Quote from: Ryan Rothhaar on December 05, 2025, 05:52:46 AMI'd look at the broadhead before getting carried away building arrows. It's simple to test. Take a piece of medium thick leather and push your single bevel stinger thru by hand on an arrow and see how much force it takes. Do the same with a double bevel cut on contact head. If the single bevel more blunt head is lots harder to push thru then there's your answer.

When I was a kid Dad had guys do this at archery shows using a piece of deer leather and a pyramid type replaceable blade head. Then he'd give them a sharp Snuffer. That simple test sold lots of heads for him.
R

Many years ago at the Dixie Deer Classic your dad had me do this very thing - and you are right Ryan it sold me on cut on contact heads and especially Snuffer heads!

I have a pelican case that holds a riser and two sets of limbs, and 2-3 dozen arrows.  I've flown with it several times to and from Alaska to the lower 48, and have never had any problems.  If TSA ever thought it was a gun, they never said "boo" to me about it. 

When my daughter and I flew with bows a few months ago from Alaska to Chicago O'hare, I packed her 58" longbow in a thick cardboard tube I got from the industrial supply store where I work.  The tube was very thick-walled, for threaded rod... we throw those tubes in the dumpster every day.  I sawzall-ed it into two equal pieces and zip-tied and taped them together (so they wouldn't roll), and used one side for the bow and the other side for arrows.  Worked great. 

Thanks all! I looked at Big Jims. Man, that thicker stuff is super expensive!

So in my above comment, the 2 blade Grizzly broadhead used in the setup was part of the Ashby studies maximizing penetration.  Ashby was trying to maximize penetration on large game animals but the principles involved work as well with marginal weight setups for the application at hand (young archers and deer or older archer with lighter weight bow and maybe trying to tackle elk or moose). Skinny carbon arrows with higher front of center points will greatly increase your penetration.  A 3 to 1 length broadhead would increase that performance more, but if you're shooting a 40-45 pound bow with high performance string and using a carbon arrow with a little higher front of center (doesn't have to be extreme) then by all means use a wide two blade, narrow 3 blade or four blade head.  You will get plenty of penetration with clean flying broadhead arrows (a must with any setup). 

I've shot deer and bear with two and three blade heads.  I'm very good at sharpening heads and even my 3 blade Trailmaker heads will pop hair off my arm.  I've shot 3 deer with 2 blade Grizzly heads.  Many, many deer with 3 blade heads and two blade Zwickey Delta heads. 3 black bears, one with 3 blade Razorcaps and two with Zwickey Delta 2 blade. 
Bears-3 blade 35 yards. 2 blades under 60. All death moans. No tracking, either in sight or walked up to the direction of moan.  Hit a bear where you're supposed to and don't worry about what you're using if sharp. 

Deer-wide array of results but following generalizations:
3 blade-best trails but deer hightailed out! Can go up to 150 yards even if hit perfectly
Two blade Zwickey Delta- decent blood and under 100 yard recovery usually. Usually two holes no matter what.  One time I shot two deer fifteen minutes apart with two blade Journeyman concave blade heads.  Both deer ran about 70-80 yards.  NEITHER had complete penetration using 60# bow.  Didn't ever use concave head's again. 

Three deer with Grizzly head.  One ran thirty yards and tipped over. One walked away as if never hit and dropped in sight 60 yards (open woods). One ran 60 yards and heard it fall and thrashing so no "trailing", just walked to the last sound after a little wait. 
So there you have my general experience.  I will say I didn't notice a lot of blood on way to Grizzly shot deer, but it was certainly there. 

I haven't purchased it from them but I know Rosewood Archery sells some various sizes of G-10.

Quote from: JohnV on December 24, 2025, 09:08:02 AMThe Ashby Study that so many talk about is so misunderstood.  The majority of the study is focused on maximizing penetration and breaking bone...not blood trails. Single bevel broadheads come in widths that range from the narrow 1" width that so many seem to despise to over 1.5", just like you find differences in double bevel widths.  We don't need to be scientists to figure out that a wide broadhead cuts more tissue than a narrow one or that a multi blade heads likely have more surface cutting area than a two blade and therefore opens a bigger wound channel for blood to exit, provided the depth of penetration is equal.  Single bevels, tanto tips, heavy arrow weights, high FOC are about maximizing penetration, not improving bloodtrails.  Dr. Ashby appears in many videos that can be found on Youtube where he discusses his studies, limitations of the study, and misconceptions that so many have.  It makes for interesting listening.

I will comment separately on my results and opinions on blood trails and effectiveness of two and three Bladen single pebble heads. I have to agree with the above that the Ashby studies were more about penetration and are truly misunderstood.  Years ago I had a friend who had some kids that he wanted to take bow hunting. They were using light weight Bear little Bear bow's around 25-30 pounds (I'm NOT advocating or endorsing, just illustrating).  I set him up with Easton Axis Jr. Arrows that had 2 blade Grizzly single bevel heads, steel inserts (225 grain total up front).  The kids got good flight with this setup and shot four white tails with two hole penetration on each. Shots were 13 yards or less from 10 foot platform. This was all about getting the most efficient arrow for penetration purposes and not about killing performance of the particular broadhead that this discussion is about.  The principal ideas of the Ashby studies were definitely focused on penetration.

Thanks everyone for your input!

After a couple discussions with people who've had damage in both soft case in luggage / hard sided duffle (that failed), and people who's bags haven't shown up until the end of the hunt, I decided to go with a Pelican 1700 for my main bow, and then I'll just grab a cheap backup recurve to stuff in my luggage as well. Both the Pelican and the duffle will have a dozen arrows.

I know the pelican won't get destroyed as I'm on 50+ flights a year with one, and that way even if a bag doesn't show, hopefully the other does.

Is he still around?  His website no longer works.

That's a great area. Best of luck down there... looks like you may have some fun weather coming up too. Drop me an address and I'll crash the party 

  "I think it was Howard Hill that started the 3:1 ratio concept. It certainly works for penetration, but the holes are too small"
   
Sums it up for me