English Longbow with reflexed tips?

[huntsmanlance]

Thanks to Bob i just watched this series on medieval longbows called Weapons that made Britain.....  http://uk.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=Pwata&p=r

If you watch the towards the end of part 3 the narrator Mike Loades has a bowyer Chris Boyton make him a custom ELB with reflexed tips to get more speed and power out of the bow. He doesnt say how much it improved the design but i have always wondered why i hadnt seen any ELB's with curved tips because it seems to me that with ends like this it would really improve the bows performance.

Has anyone tried this when making a ELB?

Thanks,
Lance

[Shakes.602]

Very Cool Lance!!     Thanks for Sharing!!  

[huntsmanlance]

Thanks Shakes, it is a neat series but i am more interested in an ELB used for hunting and was wondering if anyone had done this and if it really made the bow a better performer.

[aromakr]

Lance:
Have you ever thought that with reflexed tips, its no longer an English Longbow, just another Hybred. The English Longbow has always been a string follow bow and should remain that way.
Bob

[Grayishhues]

Aromakr, I disagree. If you watch the clips they show evidence that some english archers used a bow with reflexed tips. The bows that were recovered from the Mary Rose were of this design. Also, I think what really defines an ELB as an ELB is the rounded belly.

[Pat B]

I have seen old pics and paintings of ELBs with slightly recurved tips. The Mary Rose type of war bows(90#-150#) didn't need to have then because they shot their 1000 to 1500 gr arrows well enough but some of the later target ELB style bows did have slightly recurved tips.     Pat

[Ron LaClair]

This is an 80# 72" English Yew longbow made for me in 1981 by Don Adams. The tips appear to be curved but it's only the horn nocks and not the wood bow that is curved.  

     

[huntsmanlance]

Pretty cool bow Ron! I bet she was a shooter at 80# !!!

I had always wondered about it and had seen the paintings too so when i saw the actuall bows from the Mary Rose with ends like that in the series and then to see that bowyer Chris Boyton make one i was convinced.

Like they said in the series the bows from the Mary Rose are about the only ones from then that survived and i dont think to many people knew that they were doing the hybrid thing way back before now!

I was lucky enough to track down the narrator of the series Mike Loades...a really nice guy...and he told me that he had been shooting ELB's for many years and the bow he had Boyton make just flat out perfoms better than any he had ever shot.

He said he would get some chrono readings for me from his new bow and another D shaped bow that are the same length and weight and send them to me.

I just thought i would ask here and see if anyone had done this because like said in previous post when you are shooting a 120# + bow at enemy troops it doesnt make that much of a difference but with a 55# to 60# hunting bow i sure could see the benifits!

[Billy Thomas]

Originally posted by aromakr:
Lance:
Have you ever thought that with reflexed tips, its no longer an English Longbow, just another Hybred. The English Longbow has always been a string follow bow and should remain that way.
Bob

Actually..........there's considerable evidence that the english (as well as normans and vikings) were reflexing the tips of their bows as early as the late 13th century. In addition to there being many illustrations showing bows with reflexed tips. In the 15th century book, Toxophilus (might be a little off with date and spelling) there are specific instructions for the archer, after his bow is shot in, to take it back to the bowyer and "Have the ends brought right around". That can really only mean that after your bow develops some follow take it and have it reflexed to pick the lost power back up.

When the Romans came to Britian they had scythian archers as auxillaries. They were using horn composite recurves, what we would consider "horse bows". I'm almost positive there are surviving examples actually. So they would certainly have been exposed to recurved bows a LONG time before the middle ages.

[Ron LaClair]

Here we go, trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.......... :rolleyes:    :confused:  .....  

[O.L. Adcock]

Ron, You got that right! I was thinking a little further south on the pig.. ....O.L.

[huntsmanlance]

Ouch!    Compared to a modern longbow that is reflex/deflex and with a contured grip of course the ELB doesnt compare.

But I absolutely LOVE doing the medieval recreation and shooting a ELB that is as close to what they used back then makes that dream even more fulfilling.....and who wouldnt want a bow that had the best possible performance as they could get?

[O.L. Adcock]

Just funning Lance, they've got their romance and mystique to go with some myths. Ability to shoot heavy arrows in particular. Out of curiousity I looked at the FITA ELB flight shooting rules, it does not mention whether reflex is allowed. You can bet the english wrote those rules. They have strict rules on limb cross section dimentions and bow lengths based on arrow length, no arrow pass, horn nocks, ect... To keep them faithful to 13-14th century design...Then they allow a "modern" string?? Go figure!    Interesting to note about half or more of the ELB world distance records are held by Americans!   ....O.L.

[Billy Thomas]

Originally posted by O.L. Adcock:
Ron, You got that right! I was thinking a little further south on the pig..    ....O.L.

That'd be an "Interesting" handle wrap!

hmmmmmmm

[huntsmanlance]

[mmgrode]

Thanks for posting this!  That was very interesting!  Cheers, Matt

[Matt S]

Awesome videos! Thanks for that.

[Tilbilly]

Isn't the term "English longbow" kind of a misnomer? Didn't other Europeans have that style as well, even before the Brits? Seems the Brits used them because it leant itself to mass production and squeezing out alot of bows per tree. Sorry to get off-topic and tech-headed.
Just a pet peeve    

BTW that was a cool video series. Even adding a little recurve to the tips. The TradBowyersBible has some info. on that too.

[Billy Thomas]

True, in fact the Britons were more known for using the javelin prior to the introduction of the longbow by the saxons(?). However, it was the english who were the first to take the longbow to the ridiculous, 150#, wrist thick, extreme that has generally become known as the ELB.