00 AM
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So, I’ve been struggling lately with my consistency. I will shoot some shots and the moment I release the string I can tell the arrow is going to its mark. Everything just "feels" right, my site picture, the release, follow though..etc. But far too frequently the opposite is true – I know the arrow is going to be off the moment I release. When I make a good shot I try to tell myself “now just duplicate that every time”. Easier said than done however. I almost feel like I have ADD or something, why can’t I keep my focus on the spot I’m aiming at and have the same “everything just feels right” moment every time?
Anybody have any tips or practice techniques for capturing and duplicating those great shots consistently?
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I know how you feel. For me, it is practice, pratice, practice, but more importantly it is just having confidence that the shot is going to be good. It is hard for me to get over the having to ADD a little more to the release. No pun intended.
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If you ever figure out the answer to your question, you will be a billionaire!!!
Bisch
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OK, here is my thought on this because I too struggle with this at times. As soon as you make that good shot, during that good shot, there probably wasn't much thought going into it. Now once that great shot is done and you start thinking about what you did right, you're bringing conscious thought into it. I find that if I try to figure out what I did wrong on my bad shots, I'm better off. I just let the good shots happen and analyze the bad ones.
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Use the Force.
Really..
I'm not a great shot..all the time...not even often.
SO I feel your pain.
I find that my best shots or shooting sessions if I'm lucky, happen when I'm in this fuzzy state of mind that lies somewhere between haphazardly shooting and concentrating on all the mechanics of the shot.
I do better when I just let myself go and feel the shot.
..so really..just use the force. :archer2:
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On the good shots, I try to remember the FEEL of the shot - alignment, finger pressure, grip, sight picture, anchor, etc. I work on doing the THINKING about it between shots, rather than during.
One other thing that goes a long way in helping: practice letting down on those shots you can feel are not right. It reenforces the good habits, and reduces the off shots, cause you're just not taking 'em ( at least some of the time).
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That's an interesting idea Joe..the letting down..
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I have been told by a high level coach, Hi Rod, that 99% of all people are committed to the shot as soon as their fingers touch the string. No matter what happens after they start pulling back, they are letting that arrow go.
You need to know what a good shot feels like, and if anything is not right during your shot, let down and start over!
Bisch
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Just came back from a Rod Jenkins clinic. Somebody told me it was going to be the best money I ever spent on archery and he sure was right.
I spent quite a bit of the first day wondering when we were going to start shooting so Rod could correct my mistakes. After a while, I realized he was not going to correct our mistakes - he was going to teach us how to not make any.
I doubt if I will ever get to that point, but I do see how breaking the shot down into specific steps and getting each one right before going to the next one will prevent most of my mistakes.
I taught the kids I was coaching on the skeet field that they had to go through all the mechanics of setting up the shot before calling for the bird. If they tried to skip steps, I refused to throw the bird for them. I heard much the same thing from Rod.
I think the hardest thing for me will be not focusing on the target until I have the shot set up so as not to waste the 3 seconds of intense target focus we are capable of on pre-shot staring.
As Bisch said, if that shot is not right at each point along the set-up, you let the shot down.
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This is probably very redundant to you all, but videoing yourself is a great way to evaluate your shot sequence/form.
Nod your head or otherwise signal the camera when the shot "feels right" and hits near its mark.
Personally, I don't demand X's on every shot, but I expect "kills".
I have found the camera to be a great help. I also EXPECT good form on every shot... not necessarily a "perfect" shot (accuracy).
Shooting the bow can be frustrating at times... but it sure is a lot of fun!!
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Being a ground hunter or still hunter, I need to be aware that not every initial draw up is going to be the same. For me the last four inches of draw needs to be familiar. A certain amount of last instant tweaking is the difference between hitting a very small target or just missing it, but if that last instant adjusting gets too large, it equates to swinging the bow around at full draw. For my best concentration, there cannot be all that much hyper analysis during the shot. The shot begins before I put pressure on the string and ends after the the arrow stops moving. If I make intentional plans to artificially hold the bow back for an extra period of time, I almost always get into an argument with myself in one way or another.
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Being consistent is doing everything the same every time. I use to reload for long range rifle shooting. Trying to get extreme accuracy I got to the point of not only buying the best cases and bullits but weighing each item to the tenth of a grain to match up the components including the powder to the tenth of a grain. If your draw is a tenth of an inch short from your last shot there should be a slight difference where the arrow hits at a given distance. Likewise if you don't have the bow griped the same way each time or your site alignment the same each time, the arrow will not hit in the same place. This is true in perfect conditions such as indoors with great lighting and no wind. In the back yard or in the field there are a whole lot more variables.
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In the back yard or in the field there are a whole lot more variables.
How we handle those variables is the difference between a good hunting shot versus sloppy hunting shot. I struggled with that for years after I decided that my target form and set-up was not the answer for hunting. Wild game can be very difficult to predict and how we meld our shooting style to blend into the accuracy and timing required to make hunting shots is a never ending work in progress. Certain bows can shoot flatter arrows and certain form styles can produce tighter groups, but that is only part of the hunter's answer. Making it all come together when hunting is the next and very large step. Quite often actions and decisions need to be made simultaneously and quickly executed, something that is never required at a target.
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Thanks guys, I'll keep working on it.
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Everyone has their own mental tempo. I know a compound shooter that is a very fluid shotgun shooter, but when he tries to shoot his wheelie bow, he tries to get way too stiff and methodical. As a result he has blown up on a number of easy shots and has hit and lost a number of hit deer. For myself, I need to practice to keep my form and sequence tighter to keep from getting things too loose and haphazard. Others that have a long sequence need work at getting things fluid enough to be able to use their form effectively in more diverse situations. Wild animals and foam targets have very different behaviorisms.
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I always fare better when hunting.... I know it is a concentration thing. All I can say is when a buck is approaching I reach a level of single focus I seldom have on the target range. I wish I could force it but thus far it just is a "in the moment" thing. There have been times before I ever drew that I knew I was going to make a perfect shot on a deer - then there were times I didn't draw because I knew in advance I wasn't going to make the shot - my mind and focus just weren't there. For me its purely a mental state.
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I think what I was trying to say with "not skipping steps" was not about how long you hold at anchor. I teach defensive shooting for a concealed carry class. Obviously the shot is different from a 50 yard target shot, where any "8" pretty much bumps you out of the running. The principles are the same, though, only compressed in time. If the trigger pull is not straight to the rear, you will miss even at 4 - 5 yards. Look at how many shootings involve a dozen shots fired with one or two hits (if any!).
A consistent release is going to be necessary regardless of how quickly you shoot. The consistent release is only going to come if it is repeated the same way each time. Pluck that string and I'll nail the sapling 2 feet from where I was aiming.
I'm hoping I can get the proper form so "burned in" that it will come automatically (and quickly). That's going to take a lot of blank bale shooting for me, concentrating on perfect form (not style, but form) every time.
Sure have a long way to go. Sure wish I'd started 50 years ago :)
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"One other thing that goes a long way in helping: practice letting down on those shots you can feel are not right. It reenforces the good habits, and reduces the off shots, cause you're just not taking 'em ( at least some of the time)."
This advice is worth paying attention to. Just because you have pulled the string it doesn't mean you have to shoot. You will find that letting down on a shot that isn't quite right is incredibly hard to do at first. You are always telling yourself "I can fix it, I can fix it!!!" No, you can't.
This is one of the first steps to better shot control and is well worth the effort.
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What has really worked for me is:
Establish a definite shot sequence
Begin practice with stance work,draw and let down
Move to bow grip after reviewing stance,draw and let down
Move to draw hand after reviewing stance and bow hand,draw and let down
Continue through whole sequence reviewing each step before executing the next,gradually working in some shots that feel really good
I do 3 reps of each step at 5 yds then start serious aiming with 1 shot at 5/2nd at 10/3rd at 15.
Bad shot.. I don't move back or go get arrow and execute shot better.Seems to be working for me.
3 arrows about my limit of concentration at time.
Good Luck..you'll get there
Mike
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Originally posted by Bisch:
If you ever figure out the answer to your question, you will be a billionaire!!!
Bisch
What Bisch says!!!!!
There's too much to be said for the subconscious mind when it comes to shooting a trad bow. Your head really has to be in it, but at the same time, you can't think about it. "No mind!"
It's part of the magic. Though it can make it frustrating when it comes to trying to master the art of the bow and arrow.
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When my rhythm gets too fast like today. I talk to myself, I talk slower. I slowly repeat, out loud, while I shoot. Swing, draw, anchor, deep, release, follow through. I do this until the pace becomes second nature. When I had TP and could not establish anchor. I did the same by not shooting and going through the sequence by first closing both eyes then each eye separately, then with both eyes open. If I am going to release, the entire sequence is done with the intention of hitting what I am looking at and releasing. Getting a brain full of busy cross signals does not lead to good shooting for me. Clear deliberate intentions do.
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I'm not a good shot... yet. But I find that if I'm in "the zone" when shooting, my arrows seems to find their mark. I totally agree on letting down if things feel off. Those shots are gonna miss for sure, and every miss will affect your next shot. At least that's how it is with me.
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up
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Understanding your shot sequence and knowing it inside and out and front to back is paramount to consistent shooting.
If you really think about it, the only moment that truly matters in shooting a bow is the millisecond your muscles relax in your draw hand and the limbs spring back to rest. Everything else leading up to that fateful moment just helps you more consistently execute that moment.
An archer that is in full control of their bow, their mental game, and physical form can draw the bow string on a different path to anchor (straight line, outside, etc) can hold at anchor for 2 seconds, 5 seconds, or 20 seconds - and still expand through the shot and execute a good arrow. How we get to that last millisecond is irrelevant, as long as at that millisecond everything is consistent and the same.
This is obviously easier said than done however. Blank bailing, Let down drills, dedicated form work are the vehicles that will get an archer to that skill level.
Trying new things / equipment / and being fearless to shake things up with what you're comfortable with are also great attributes to getting to the next level.
Never settle for "accurate enough". Keep driving and have fun. Gotta enjoy the process.
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This is really interesting to read. . .
I rode the wave of traditional archery which was around in Michigan in the 50s/60s- it waned some in the 70s with the intro of the compound. THEN there was a rapidly growing return of trad in the early 80s. We were influenced by the Wensels, John Schulz, Fred Asbell, Byron Ferguson, Ron Laclair, Ken Beck. . and a few others.
What I find interesting as I really do not recall much trad talk in the terms used throughout this thread (shot sequence, etc etc). The thought of trad/instinctive was simplicity for hunting. It was all fluid, like shooting a basketball. We watched Ron LaClair shoot skoal cans out of the air, shoot with his feet, and determine his brace height with his fist and thumb (no bow square technicality there!) I recall an article Barry Wensel (maybe Gene??) wrote how it was easier to hunt shooting trad/instinctive. Many of us became convinced and returned to our trad roots. Like others- I DID NOT make the switch back for the challenge!! I switched because I wanted bowhunting to be easier!
Just for the fun. . .Some of you newer trad guys go watch (and LISTEN) to John Schulz's "Hitting em like Howard Hill" on youtube. Notice his personal philosophy. Really listen. That was representative of the key voices many of us were reading and hearing.
I realize there are many guys who like all the technical aspects to shooting, tuning, and equipment. I also realize that most of the guys who learned like me never became big time archery tournament champions. But I do wonder if newer trad guys realize that MANY of us just learned a few basic things/form issues- and for the most part we just went and "played ball." Few of us became great tournament archers- but we sure harvested A LOT of game at 18yds and less. It was fun and we got better as we enjoyed the simplicity of a stick and string.
Just some reflections this evening. Worth probably 2C :)
Dan in KS
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Paven makes some damn good points about the difference between shooting groups in the back yard and applying your skill to hunting situations.....
That's where i think 3D shoots are very good for a guy.... I'm not talking competition and keeping score so much as actually putting yourself in different shooting positions and dealing with branches and shooting through windows at unmarked yardages..... the biggest thing is making that 1st shot count......
Even practicing at home or where ever you have to shoot. practice one shot at a time. Forget groups... either shoot one arrow & go pull it and shoot the next from a different angle or distance, or use multiple targets.... You'll improve your overall skill level much more shooting one arrow at a time.
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Shooting at the same backyard target over and over can lead to a stale concentration level. I have been a victim of that. Needing to make that first arrow count is a completely different mental state than mindlessly dumping a quiver load of arrows into a target that you cannot miss. My form needs to function cleanly when I am pumped and alert, anything less and I can have terribly sloppy form. I have also found that if I take lots of practice shots at 25 yards from varied angles and positions, doing the same from 35 yards is not as traumatic. I have less than a 27" draw with my longbows so I will never have a really fast arrow, but when the majority of my shots are shot under 20 yards, those 35 yard shots seem like a mile and the lob of my arrows is way more than I like.