Tiller question

[Joe2Crow]

Hi Gang,

I bought a used Blacktail elite VL takedown a little while back and it seems to have more vibration upon release than most of my other bows.  I measured the distance from the string to the riser/limb junction and it is approx. 3/8" longer on the top limb than the bottom.  I was under the impression that it is usually only about 1/8".  Could this be causing the noticeable vibration in the riser upon release.

I have the bow braced at the upper end of the recommended range (just under 8") and I am shooting arrows that are right at 10 gpp and I am shooting split finger.

Before anyone suggests that I call Norm, I have tried a couple of times but I just get my questions referred to his new business partner and his suggestions come back to check the obvious things that I just mentioned but doesn't answer my question about the tiller.

What do you guys think?  Could the tiller be off?  Thanks - Jeff

[McDave]

Have you bare shaft tuned to determine that the nock point is correct and that you are using properly spined arrows?

[Joe2Crow]

Yes, I have. Bare shafts fly slightly weak, which is how I like it.

[A.S.]

Joe, describe your string/silencer combo.

I have a new Blacktail Elite VL.  It is a pleasure to shoot, with very little vibration or noise.

[A.S.]

To answer your tiller question, I believe 3/8" positive tiller is fairly common for a bow built for split finger shooting.

[Tater]

Have you tried starting on the low end of brace height and working up?
   3/8 does sound a bit strong on the tiller, but that is a question for the bowyer.

[Roy from Pa]

3/8 is a bit high for a positive tiller. That's most likely what is causing the vibration.

[McDave]

The thing is, custom bowyers, particularly top of the line ones like Blacktail, tiller their bows individually so that the top and bottom limbs bend equally, when gripped either split or 3 under, whichever the bow is designed for.  So while 3/8" does seem on the high end to me too, I have to assume that's where the limbs bend equally for that particular bow.  I suppose you could test that yourself by putting the bow on a tillering stick.  Another indirect method of testing it is to bareshaft tune and see where the nock point ends up, which you state that you have done.  If you're getting level or slightly nock high arrow flight with a normally positioned nock point, that would be an indication that the bow is tillered correctly.

If the tiller seems correct for that particular bow, then you just have to go after the normal culprits, like string slap, silencers, noisy takedown connections, etc.  Some bows are just noisier than others, I guess.

[rraming]

Not bad mouthing anyone here but I have found that tiller from some bowyers (Maybe most, I am done spending money like that) is all over the place. I had three bows, same bows, from the same bowyer and all tillers were different - all made within a few years of each other. Think it's part of the challenge to find a bow that works for you.
Maybe that is a design method as stated above - I am no bowyer!

[PEARL DRUMS]

Does it feel balanced in your hand? That is all that matters. Not what measurement you get from side to side. It can be a 1/2" different as long as its balanced. If it feels good in your hand as you draw the bow then your problem lies elsewhere.

[MnFn]

I have had quite a few bows and never checked the tillering if the bow.  Ignorance is bliss.  Hope it works out for you.

[Joe2Crow]

Guys, thanks for all your feedback.  I re-measured today using a bow square and I guess it is closer to a 1/4" positive tiller.  I then measured more of my custom bows and to my surprise, several had a 1/4" positive tiller including my Dale Dye which is absolutely the most dead-in-the-hand bow on release that I own.  My widow PSAV also measured the same.  So I guess maybe the tiller isn't excessive but this bow definitely has more vibration upon release than all my other customs.

Allen, the string is a good condition Dacron (I believe) with beaver ball silencers. The bow is made to accept FF strings as well so I'm going to order one from you to see if that helps.

I love the feel of the bow in terms of smoothness of draw (64" length) and the grip. And it shoots fine.  It just "feels" like something is not quite right when you drop the string.  Similar to how some bows feel that are tillered for split finger and you shoot them 3-under, more vibration and noise.

I guess it's just this particular bow and I'll just have to get used to it.  Hopefully, a new string will make a little difference.  Thanks again all for your input.  Take care - Jeff

[Bob Morrison]

Jeff, I have changed tiller by loosening one of your main bolts to change tiller, 3/16" is normal for split finger....0 is normal for 3 under. NO ONE is normal, so a good place to start... See if it makes any difference??? 1/4" is a little much. Call if I can help..

Bob

[A.S.]

Joe, going from a Dacron string to a FF string will make a big difference in how it feels.  Give me a shout any time.

Allen

[Friend]

Am confident you have been provided the resources to resolve your issue.

[BenBow]

Yeah get rid of that deadcron string they are a common source of handshock.

[Joe2Crow]

Update:   received a new string from TenRing Strings - Fury with wrapped loops and double mini cat whiskers, braced it at 7.75" and it shoots like a different bow.   Can't stop shooting it.  Thanks Allen!