New to traditional , arrow help

[DAC86]

So I'm fairly new to traditional and actually any form of archery.
  I have shot and know just alittle bit mostly from online.
  So I have a 50 lb recurve. I wish to get carbon arrows, I now own wood only.
  I need help deciding on arrow spine. I would like to hunt but mostly target shooting but would like my target field point arrows to basically match the hunting broadheads.
  So with a 30 inch arrow from inside groove of nock to beginning of field point or broadhead with a 50 lb bow at 28 inch (which is my draw length) I was at first think of a 400 spine arrow. But i'de like to increase the grain of my arrow to just above 500 grains, so I would either use a heavier broadhead or a heavier insert with a 125 grain broadhead/field tip whish I use a 125 gr on my wood arrows now.
  Would it be recommended to go with a 340 spine arrow at 30 inches due to increase of foc.
  I'm choosing to go with at least a 500 gr arrow since I wish to hunt and have been reading 500 or more Is best for penetration with a 50 lb bow

  Sorry for my long text and amateur question. Thanks for reading

[Cavscout9753]

For best results share all bow stats. Make/model, string material, etc. If you plan on trimming the arrows down, I'd go with a .500 spine. Heck, even at full length I'd go with 500. Carbon recovers so quickly that its better to be on the softer margin of spine. You can certainly bump up the tip weight if you'll be trimming them down. There's a ton of info to pour through here, plus 3Rivers Archery has a spine calculator on it which is a handy tool to play with, just be sure to input all the data in exactly correct.
All that said, I find wood to be easy to get working for me, but a lot of guys have the carbon game down to a science and once you have the right formula its easy to keep at them. Good luck and welcome!!

[Saguache]

.340 Spine will require a lot of point weight to tune out of your bow. I think a .400 at 30" with 200 + grains up front will get you close to the spine and weight you want. One piece of advice I have for you is to start with full length shafts and trim them back as a part of tuning, if you cut them before tuning you might have to add more point weight than you want to get them flying straight. You might even want to try a heavy .500 shaft like a CE Heritage or GT heavy hunter, you'll be able to use less point weight to get to your desired weight.

[DAC86]

Cavscout
Thank you.

I have a 50 lb samick sage 62 in with a fast flight
flemish twist (I believe 18 strand)
  My wood arrows are cut at 29 inches and with a 125 gr tip, I emailed 3 rivers and they recommended a 400 spine at 30 inches or a heavier broadhead if I stay with 29 inch arrow. I emailed them back because  I forgot to mention after doing more research I would like to start hunting and after looking at this site I signed up and many posts stating at least a 500 gr arrow. I want to get the gold tip traditionals.
  So at 400 spine a gold tip traditional is 9.3 gr per inch. With their 30 inch recommendation and a 125 gr arrowhead I'm almost 100 gr shy of the 500 gr mark.
  So I figured as per their chart if I do a 30 inch arrow and either a 175 gr arrowhead or a 125 gr with a heavier gr insert I can get to my 500 gr mark. But that would leave me to get a 340 spine according to the chart. Or should I maybe go with 400 gr at 29 inches instead of 30 with a heavier arrowhead to make 500 gr roundabout.
  Also with my wood arrows I have the bohning classic nocks and they are very loose, any recommendations. Sorry that's off topic I don't expect a reply to that.
  Now since you mentioned 500 spine I'm a little confused. But I do thank you for the reply.
3 rivers spine calculator is down or just not working for me at the moment but they do reply quickly and seem to be a great site. So for now I'm just going off there spine chart, knowing it may not be perfect for every situation.

[DAC86]

Thank you saguache  as well, man great site you guys reply quickly and very informative. It seems like I'm thinking of too stiff of a spine weight and we'll just over thinking a bit.

 So it seems easy enough to install inserts and points. I'll look into those arrows as well. I think I like the idea of 400 spine with a heavy point. I seen 3rivers have a point test kit with many different grs. I think 125 to 200 if I saw right. I would like to stick with 30 inch arrows since my 29 inch wood arrows with broadheads only leave me just about 1 inch before the broadhead would hit my bow and wouldn't mind an extra inch.
  I don't have a arrow saw to cut and really don't want to spend the money on one just yet, not to sound stupid.
  U don't think a 400 spine arrow at 30 inches with a 200 gr tip would make it too weak?

[DAC86]

Also am I right in the idea of getting my arrow grain up to 500 gr mark, or is it OK to be in the 400-430 gr mark for hunting, i'de like to keep my hunting and target arrows in the same grain range so I'm always as accurate

[Msturm]

There are far more knowledgable people than myself on this topic, but just anecdotal observations from my experiences with arrows:  Getting them shooting nicely is the top priority. A 10 grain per pound of draw weight is ideal but a little less will still do the job.  Good flight is key. If you are confident in your form I would buy a test kit for both shafts and point weights and play with some bare shaft tuning until you get it dialed in.  I believe 3 rivers will send you bareshafts of three different spines just for this purpose.

If you get it flying good at 10 yards move back to 15, then 20, then 30. If they fly good out to 30 I think you are golden.


Just my 2 cents

[JamesKerr]

Even a 400 spine shaft is going to be pretty stiff out of a 50 lb. bow up until you start looking at a point wt. in excess of 200 grains. Based off of the info you have given your best bet will most likely be either a heavy 500 spine shaft with 125-150 grain points or a 400 spine shaft with heavier point weights. Don't be afraid to shoot some of the really heavy points either. I know it seems a little strange at first but putting 250-300 grains on the front end of a carbon arrow can really make for a better hunting and all around shooting arrow.

[DAC86]

It seems like I'm way off on what spine arrow to use.
  Thank you everyone for the help.
So it seems like a 500 spine with a 175 gr tip looks good.
  I'm going to get the 3rivers carbon bare shaft test kit, 4 different spines with 400 and 500 included, and then the tip test kit which is from 100 to 250 gr field point.
I'de really like my arrows at 30 inches but I will get the arrow saw as well because i'de rather have this perfect, even if a 31 inch arrow Flys better then that would definitely be preferable.

From what I'm getting from posts a 500 spine is best out of a 50 lb bow and with a 175 gr tip and maybe even a 50 gr insert I'm close to that 500 gr mark.

Thank you all again. I will keep practicing my form and proper technique with my wood arrows for now which are not exactly spined right.
  I think I'm just trying to rush into this which will probably really really hurt me in the long run.
  So slow and steady from here.


This site seems like I will be getting a lot of help from alot of good people so I'm excited about that.

[Cavscout9753]

the test kits are the way to go. Carbon gives you a lot of options to play with. For what its worth, when I bought my samick redstag (50# @ 28", my draw with a recurve), I got .400 spine arrows (Gold Tip 5575) and did all I could to make them work. Up to 200 grains out front. It just wasnt enough. The difference is I cut them down to around 29" if I recall. It was a miserable tunning experience. Very frustrating. Conversely, had I gone with a 500 spine (Gold Tip 3555) like everyone told me I needed, I could have avoided a lot of wasted time, money, and frustration.

[dbd870]

I recently fought the carbon arrow war with my 50# Martin and ended up with 500's and a 200gr point.

If your draw weight is actually 50# at your 28" draw length, then you are right on the edge between a .500 and .400 spine shaft. You should be able to make either work. The .400 will be quite a bit longer. You will need somewhere between 200-300gr yup front (insert and point weight), depending on which shaft and how long it is.

Bisch

[damascusdave]

When it comes to arrow weight think of it this way...if you shoot a 400 grain arrow with 40 pound draw weight you are shooting 10gpp...shoot the same arrow with 50 pound draw weight and you are only shooting 8 gpp but the arrow will have more energy...lots of animals have been killed with 400 grain arrows

DDave

[DAC86]

I was figuring the 500 gr range for hunting. But from alot of what I've been reading a 400 grain arrow is plenty for a deer. Which is the biggest animal I would hunt around here.
  Again I'm going to get the arrow and tip test kits and go from there. I can get a 500 gr arrow , which seems to be recommend for a 50 lb recurve by most , to 450-475 with a 175 gr tip.

   Seen nothing but good things about the gold tip traditional and plan on going with them and keeping at 30 inch ( I have 28 inch draw ).

  Once I get set and tuned up I'll share my results