Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: VA Elite on September 18, 2015, 11:17:00 AM
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Being around this group and at shoots I see that most seasoned veterans are using longbows a lot. I know there are still many recurvers, but it just seems long there are more longbow shooters. If this is the case, is there a reason why?
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I don't know for the rest but for myself I prefer a longbow because I like the light weight , the wand like feel and the fact that I don't need a stringer
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man I thought my recurve was light...I do know they are more quiet. are just a smoother bow to shoot?
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X2 Brian
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X3 on Balentine's comment. Magic Wands.
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Light, quiet, fun and simply sleek. Though my Hoyt buffalo recurve is more efficent, I still shoot my bamabows tribute and hunter 95% of the time.
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Every recurve I owned ended up having problems. Limbs twisted, cracked etc. i took care of them well. I like the durability of a simple longbow. Thats mainly why I am a longbow only guy now.
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Two main reasons for me.
#1 - Longbows go "thud", recurves go "TWANG"! I like the thud of a longbow much better!
#2 - No stringer needed for my longbow. I hate stringers, and can't keep up with them very well!
Bisch
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I often wonder about this as well. I too am newish to this whole archery thing and have never even had a longbow in my hands. I do however shoot what I think is a very 'longbow-y' recurve, a 64inch Toelke super static with a classic grip.
Now when I pick up my old bear recurve it feels too 'chunky' in my hands...
I think my next will be a mild to medium R/D long bow
:archer:
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I think they look better hanging next to me in a tree. I think they look better laying on a dead critter to. I cant find enough performance difference to justify that one way or another, so it must be all about the looks for me.
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so I always here the revurve has more power or efficiency and are faster etc... I don't know. I do know that my recurves are louder than any longbow i have heard. As far as accuracy goes, I never shot a longbow so i wouldn't that either. I can say that I hate, I mean I cringe every time I have to use my stringer!
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I think you are looking for a reason to get a longbow... :D :D
Seriously tho, D/R longbows don't give up much to the recurves in performance anymore.
Plus all the other reasons mentioned above.
So go ahead and getcha one! :archer2:
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I made the switch this season to an HHA Wesley Special because I just loved the simple look. Then I shot it, and the more I shoot it the more I love it. The simple thud, light weight, no stringer, seems to shoot where I look with less effort, and again I just love the simple D shape look. I looked at HHA's for years and have always been drawn to them, and finally this year found one at the perfect weight and length.
Nothing at all wrong with recurves. I honestly still love mine and I'm torn about leaving it at home because they are such great bows. I made the commitment to at least give a full hunting season to the longbow.
Do you have one in mind you'd like to try?
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I was wondering about the difference also. I have only shot recurves but the Toelke Pika has peaked my interest. As a recent wheel bow convert I am just trying to get up to speed on all the different ins and outs of traditional archery.
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I don't have one in mind, but I would like to shoot one for a bit to see if I would enjoy as much as I have the recurve.
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I like em all. I'll default to a hybrid or longbow but I love recurves too. As long as it is reasonably quiet. To me the silky smooth draw of a well designed recurve limb is hard to beat.
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Also remember, there's a big difference between a modern R/D longbow and a Hill style. There's really three classes of laminated trad bows IMO instead of two.
As for power/efficiency, I read one time where a guy did a testing that. He used one recurve and one longbow, so I'm not sure how well it applies across the board, but it was interesting nonetheless. He used a recurve and longbow, not sure the model/design, of the same draw weight and chronoed them with a variety of arrow weights. With the lighter arrows, the recurve was quite a bit faster, but as he increased arrow weight, the gap narrowed. When he got up around 15 gpp or so, I believe the longbow actually caught up and maybe even passed the recurve. Like I said, I don't know how scientific the test was, but it seemed to indicate that it's not so much that recurves are faster, but that different designs need different arrow weights to maximize efficiency.
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They grow on you. They are just more what I have in mind when I think archery.
ChuckC
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I want to shoot one!
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Longbows and wood arrows are just way cool. I like shooting recurves too and employ both types in my hunting (especially vintage Bear recurves), but longbows are ultimately where my heart is.
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Im going to have to shoot one
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There are so many designs for 'longbows' today that the term no longer has much meaning as a good descriptor.
It seems contradictory to call a heavy recurve- risered bow a longbow just because the string doesn't touch the limb when the bow is strung, yet many do. And then there are the hybrid bows...light risers sculpted to mimic the locator grip style of recurves, with reflex/deflex limbs (some mild, some severe) built to mimic the castability of a recurve...also usually called longbows.
You have ASL style (Hill style) longbows, English style longbows, primitive style and myriads of 'stuff' in between. They're all called longbows, I guess mostly to spare us the inconvenience of accurately defining their differences. And just maybe because they let us cheat (a little or alot) when bragging about shooting prowess with our 'longbows', as if there's no differences or limitations at all in how each substyle within the style shoots and physically performs.
So I guess the reason why folks shoot them would be as varied as the subdesigns. I think old-school thinkers more often lean towards the English style/ASL style bows. The learning curve to reach the same skill level is generally longer/harder with them, and some never do achieve their desired level or tire of the added challenges of trying to get there. That's ok. But some tend to blame the bow for their shooting difficulties or discomforts, as if the style itself is inferior and the cause of their inabilities/disdain, lol.
I think those who warm up to old school longbow styles also tend to lean more towards old school arrows...usually wood. Same reason...for more nostalgia and challenge. And probably in good part because the urge to shoot competitively isn't that important to them.
There's no telling why anyone loves or hates the bows they try. All I know is that when I see someone shooting old style longbows and arrows BECAUSE of the added challenges rather than in spite of them, I tend to tip my hat.
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Was going to add to this, then read TSP post. Very well said Sir. ..OE
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Sounds like you want us to talk you into getting one, lol. Go for it! Or at least get ahold of one to shoot for awhile. Like TSP said, though, there are really several subdesigns under the designation "Longbow" so if you don't like shooting hybrid, try a hill, or visa versa.
For me, it's what I started with but mostly; lighter, quieter, and I don't much care for the really high wrist grip of most recurves. Mostly though, I just really love how light in the hand a one piece longbow is.
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I shoot and enjoy many styles of bows, but hunt with RD longbows most of the time now. I like the way they draw better and the limbs are much more bullet proof.
I agree that the Hill style bows are more difficult to shoot since I struggle with a grip that isn't more recurve like, but I can get to a point of accuracy if I shoot them enough. My problem is the "thump". I played a lot athletics in my early days, especially baseball at a fairly high level for a lot of years. My right elbow (bow arm) had to be fixed once and I took cortisone shots in my shoulders for a long time. The ortho has told me I will probably need a shoulder replacement and maybe an elbow too on that side. I have not shot them all, but most Hill style bows rattle those two joints to the point I am out of commission in short order. The thump is just too much for me.
D.P.
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I wanted to shoot one for all the reasons mentioned, and I tried quite a few. But when it was all said and done, I just shot the recurve better. I do like the idea of not needing a stringer, but I always used one to string my nows, no matter what style.
Oddly enough the only trouble I had with a traditional bow was a shorter longbow.
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Here's old school longbow to me:
Steve Turay Northern Mist ASL, Art Vincent back quiver and either 1960's Microflite fiberglass arrows or Paul Jalon/Elite Arrows Autumn Legend custom cedar shaft wood arrows built for Ron LaClair's archery shop.
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/20150727_184448_zps5euh8hyw.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/20150727_184448_zps5euh8hyw.jpg.html) //
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/P6290630_zpsyesv1hnl.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/P6290630_zpsyesv1hnl.jpg.html)
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/20150624_130548_zpsnbjphpfl.jpg) (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/20150624_130548_zpsnbjphpfl.jpg.html)
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Originally posted by TSP:
There are so many designs for 'longbows' today that the term no longer has much meaning as a good descriptor.
It seems contradictory to call a heavy recurve- risered bow a longbow just because the string doesn't touch the limb when the bow is strung, yet many do. And then there are the hybrid bows...light risers sculpted to mimic the locator grip style of recurves, with reflex/deflex limbs (some mild, some severe) built to mimic the castability of a recurve...also usually called longbows.
You have ASL style (Hill style) longbows, English style longbows, primitive style and myriads of 'stuff' in between. They're all called longbows, I guess mostly to spare us the inconvenience of accurately defining their differences. And just maybe because they let us cheat (a little or alot) when bragging about shooting prowess with our 'longbows', as if there's no differences or limitations at all in how each substyle within the style shoots and physically performs.
So I guess the reason why folks shoot them would be as varied as the subdesigns. I think old-school thinkers more often lean towards the English style/ASL style bows. The learning curve to reach the same skill level is generally longer/harder with them, and some never do achieve their desired level or tire of the added challenges of trying to get there. That's ok. But some tend to blame the bow for their shooting difficulties or discomforts, as if the style itself is inferior and the cause of their inabilities/disdain, lol.
I think those who warm up to old school longbow styles also tend to lean more towards old school arrows...usually wood. Same reason...for more nostalgia and challenge. And probably in good part because the urge to shoot competitively isn't that important to them.
There's no telling why anyone loves or hates the bows they try. All I know is that when I see someone shooting old style longbows and arrows BECAUSE of the added challenges rather than in spite of them, I tend to tip my hat.
Here here! It's a pretty muddled longbow world we live in for sure, but it's your journey and you have the freedom to choose from a bunch of novel if not bastardized concepts. It matters not.
The same nuances exist in all outdoor sports we may dabble in. All I can say about it is a quote once shared with me..."The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about". So make your own trail and don't look back.
Best.
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It's just another fad! Been going on for 10,000 years.
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I switched to shooting longbows 4 or 5 years ago, I had shot recurves for about 16 years before that, when I made the switch from my compound. For me it was just wanting to try out something new. I tried a couple of the short "longbows", I traded for a Kanati from someone here on tradgang, but couldn't get the consistency I thought I should. (mostly me, the bow was an awesome shooter). I tried a Hill Country and had the same results. I ended up with a Liberty Rouge from Alan Boise in a trade and shot it great, I ended up selling that one and had a Northern Mist Baraga made for me, I love that bow quick and quiet. Last year I bought a Northern Mist Whisper that has a reverse grip and shoot that bow as well as any of my recurves, it's quickly becoming my favorite. So short story long for me it's just the excitement of something new and challenging. If you do try one out be careful because it can be addicting...I'm planning my third one in my head right now, just don't tell my wife.
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Ray, Wow! Pretty bow, pretty arrows, pretty quiver and arrows. No comment on your picture... Just a nice setup. Makes you want to walk in the woods....
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Originally posted by fmscan:
Ray, Wow! Pretty bow, pretty arrows, pretty quiver and arrows. No comment on your picture... Just a nice setup. Makes you want to walk in the woods....
I love walking in the woods and stump shooting. Did it a lot in the 80's with my Howard Hill bows and judo points.
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They'll probably put a Hill bow in my casket with me. An ASL with wood arrows and a back quiver is (to me) the peak of what I've always been after. R/D longbows are great too, I just prefer the simplicity, lightweight, and grips of ASLs. I have no idea what hand shock is, but I will say this about ASLs - for me, it took a total commitment to be consistent. I couldn't/didn't bounce back and forth between these and recurves or R/D's. I went all in. Once I accepted what the bow was wanting from me, the puzzle pieces fell into place. Some folks bounce back and forth with no problem. Others either have to or simply choose to commit. The learning curve can be sharp, and humbling. Many draw lengths shorten up, stance crowds up a tad, but the simplicity is addictive! Good luck!
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I just think they are more fun to shoot.
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On the other hand,
there are long recurves and short recurves and really heavy handled recurves and rather mini handled recurves,
some have nice neat curves, others have long accentuated ( almost siyah sp?) curves. Some have short limbs compared to their riser, some have short risers, compared to their limbs.
Some are very reflexed, some are deflexed, some a little of both and some are more straight than others.
Some are green, some are blue some are black. . . but we call them all recurves and don't feel bad about it.
ChuckC
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I have a recurve I love and a longbow I love. I lean more toward the longbow and shoot it almost exclusively now. I'll never get rid of the recurve though....
The longbows, in my opinion, are just easier to deal with from silencing to stringing.
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Love my curves but my new stik is hard to put down...smoother and just as fast
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I've owned nothing but recurves (with the exception of home made tree limb longbows as a kid) simply because used recurves at reasonable prices are plentiful.
The owners son of a local archery shop let me shoot his 45 lb Martin Savannah about 2 months ago and I've been looking for a good deal on a used one since. I immediately noticed how much smoother it was than the recurves I'm used to shooting, and how it felt lighter than 45 lbs in comparison. I found a used Savannah Stealth and it should be here next friday.
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I've owned 250+ recurves and longbows over the past 15 years. It didn't matter what kind of bow it was, I always used a bowstringer to string and unstring the bow. Now the I've retired, I've owned one recurve for over 2 years now. It is as quiet as any of the longbows I ever owned and it has a low, recurve grip. I love it. The Morrison Cheyenne with Max 1 limbs is hard to beat, IMHO! :)
Bill
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I like the draw force curve of a r/d longbow more than that of a extreme hybrid or a recurve. I like the way they look. It is unlikely to twist a limb and I don't have to keep track of a stringer. I think they are easier to tune, quieter, and are more forgiving of errors that I can be very good at making. I've owned and shot some nice recurves, but my accuracy in the field has not been the same as with a bent (fiberglass-laminate) stick.
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Originally posted by snakebit40:
[QB] I made the switch this season to an HHA Wesley Special because I just loved the simple look. Then I shot it, and the more I shoot it the more I love it. The simple thud, light weight, no stringer, seems to shoot where I look with less effort, and again I just love the simple D shape look. I looked at HHA's for years and have always been drawn to them, and finally this year found one at the perfect weight and length.
X2, well said!
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No idea. The recurve holds 100% of the attraction of archery for me.
It is 90% aesthetics too me, I love the look and feel of recurves.
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To me, Recurves and Longbows are the same as far as shooting. Of course there are some i shoot better than others but for me, the last 2 years I have hunted deer with the longbow because I can stick the tip in my boot and it holds the bow perfectly for me. (thanks for the tip Kenny M.)
I can do this with my recurve also but it is uncomfortable on my ankle. That's not to say I will not hunt with a recurve again, I'll just have a different way of holding/hanging it.
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Charlie, sew a small "pocket" onto your favorite hunting pants, inside one leg, maybe knee high. Place the bow tip in there. Fuddle around a bit to see which leg is most comfy for you.
Hint, if you use a recurve, sew the pocket offset so the tip goes in and out easier, for longbows just sew it upright and it will be fine.
Keep flinging them arrows
ChuckC
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I like longbows too, for all the reasons stated.
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Well to be honest what most guys call a "longbow" is a hybrid or a recurve riser with straighter limbs than "recurved" limbs. A 56" pistol grip bow with semi straight limbs isn't a longbow. Not that names matter anyways. I think guys just like to say they shoot a "longbow". Sounds cooler.
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I'm certainly not the authority on such matters, but in an old copy of Bowhunting Digest from the 70's that I have squirreled away somewhere it talked about the difference in the two. The author defined a longbow as being one that the string does not contact the belly of the bow when strung, and that's been the definition I've used since.
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The early definition of a longbow that C in C refers to is still being used today in many circles, but of course bow limb design efficiencies, materials and performance capabilities have changed significantly since the the old days.
Most any moderate to severe R/D 'longbow' limb can now be made to fit that 'string doesn't touch the limb when the bow is strung' definition and will still 'look' like an old-style longbow. But are they really the same in how they perform? Hardly. Add to the mix the modern carbon/ composite arrows (morphed from early arrow technology developed to take advantage of the compound bow's increased efficiency) and you have a completely different playing field for what once was a reasonably simple 'longbow' concept.
We haven't recognized the scope of the change and we haven't developed terminology that fairly reflects the equipment and performance advances. That is a disservice to the 'idea' of what a longbow is because it muddles the identity of what longbows started out as.
I suppose the world will keep turning if 'longbow' means pretty much anything we wish to think of it as. It's not like we won't survive our inclinations to manipulate the checker board. It's just that ignoring 50+ years of technological changes while constantly insisting that it's 'all the same' doesn't pass the straight face test by any measure.
The longbow world is a jumble of garden produce all waiting for us to name them each something other than 'vegetable'. Lettuce begin. :)
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Yeah, what Tony said :confused: Anyway if you can bolt two limbs to a riser, it's not a longbow. If it's not straight limbed, it's not a longbow. Not that it matters. Like I said some guys just feel better when then say they shoot a longbow. Validation of some sort.
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I just have a bow... :D :archer2:
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Originally posted by killinstuff:
Yeah, what Tony said :confused: Anyway if you can bolt two limbs to a riser, it's not a longbow. If it's not straight limbed, it's not a longbow. Not that it matters. Like I said some guys just feel better when then say they shoot a longbow. Validation of some sort.
I totally disagree! I bolt both my limbs to my riser, and it is the sweetest shooting longbow I have ever held!!!
Bisch
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I get all the arguments against calling a modern R/D bow a longbow, and I agree that based on design, there are really quite a few different categories of bows and not just a simple division of recurve and longbow. But is it really any different than calling a glass laminated Hill style bow a longbow when it's so much more advanced than the old English yew longbows? Is a 2015 F150 not really a truck because it's so different from the trucks from back in the 1920s? It seems that a lot of guys get all upset because somebody with a bow that's not as "pure" or not as "traditional" as theirs wants to call it by the same name. Why do we get caught up in this argument about who's more traditional, or what gear even counts as traditional for that matter. A bow is a tool, no matter what it looks like. It can only do what a man or woman chooses to do with it. Essentially, archery is what we do. A bow and arrow is what we do it with. A person's attitude, character, and dedication to his craft/sport/etc does a lot more to make him a "traditional" archer than the direction his limb tips point. JMO. And to be open and honest, I shoot both recurves and an R/D longbow. I would like to eventually get a Hill style and a self bow, and maybe eventually even some of the other historic bow designs from other cultures.
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My HHA Longbows are just "COOL"
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I shoot R/D longbows and the only reason I call them a longbow is that the bowyers who build them call them a longbow. If they were called hybrid recurves by the bowyers, that's what I would call my bows. I really don't understand why some people continue to argue that true longbows are only those ASL types of bows. :deadhorse:
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Originally posted by longbow fanatic 1:
I shoot R/D longbows and the only reason I call them a longbow is that the bowyers who build them call them a longbow. If they were called hybrid recurves by the bowyers, that's what I would call my bows. I really don't understand why some people continue to argue that a true longbows are only those ASL types of bows. :deadhorse:
That is pretty much the point I was trying to make above! My R/D is a longbow, and another guys ASL is a longbow. Just shoot and have fun with what you want to shoot, and let the next guy have fun with what he wants to shoot!
Bisch
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The great golfer, Ben Hogan, was once asked why he liked the new golf ball (at that time) better than the old Balata ball. He thought for a moment and responded "Because they are better". And so it is with the longbow...... :D
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As I read through these posts, I wonder why it matters to some folks which bows are called longbows. The only thing I can figure out is that a r/d longbow will outshoot a straight-limbed longbow, which I believe is true, and so the playing field is not level. But then I see other posts that say r/d longbows aren't really any better; people just need to have the dedication to learn to shoot straight-limbed longbows. Okay, if someone has the dedication and has put in the time to where he can shoot a straight-limbed longbow better than someone else can shoot a r/d longbow, then I think that would be gratification enough that he wouldn't care what the guy he just outshot calls his bow. But I doubt if there are many people who can do that, which brings us back to the level playing field. I assume this is mainly a tournament question, since you can hunt with whatever you want, and you don't get any more points by bagging a deer with a r/d longbow or a recurve than you do if you bag one with a straight limbed longbow; it is purely a personal choice. I suppose they could set up separate classifications in tournaments for r/d and straight limbed longbows, like they do for primitives, but wouldn't that be an admission that straight limbed longbows are inferior to r/d longbows? I'm not sure the people who care about this issue would like that either, so what is it that you would like to see done about it?
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My wife's favorite bow is her NAT longbow, it is not long, it is a nice bow, but it is not a longbow, it is a hybrid recurve. I am selling my Robertson longbows, they shoot great, but they are not longbows really either, I would call them hybrid longbows. I just want to shoot real longbows. I like to see it when folks get all touchy about semantics, that way I know that I am not the only one that is a bit funny in the head.
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If you read my last post on the HH Bug thread it explains in detail why "Longbows" are my choice of bow.
God bless,Mudd
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Ok, following the popular but unsubstantiated opinion that all longbows are the same (despite decades of riser and limb design changes, technology upgrades and performance enhancements) doesn't that also mean that bows of ALL types are basically the same? Under that approach a longbow is a recurve is a compound is a crossbow. We don't need all these different labels, just call them all 'bows' and be done with it. Sorta like this is my brother Daryl, and this is my other brother Daryl. Makes perfect sense.
Excuse me while I go get my Mathews Switchback tuned up for the 2016 IBO national traditional barebow competition. :biglaugh:
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The problem with the argument that 50 years of technology and design development makes a R/D not a longbow is the fact that there is several hundred, maybe thousands of years of advancement from the original longbows to the glass laminate straight limb longbows of today. Really, a Hill style has much more in common with an R/D than it does with the all wood bows of yore. Again, I agree that there are some big differences and I'm all for calling a bow what it is; ASL, self bow, R/D, recurve, static tip recurve, TD recurve, TD R/D, etc; but I think it's rediculous that guys get so bent out of shape when somebody calls their pretty new R/D a longbow. Maybe you guys should stop insulting our Medieval English brethren by calling your fancy glass laminated ASL a longbow. ;)
Whatever you shoot, shoot straight.
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Target bows is target bows, huntin' bows is huntin' bows and compounds is leverage machines.
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I'm with Tom44 on this one. If we want to get super technical, and base it off of days gone by then the ELB is the longbow of the group, which is an all wood bow with horn or other material tips, then say starting at the ASL, and selfbows we have now moved into Flatbows. The English still do not consider an ASL a longbow but rather a flatbow.
So I think from here on out they should be flatbow or r/d flatbow!! Someone needs go contact all of our bowyers and let them know they need to update their sites. My JD Berry taipan is now a d/r flatbow And my JD Berry Morningstar is a Flatbow
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I like to get on posts like this and start at the last comment and read them backwards to the opening post. It's kinda funny
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I like reflex/deflex longbows. They get the speed and power of a recurve without the need for a stringer and go "THUD" instead of "TWANG" which I prefer. Also, I like low grips better and the lighter weight of a longbow better. I don't think longbows are superior tools to recurves, but for my preferences they are better.
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I got lost fairly quick after I asked the original question. guys talking about types of bows I never heard of! so basically, a simple bear Montana is not a long bow? a Howard hill is maybe a long bow? or the only longbow is an old English bow from the mid ages?
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The real reason is because they make the hunter look so good
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To answer the original question, there are a lot of reasons you see a lot of longbows at shoots nowadays. First, there are the positive traits of most all one piece longbows: light weight, smooth draw, quiet release. Takedowns with R/D limbs have all these except the light weight (comparatively). Some guys like selfbows because of the added challenge, nostalgia, or the idea of using one of the purest forms of traditional archery. Some like Hill style, ASL, straight limb, or whatever you want to call that type of longbow, for a lot of the same reasons, but with a little more durability that comes with modern materials and construction techniques. Others like the R/D longbows because you get the light weight, smooth draw, and quietness, but keep performance close to what you get with a recurve. Some like the looks of a three piece and either like or at least don't mind the added weight, but like the smooth draw and quiet release of a longbow and opt for the takedown with R/D limbs. In short, the reason you are seeing more and more longbows is that there are many different options in the "longbow" market. Most trad archers can find one that works for them, and for many, the advantages out way the disadvantages (if there are any) when compared to recurves. For me, I have enjoyed every style of traditional bow I have tried and will likely continue to shoot multiple styles.
:campfire:
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Originally posted by Gray Buffalo:
The real reason is because they make the hunter look so good
And then there's that. :D
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quote:
Originally posted by tomsm44:
To answer the original question, there are a lot of reasons you see a lot of longbows at shoots nowadays. First, there are the positive traits of most all one piece longbows: light weight, smooth draw, quiet release. Takedowns with R/D limbs have all these except the light weight (comparatively). Some guys like selfbows because of the added challenge, nostalgia, or the idea of using one of the purest forms of traditional archery. Some like Hill style, ASL, straight limb, or whatever you want to call that type of longbow, for a lot of the same reasons, but with a little more durability that comes with modern materials and construction techniques. Others like the R/D longbows because you get the light weight, smooth draw, and quietness, but keep performance close to what you get with a recurve. Some like the looks of a three piece and either like or at least don't mind the added weight, but like the smooth draw and quiet release of a longbow and opt for the takedown with R/D limbs. In short, the reason you are seeing more and more longbows is that there are many different options in the "longbow" market. Most trad archers can find one that works for them, and for many, the advantages out way the disadvantages (if there are any) when compared to recurves. For me, I have enjoyed every style of traditional bow I have tried and will likely continue to shoot multiple styles.
:thumbsup:
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Just love the feel and sound of my longbow. Started with the recurve but discovered that the longbow just did more for me.
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my curiosity is rising
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Simple, quiet, and fast.
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the chicks dig it
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It's funny as to how something so simple can end up so confusing! :thumbsup:
Steve
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Like I said, what someone wants to call it doesn't really matter. Pull off your recurve limbs, bolt those "longbow" limbs and there you go. My girlfriend likes to call her Toyota Sequoia her truck. But my Nissan Titan isn't a Peterbilt.
Stickbow, I shoot a stickbow.
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The original post/question - why so many longbows?
Most "longbow" shooters shoot r/d bows which give you the best of both worlds...the lightness of a longbow without the handshock and the performance nearly equal to a recurve.
Reading through these posts, if you take some guys' definition of a longbow - an ASL or English lonbow or something where the limbs don't bend in more than one direction when unstrung - then there are actually very few longbow shooters.
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Mean what you say and say what you mean...I've always liked that little quip. But with longbows everything always means the same thing!!! So confusing.
What we need is a good dictionary. I just happen to have one. Looking looking....ah yes here it is.
longbow 1. A wooden bow approximately five to six feet long; 2. A medieval English bow occasionally over six feet long.
Uh-oh, what happened to the 'longbows are whatever you want them to be' stuff? There's nothing about the role of personal preferences at all. Heck, they don't even mention reflex/deflex, locator grips or bolt-on limbs.
Stupid dictionary.
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I'm just going to call mine a hybrid stickbow. It's clearly not a recurve and evidently not a longbow... :banghead: :confused: :laughing:
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I'm with ya Dennis, mine is a bastardized,hybridized, curvy stick with limb bolts and and wedges,and phenolic tips and low stretch string and all kinds of other stuff that disqualifies it from being a real bow.
:biglaugh: :deadhorse:
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quote:
Originally posted by kennym:
I'm with ya Dennis, mine is a bastardized,hybridized, curvy stick with limb bolts and and wedges,and phenolic tips and low stretch string and all kinds of other stuff that disqualifies it from being a real bow.
:biglaugh: :biglaugh:
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Originally posted by TSP:
Mean what you say and say what you mean...I've always liked that little quip. But with longbows everything always means the same thing!!! So confusing.
What we need is a good dictionary. I just happen to have one. Looking looking....ah yes here it is.
longbow 1. A wooden bow approximately five to six feet long; 2. A medieval English bow occasionally over six feet long.
Uh-oh, what happened to the 'longbows are whatever you want them to be' stuff? There's nothing about the role of personal preferences at all. Heck, they don't even mention reflex/deflex, locator grips or bolt-on limbs.
Stupid dictionary.
Problem is they say wooden bows, they don't say anything about fiberglass.....
So it has to be a selfbow or a bow made of wood only too, 60" to occasionally over 72" long
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Just so I can join in the fun, I'll admit that my PL II isn't a longbow when someone can prove to me that my Achilles hypalon raft isn't a boat because it isn't fashioned from a hollowed out log.
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Uh oh. I decided to double check on the dictionary thing. The one I looked at said this: "a large wooden weapon (called a bow) that shot arrows and was used for hunting and fighting in the past." My R/D is no longer a longbow seeing as I would like to be able to continue using after the past. Stupid dictionaries. I think I'll just call it "Fred".
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Here is a definition I found
A longbow is a type of bow that is tall—roughly equal to the height of the user; allowing the archer a fairly long draw, at least to the jaw. A longbow is not significantly recurved. Its limbs are relatively narrow so that they are circular or D-shaped in cross section. Flatbows can be just as long; the difference is that, in cross-section, a flatbow has limbs that are approximately rectangular.
So I'm thinking the ASL is a flatbow
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I have always referred to mine (66" to 70") as "American Flatbows" but everybody who looks at them calls them "longbows". Never heard the term ASL until a couple years ago and was surprised to learn that it was Howard's terminology. Guess I live in my own small box :biglaugh:
There are so many designs out there now that I'm in the " splitter" camp. The more we label the various incarnations the more readily we can talk about them in environments like this forum.
Maybe then people would stop calling my bows "Hill" bows, cause they aren't :biglaugh:
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Just something about oozing through the woods with a longbow!
Terry
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The key aspect of 'what's a longbow' is that we are losing or have lost the ability/willingness to differentiate between what was and what is. In effect the original term 'longbow' has lost it's identity.
Longbow definitions offered in threads above (btw, sources would help), when compared to the bows shot today, are a good example of just how far we have departed from the original concept.
Given all the design changes I see nothing wrong with revisiting and clarifying what a 'longbow' is and isn't, including due respect for both older and newer designs and creating more applicable terms and names where warranted. It would offer a way to characterize and provide identity to distinct designs, on a fair basis. Certainly, the 'string doesn't touch the limb when strung' approach so popular at shooting competitions now is patently absurd as a longbow definition since it relates only to a bow's aesthetics and in no way reflects it's construction characteristics or performance capabilities. Having better terms would make apples to apples comparisons and discussions much easier/more credible. Having better definitions doesn't mean as much for hunting...critters don't care what they are shot with...but it would mean alot for rational comparisons re bow speed, smoothness, materials, design features, competitive venues and general construction/performance...all popular topics at this and most other sites.
We shouldn't feel threatened by a better/more specific set of terms for the gear we use. Why restrict ourselves to one generic term like 'longbow', created centuries ago for centuries-old materials, to describe the diversified and ever-expanding and complex types of 'longbows' we now have? It's not fair to the old designs OR the new designs.
Why not give each of the designs their due and be clear about their respective characteristics? Why bury our head in the sand rather than embrace common-sense? Why is the 'this is my brother Daryl, and this is my other brother Daryl' approach so attractive to so many of y'all? WHY WHY WHY ??? Why am I wasting my time writing this?
:knothead: :biglaugh:
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NOT time wasted. I second that and third It if allowed. You have stated succinctly what I said rather clumsily.
But, be careful, I was once accused of behaving like the "Hill police" :biglaugh:
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TSP, I agree with you for the most part. When I mention my "longbow" around other trad archers, I usually try to clarify by calling it an "R/D longbow". Around non trad hunters, it doesn't really matter. I've had lots of people call my recurves "longbows". The point I was trying to make earlier was aimed at a few of the Hill bow guys that have suggested, on this site and others, that their laminated Hill bow is a longbow but an R/D is not. In actuality, a Hill style has a lot more in common with my R/D than it does with the original English longbows. I don't see a problem with calling them all longbows, but a clarrification would definitely be helpful. We actually already have all the names we need, it's just a matter of people using the full descriptive names instead of just "longbow". ASL or flat bow for the American style all wood bows, Hill style longbow for the laminated straight limb bows, R/D longbow for the ones with curved limbs, hybrid longbow for the ones with recurve style risers and R/D limbs.
:campfire:
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That's why I am getting rid of my Robertsons, thems ain't real longbows. Actually, just want to shoot bows with straight grips, but the semantics are fun get all elity over. I still do not think of my wife's favorite bow, Lost Creek NAT, as a longbow. It is not long and it is the best and most forgiving short recurve that I have shot. I prefer the term semi-recurve when the limbs have a bit of reflex gain when loaded. While it does change how the bow will shoot, it does clarify what it looks like.
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What's with you longbow guys and stringers? I guess it must be a sin to use one and if you do you're not a real longbow shooter. Is that it?
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Nope, do what you want to do. We like to tease each other.
ChuckC
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With real long longbows that are really stiff, like my old 96 pound Jerry Hill or my 89 pound 70" Hill, getting them loaded can be real gut buster without a stringer. Some longbows have very small tips and the cap stringers cover the string grooves. On Hill Archery bows they generally have a top tip that is long enough so the loader caps do not cover the string grooves. Generally an ASL or mild R/D will not twist with the push pull like recurves, it is still import to watch that bottom tip to make sure that it is not grinding the ground and that the string is in the grooves properly. For some this motion is difficult, and it is very handy to have the appropriate stringer or a bow that can make use of a stringer.
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What a compliment; I've never been called a real longbow shooter and a non sinner in one phrase. Thanks.
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Longbows have some benefits. Light in physical weight., great looking, special feel at the shot, simple in design so that they are solid, easy to string in the field, quiet to the max, fast enough to do the trick, very stable and forgiving. I build just about every kind of bow there is except horse bows and when push comes to shove and my life depended on it I would have a longbow, string follow or light reflex or a very light d and r in my hand.
God bless, Steve