Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Sweetwater on August 17, 2015, 11:52:00 AM
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I've looked around the forum and viewed most of the sponsors' websites. I'm in trouble, I want it all. Reality and Missus Sweet' are reminding me I have to try to be responsible as I develop this new-to-me skill. I have also read the file that the webmaster recommended and it was very helpful.
As I've shopped the local proshop I thought I had the new bow issue beaten. A little bit about me: I'm in my forties (a puppy!), reasonably fit, and I can easily shoot my 52# compound bow with good accuracy and precision. I believe my draw is 28" on my compounds. I realize that doesn't necessarily translate to traditional archery.
So, I looked very closely at 3 recurves:
1. Ragim Brown Bear, 58", 40# @28. $270
2. Bear Archery Kodiak Magnum, 54", 45# @28. $470
3. Bear Archery Super Kodiak, 60", 50# @28. $680
Now, I'd prefer to spend the least amount, but the Ragim doesn't scream quality unless I missed something. I am also concerned about its draw weight as it is the absolute minimum in NC (40#). The SK is very pretty and feels good when I handle it in the shop, but it is $$$! I'd be hard pressed to buy other gear at that price. I could actually start looking at true customs at $700+ (the addiction is setting in).
Just like Goldilocks and the Three Bears, the Kodiak Magnum seems to be just right. Feels good in the hand, it is attractive to me, the draw weight is enough for the law and not too much for my strength and conditioning at 45#. The price is fine and I almost think the shop would discount it or add some coaching sessions as an incentive...at the very least I will have an expert on hand to select arrows and set up the bow.
Is there any reason a traditional archery rookie should not proceed with the Bear Kodiak Magnum?
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The Kodiak Magnum is 52",not 54".Short bows like that can magnify form errors.Some can handle them but I'd recommend starting with something in the 58-60" range.Consider ordering a bow in your chosen poundage.
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My advise is to try as many bows as you can before you buy. For your first trad bow I would not get a 52" to 54". Not that the Magnum is not a good bow it is just a little harder to shoot accurately for a beginner in most cases. If your draw is 28" I think that you would be more comfortable with a 58" or even 60". The truth is nobody can tell you what you will like best and that is why I say try to shoot as many bows as possible. If you like the Bear bows there are many vintage bows that are very servicable on the market you can get for $200 or less.
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Good advice already I would go the vintage rout find a solid Kodiak Hunter or Grizzly for around 200 bucks. Then get well matched arrows n have at it! No it wont be the last bow the addiction will get worse.
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If you're only shooting 52# with a compound, you're going to be overbowed with a 45# short recurve. Short bows are going to be difficult to learn on. A Samick Sage with 25-30lb limbs is a good bow to start, it will allow you to work on nailing down proper form without fighting draw weight. You can pick up another set of limbs to hunt with down the road.
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I would suggest you go with the cheapest decent bow you can find and learn to shoot properly, that will go a long way to ensure you enjoy the experience, because once you know how to shoot properly you can just about shoot any bow well. Too many and including myself have gone through so many many bows, we all might as well vote for Trump because of the money invested. Listen to your wife, spend money wisely or you will end up buying every bow that you think will make you a better shot and they won't.
A mildly used bow that is low in weight, mid 30's will give you something solid to work with, without worring if you put some dings in it.
I wish someone had given me this advise, I'd probablt be driving a better car than what I drive now.
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Great advice gang, and thanks for every single bit of it. I will take some time and continue looking at used bows in the 60" range.
I shoot the compound at 52# simply because it is set up and tuned that way and it is light! When drawing the 45# and 50# in the proshop they feel smooth and easy to manipulate, but I certainly respect the thought that my form would/could crumble with lots of practice due to fatigue of unused muscles. I can only guess, but I think I figured out that shooting dozens of arrows a day may not be good practice.
My other search will be for shoots where I might have a chance to test drive some bows. The hunt for the right bow is proving to be fun and interesting and educational!
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...and I guess a cheap 25# draw weight recurve would never be a bad idea. The kids might even get to use it. I am lucky to be patient and finally old enough to control myself.
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My thoughts would be: never buy a bow until you shoot it. You buy it /you own it.
Loads of good deals out there on good used bows. I hit the yard sales and always ask for, bow and arrows, not archery equipment. Bows and arrows are easier to understand sometimes to folks. Just this weekend I asked that question and the woman went into the house and came out with a really nice Ben Pearson, 40# hunting bow. Wanted $5.00 but I gave her $20.00 instead. I would have given here more but that is all I had left.
I didn't follow my own advise about shooting the bow but then I didn't need another bow and I pass them on after I make a new string and rest.
Check craigslist for bows and put a request for a recurve/longbow on craigslist.
Lighter bows are good to learn on and can be passed on to your wife or kids.
Lots of good advise in the above posts.
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If your budget is limited, I suggest looking for a good used bow and once you learn how to shoot it and are comfortable with the draw weight you can invest in another bow with a few more pounds. For someone who is new I would suggest your first traditional bow be about 40-45 pounds in draw weight as it is very important to develop good shooting form and habits from the very start. Consider joining Carolina Traditional Archers. They have active members all across the Carolinas and sponsor quite a few shoots each summer. Most people would be glad to let you try their bow so you can see what you like.
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Get a sage with 35 and 45 lb limds then work up
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Sage or Journey.
Sage good for normal 27" to 29"
Journey will go further.
They both have great grips(medium) but sorry strings.
The KMag has deeper grip and be more like your compound.
Buy extra limbs like Jamesh76 states as needed.
Samick good bow for the $$
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Get your draw length checked I shot 28" draw with my compound also but I was using a release. Now with my LB using the corner of my mouth I am down to 25.5.
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Stack, that's not something I even considered! I will visit the pro shop again this week or next and check the draw length and then see if they deal with and can order the Sage with lighter limbs. I'm so green, I need to keep my business local with someone who can offer help and set the bow up, and then I need to visit some shoots.
I also visited the Carolina Traditional Archers page (THX JohnV!) and see that they have several Fall shoots in the region.
Now, if your draw length goes from 28 to 25.5" on a 40@28 recurve, then is it now an illegal to hunt with that bow as your poundage at anchor is now less than 40# (NC minimum is 40 on non-compound)? That may also explain why the Bear SK 50# @28 felt so comfortable to me...
That's probably not a forum question but one for the NC Wildlife Commission.
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from an old timer watch out for custom bow makers after sending over $800 on TD bow my bow pretty but why put Allen bolts on the bow that are just steel and rust --- why not brass or a good grade SS steel beware of this when buying a bow..
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I'll ditto the stay out of the short bow thing too! Did you check out www.rmsgear.com (http://www.rmsgear.com) when you were looking at sponsors sites, they have a good selection of new and used bows. Knowing what i know now, I personally would buy a Samick Sage or Journey if I was just starting out like you. Order a Fast Flight Flemish string when you order the bow and toss the string that comes with the bow. That will leave you some coin to get a stringer (mandatory in my books), a tab, an arm guard and arrows and tab(E.W. Bateman). Then save your money, work some overtime and sell your compound to buy a custom bow later!
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old goat 2
tell this old guy a good tab to buy now so many out there or a good glove with finger stalls
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Sweetwater,
These guys have just saved you a $$$TON of money and time. Now hear me out...use just $30 of that $$$TON and shoot ole Terry (TradGang site founder) a check to become a "Contributing Member".
This small annual fee helps pay for all the hardware and maintenance to operate this awesome website. You'll get so much from this site!! It's better than any magazine subscription, and packed full of great advice, like you just received.
PLUS, you get access to all the used bows (and other required accessories) at a bargain to a fair price, from good, honest folks in the TradGang Classifieds.
Welcome to the Gang.
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I'm in the camp recommending a Samick Journey. It is a $140 takedown bow, 64" amo. Very smooth drawing. The Samick Sage is the "same bow" (exact same riser in fact), just 1" shorter limbs on each end, making a 62" amo bow.
I have a Journey. 35 lbs limbs. I draw 29+ inches. Replacement limbs are only $75 new. The riser is ready to accept a quiver, and elevated rest (ie NAP) if you'd like-or you can shoot off the shelf.
You can get a lower weight set of limbs (30 or 35 lbs), and then "something more (40 or 45 lbs,,,, up to 55-60 lbs).
The factory string is stretchy dacron. You can put a Bearpaw fast flight D97 string on it for ~ $14.
I use a Bateman 3-under cordovan tab.
That's a lot of performance, for not a lot of money. It is an inexpensive, not "cheap", great shooting recurve bow.
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Definitely check out the used bows on here and at rmsgear.com. You said you liked the Super Kodiak. Well there's a 45# one at rmsgear for $350. Also several other Bear models, and the one I'd go with, a 45# Ben Pearson Hunter for $175. I have one that's 42# and it's a great shooting little bow, and they have absolutely beautiful zebra wood risers. I shot 29" back when I shot compound and shoot around 27" with trad, and the little Ben Pearson doesn't stack at all for me. Shame you aren't closer or I'd let you try mine and see how you liked it. Enjoy the addiction.
Matt
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I am new to trad this season as well. I went with the save with 45 pound limbs. It's a decent bow for the price and seems to be very forgiving for a beginner. I think it's wise to go with a cheaper bow to learn and save the extra cash for something nice once your skill and knowledge progresses
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I bought a Sage to see what all the hoopla was about them, liked the grip so well that I built 2 TD longbows with the same feel. Bro and I shoot them better than anything I've built to date.
Sorry, sold it yesterday to a young man wanting to try a recurve. He shot it while we shot a round of 3D and was waiting to pay for it when we came out. :)
Oh, order a decent string to use instead of the rope that comes with em.... :)
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Originally posted by bowheadhunter:
old goat 2
tell this old guy a good tab to buy now so many out there or a good glove with finger stalls
I have a prototype from highplains AKA Tommy Clum at rmsgear and man it's nice! E.W. Bateman cordovan is the next best thing, if you have the opportunity, search through the entire stock of tabs to find the thickest one you can! I won't use a glove, can't wear them with gloves in cold weather and plus a shooting glove makes it difficult to pick your nose without taking it off!
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If u want trad longbow the eaglewing frontier a nice one no stringer needed in the field a nice fast bow but very noise free I had 300 caribou around me just watch their brother die tbey never heard the bow they thought he just layed down to sleep!I never had that happen before!
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thank u old goat2 will check it out,,
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I got into archery about 3 years ago, and in that time, I've spent well over $1000 on two bows that I either don't shoot or no longer own.
As others have said… go with the Sage until you figure out what really works best for you. When I started out, I convinced myself that I should buy a longbow just because I liked the way they looked… well, two longbows later, I realized that I liked shooting recurves better. :dunno:
I just bought a Sage for a friend of mine and I was really impressed with the grip and the way it shoots.
good luck!
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Another vote for the Samick Journey. I also advise tossing the rope for a string that comes with it--a good string makes a night and day difference with that bow.
Once you shoot for a while and get a feel for it, then you will have a much better idea of what you like and don't like in a bow, what draw weight you prefer, etc.
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can I have a list of string makers who are sponsors here that could make a good string looking more for a string that (reduces noise) on my bows not a speed string ,,,less noise longer limb life,,
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I think most of us here have good reviews, and most if not all of us stand behind our product.
We all have our preferances. My favorite material is BCY-X, 18-20 strands, for a moderate (not tiny, not fat) diameter string. On my bows (including a Samick Journey) it's quiet, consistent, and stable.
I haven't seen any reports to confirm or deny a particular string material making a bow last longer.
In my personal experience, I've broken a lot more bows while they had a Dacron string on them than any other, but I don't blame the string material.
I have one bow that I bought new a good 15 or more years ago that's never had a Dacron string on it and it's still going strong--draw weight hasn't changed, no sign of wear from the string. It's been used and abused--had it refinished twice--but no string damage.
The Journey has had a BCY-X string on it for going on two years, been shot a lot. I draw around 31" and am shooting arrows that weigh less than 9 gpp. So far, so good--no signs of wear or damage from the string. Taking it bowfishing for stingray next month.
Chad
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Welcome, Sweetwater! Lot's of Carolina archers on this board and some excellent hunters and shooters in the mix. I'm just here for the free food.
You've gotten some great advice but let me add a few more cents worth. 1) Your draw will lengthen as you practice and develop your back muscles. Drawing a trad bow uses a whole new set of muscles. As your draw lengthens , it will impact the tune of your arrows as 1 additional inch of draw can make a huge difference in how your arrows fly. 2) Arrow quality and match are more important than bow quality, cost or style. 3) take advantage of all the TG forums, including the Shooters Form forum, as a resource to develop proper form, pick up ideas, ask questions. 4) Find trad archery shooting buddies. There are few better ways to spend a Saturday morning than wandering the woods with a buddy and a handful of arrows looking for stumps and clumps to shoot from every conceivable angle and distance.
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LBR what maker nock fits best 18-20 strands BCY-X and serving material IS BEST,,I ALWAYS seem to have a nock to loose on newer strings made today. We are Haven Alum and wood arrows made my native friends will not eat any game killed with carbon arrows ""carbon"" is bad medicine up here in Arctic cold destroys carbon also they snap on me at 50 below hope my new carbon limb bows hold up this winter will let everyone know..
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Man, I can't believe the number of great advice posts from you guys! After reading thru these today I will commit to sending Terry $30 and I think it might be smart to visit shoots before I even buy a Sammick (Sage and Journey seem to have equal amount of fans).
One thing is obvious, I won't be hunting this season unless it is closer to closing day, there's just too much to learn about traditional archery and it sounds like arrow tuning will be an active pursuit as I develop my skills. It is very encouraging to know lots of Carolina Guys are around. I'm in the suburbs right on the NC/SC state line and and I've struggled on NC Game Lands in the past. I might add an SC license to my NC license next season just to broaden my chances and try some hogs south of the border.
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Any good string maker should be able to serve the string with the serving that gives you a proper nock fit. Just need to know what type nock you are using on your arrows or the throat diameter.
For serving materials, I like Halo and 62XS. I haven't used it enough personally to endorse it, but Power Grip has been getting very good reviews also.
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OK I GET SOME alum arrows made by someone and alum arrows if I can find someone who to do both alum and wood and use the same type nock.
Now I need to good longbow stringer for a Border Harrier one piece its a very powerful longbow she in need for good stronger stringer that easy to use in the field..
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Mangonboat,
PM rec'd and replied.
Support from this forum rocks! I moving down to the form section now to learn some more.
:clapper:
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Go with the Journey over the Sage. Smoother draw. Very underated bow. The Sage can stack over 28", and as you progress, your draw length will increase a bit. You can start with the 64" Journey, and still have "growth" room in it as you advance. I've shot both the Sage and Journey. I can feel the stacking on the Sage at ~ 29". The Journey is smooth as far as I can pull.
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Originally posted by bowheadhunter:
can I have a list of string makers who are sponsors here that could make a good string looking more for a string that (reduces noise) on my bows not a speed string ,,,less noise longer limb life,,
The guys at rmsgear make as good of string as anybody and better than a lot!
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ok on msgear thanks
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I also second the Samick bows. I bought a Samick Journey recently to bowfish with and its a good bow for the money.
WHATEVER you do, don't start with too heavy limbs. Start light, develop good form, and then you can buy heavier limbs.
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Lots of good advice here...several millenia of combined experience.
You might also want to give Big Jim a call. He has a lot of used bows in stock.
When I started out, I had hunted and shot a lot of 3D with a compound, so I was no stranger to how an arrow flies. I dove in head first and bought a 52# Black Widow. Spent a lot of money on my first bow, but I had shot a few other bows and liked the BW the most.
Looking back, I don't think I'd change a thing, but that's MY situation. I figured that if I bought a cheaper or used bow, I'd end up shooting something different after I learned to shoot well.
I kept my compound for a few years in case it took too long to get good enough to hunt with. That's one of the reasons why I didn't buy something with lower poundage. I figured if I was going to learn, I wanted to start with the bow that I was going to hunt with. I received the bow in the spring and practiced enough to be able to hunt with it that same fall.
I still have my first bow...got it 10 years ago and finally got around to buying my second trad bow...a Big Jim Buffalo. I always thought longbows were cool, and I wanted to try something different. I've shot a few different styles of longbow and liked Jim's the best.
I guess this is the longest way to say: Try before you buy!
You don't have to go low or high on the weight or go cheap or used or expensive to enjoy this sport.
Do your research, pull the trigger, and PRACTICE!
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