Hill bow and light vs heavy arrows

[Jan Westphal]

Hi all, last week I got a HH Sirocco and test shot it with heavy and way overspined wooden arrows - the right ones are still being fletched. Bow shot quiet but really slow, almost like a out of tiller selfbow.

Today (arrows are still in the works) I grabbed a set of light carbons, shot a bareshaft and went shooting with those 7.5 gpp arrows. It was a blast! A little shock in the hand but not much, pretty quick and still very quiet.

I understand the design of the bow dictates for a big arrow to deliver most of the energy to the arrow not the handle. Also most HHA bows are probably hunting bows.

Could it be that the "Hill bows are to be shot with heavy arrows" has become a kind of dogma, repeated over and over especially on the internet? Hunting is illegal here so I am a 3D shooter and might look for a second set of arrows besides the woodies to see which I like best...

[Bladepeek]

I'm not a Hill owner, but many bowyers don't recommend shooting with light arrows due to the added strain on the bow. Just how light, varies with the bowyer, but I haven't seen any recommending less than 8gpp and some are adamant about nothing less than 9gpp.

I would contact HHA bows for their recommendation as 7.5gpp sounds awfully light to me. Carried to extremes, a light arrow could approach dry firing.

[meatCKR]

Picked up a new to me Wesley special marked 49# @ 26".  I draw to 27.  I did not have any woodies made up for it at the time so I took out some XX75 2016 gamegetters that I had.  They were cut to 27.5" BOP with 150gr up front.  Total arrow weight was 480 grains so I was about 9 gpp.  Man that hill bow threw those arrows down range like they were coming out of a recurve!  I could not believe it.

7.5 gpp sounds a little light, but I bet you could go a little heavier (maybe 8.5) and still have a lot of fun.

Steve

There is a catch 22 with Hill style longbows, they like heavy arrows, the mass of the limb in ratio to the weight of the arrow results in not as much speed loss from arrow weight and not as much speed gain when the arrow is lighter than normal.  However, they do not like to shoot arrows way over spine for most shooters.   It is a bit of an impossibility that a Hill style bow will shoot a heavy arrow faster than a recurve if that same recurve can shoot a normal weight arrow faster in the first place.  The recurve will still be faster, but the difference in arrow speed from a light arrow to a heavy arrow will be less with the longbow.  There are lots of arguments that one can get into with those that think only in terms of vertically held center shot bows, quite often they simply do not understand the different dynamics and actions of a bow that is less center shot and less efficient.   Generally with a moderate draw, a Hill bow can tolerate a lower gpp than a high performance bow.  If that brings out the hand shock, try shooting with a bit of a bend at the elbow and a lighter squeeze on the grip.  Remember heal the grip, you could throw the limbs out of time if you are bridging high on the grip.

[SCATTERSHOT]

What brace height were you using for those heavy arrows?

[Cavscout9753]

Pavan's input is, as usual, solid gold. As for myself, one of the best things about Hill bows in my experience is the simplicity when it comes to arrows. I shoot wood arrows, but with a 27" 50-55 and either 125 or 160 tips, there's isn't too much guess work. The spine is close to the bow's draw, the weight is heavy enough for game, light enough for trajectory, and the most I do is adjust brace + or - to get them flying great.

[Jan Westphal]

@scattershot
Just above 7", string came out a little short. Need to make another, the bow shoots fine like that but there isn't room experimenting with a lower brace.

@all
I totally agree, 7.5 is not good but on the other hand, 10 might not be necessary to achieve a good trajectory, little hand shock and safety for the bow plus piece of mind.
The woodies are going to be rather fancy, all barelled and matched with small feathers and light points, they might do the trick, we'll see...

[two4hooking]

I find that a POC shaft and 125-145 grain point and cut to draw length is about the best combination of balance, weight, and speed.....is it any wonder this was the "normal set up" for a long time.

[SCATTERSHOT]

7" doesn't aound too far out of line, I was just thinking that a really high brace might explain the sluggish cast.

[MikeNova]

In hunting the hard way howard said he didn't like footed arrows because of the extra weight. Seems somewhere I read howard shot realitivly light weight arrows. Maybe someone who knows what weight arrows howard shot will chime in.

[Friend]

After establishing the actual bows recommendations, I would believe moderation would serve both you and your bow quite well.

[Pat B.]

Friend is such a sharp fellow....

"Avoid extremes", are words that I try to live by.

[Mike Mongelli]

What length is the bow Jan?  7" won't even give you a welt on your wrist, what fun is that?  Try around 6" with a B50 string.  Those arrows aren't really all that light either...  Somewhere around low eights for gpp is ideal.

[stonewall]

Jan why is it illegal to hunt ? Yall don't eat meat ? What keep's the animal population in control if you can't hunt?

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Forget anybody's dogma, just shoot what you want, what you find works best, for your application, within reason.

In the past, my Dougblas fir boar arrows have weighed about 780 grains out of my 75# Wesley Special. They worked beautifully.

Currently, I'm shooting 1130 grain red balau arrows out of the same bow, and they also shoot super nicely. Different application (hope to kill a buffalo).

Actually, back to those 780 grain arrows and that bow... I made my best ever target shot with that combination, hitting a plastic milk bottle perfectly at 100 yards. Wish I could do that every day!

[WVbowhunter]

Well Howard Hill's arrows were around 700 grains as he mentioned in Hunting the Hard Way. These he shot out of his 90 pound bow "Grandpa" so he was only shooting roughly 7.8 grains per pound of draw. By that 7.5 is not really that unusual.