Totally Bamboozled

[A Lex]

G’day all

Got a bit of a problem here, and I was hoping some of you good people here on Tradgang might have a little insight on.

I shoot a Blackwidow longbow and wooden arrows and I thought I had some arrows dialed in spot on. I have actually been shooting them for quite a while now, and I thought they were tuned to perfection. Been regularly belting a tennis ball around the paddock with them, and whacking cabbage moths out in the boss’s turnip crop with them, so they’re pretty good.

When I paper tuned them a couple or three months ago, I got them pretty much making bullet holes from 6 feet back to 30 feet and every 3 feet between. Like I said, I thought they were dialed in perfectly. I put the same weight broadhead on and, so long as I did my part, 3 field points and 3 broad heads would consistently group together in a 4 inch group at 25 yards. Did that time and time again (I was shooting really good that day)

But, I shot them again today and I thought I saw a bit of a tail right kick in flight (it was a still day, no wind). So I put them through paper again, and yup, they are now showing a slight but constant and noticeable tail right at 6 feet and a 1 inch tail right tear at 15 feet. (I’m right handed)

I’ve double checked the following:
Brace height - same @ 7-7/8 to 8”
Draw length - same @ 27-1/2”. I checked that by putting a card on the arrow and drawing it, and I also had some one mark the arrow at the back of the shelf, did both ways 6 times each and each time, no matter how it was measured, my draw was constantly from 27-1/2” to 27-3/4”.
Nocking point has not moved - 3/4 inch high
Same string (about 5 months old)
Nicely run in strike plate (Blackwidow calf hair)

I was breaking in a new tab and I thought “aha” that’s the problem, so I went back to the old faithful Blackwidow, but it was no different, tears still showing stiff.

I tried 2 different strike plates, thinner and thicker. Same result - still showing a bit too stiff.

Don’t know what I’ve missed. Something has changed? Me? Arrow? Bow?

Details:
Me:
Right handed. Shoot 3 under. Been shooting Trad for 6-7 years, and been shooting it a lot. Had this bow for nearly 3 years now, love it and most days I shoot it rather well too. Learnt heaps from here on Tradgang. Couldn’t call my form perfect but it’s not bad.
Bow:
Blackwidow PLX, 75lb @ 28, D97 string
Arrow:
95-100# 11/32” Douglas Fir, 30-1/2 inches long, 235 grain point/broadhead, 3x5 inch right wing feathers.
Total arrow weight is 875 grains

Moving on, I tried a few progressively softer 11/32” Fir shafts I have floating around, all cut to 30” to BOP, all fletched with 3x5 inch right wing feathers, and all with 235 grain field tips. I tried 85-90’s, 80-85’s & 75-80’s.I shot these about 8-10 times each through paper at 15 feet, and the weaker in spine I went, the stiffer it showed.

Like I said, I’m really bamboozled.

On a whim, I tried my old Buffalo arrows through the paper at 6 feet, 15 feet, 18 feet and 24 feet and they made bullet holes of course, just as they have always done. Those arrows details are:
Forester 115# Red Balau hardwood shafts, 28-3/4” to BOP, 235 grain point with 75 grain woody weight (310 grain all up point weight) and 3x5 inch right wing feathers.

Sorry this is long winded, but I’m really lost. It’s not making sense.

False stiff maybe?

Any suggestions as to where from here?

Many thanks

Lex

[wingnut]

If your arrow is dead on spine and you under draw when shooting not testing your draw, you will show slight stiff.

This happens to me quite often if I don't shoot enough.  

Mike

[moebow]

"Something has changed? Me? Arrow? Bow?"

IF things were good before and now they are not, the only variable in the equation is YOU!!!!  Video from several angles and try to see what has changed in your execution.  If you want, post the video or send a link via PM and maybe one of us can pick something out.

There are many in this situation and often we are too quick to start changing equipment and not looking for the real culprit -- our own shot execution.

Arne

[kat]

It sure sounds like Arne is spot on again.
The only variable in the equation is you. There is no reason for the equipment perform any different, after you have checked everything out.
Take a break, think about form and execution, and give it another go.
Everyone has an off day from time to time.

I have to agree with Arne!

Bisch

[newhouse114]

The only possible physical change in your equipment might be if your arrows are poorly sealed and you have had an extreme change in humidity. Your arrows could possibly swell or contract slightly and change spine.

[fujimo]

or dry out over time, say in your dry house- that can stiffen the spine some-
if you have a spine tester just recheck them.
but Moeboe knows his stuff- get a video to him

[Longtoke]

I have had the exact same thing happen to me but left tail. I think the trouble for me was I had started plucking the string.

[DanielB89]

I have had this same thing happen to me several times.  The problem?  Arrows were way too stiff and if I didn't do EVERYTHING right they would shoot perfect.  If I did short draw at all they would shot pretty stiff.  I think a good sign is how are you always missing?  Weak or stiff?  I have found that a bareshaft will lie.  They will show weak, but actually be stiff.  

search for a thread called, "perfectly stiff".

[MnFn]

I was going to mention what Daniel said. It happened to me as well.

[A Lex]

I got it sorted.

First of all though, thank you to ALL who have responded with advice and suggestions. I really appreciate it, and I love the combined experience and the passion that is freely shared here. Thank goodness for Tradgang.

Arnie, thank you so much for your wisdom and your willingness to help. You have helped me immensely in the past. And yes, you are right; I am usually the major problem when things go pear shaped, thanks for the gentle reminder.

I had been pondering my stiff arrow problem whenever I had a quiet moment at work today, and later this afternoon while welding up the boss’s dad’s trailer, I had that “ah-ha” moment. I re-called I had been playing with string silencers. I had added a smaller wool puff at the quarter points. I had forgotten all about that, too tired, heaps on, brain fade, getting old etc I guess.

As soon as I got home I put my string silencers back to how they were and what-do-you-know, perfect bullet holes in the paper, at 6 feet and 30 feet, and every 3 feet between.

Makes perfect sense, more weight on the string equals less push, which makes the arrow show stiff.

Couldn’t figure it out on the day. The more I tried the worse it seemed.

Oh well, they say the best experience is bought experience.

Some days getting older sucks though.

Thank you all again for your time and your help.

Lex

[Walt Francis]

Me thinks, you are over thinking everything.

[Burnsie]

Wow, how much do you think the silencers weighed?
Would not have thought they would have created that big of a difference.

[David Mitchell]

Originally posted by Walt Francis:
Me thinks, you are over thinking everything.

Walt, that seems to happen a lot in these technological days.  Old timers never obsessed so much about stuff.   :rolleyes:

[A Lex]

Walt, I think you're right onto it. I'll plead guilty to that.  

Burnsie, The extra silencer probably didn't weigh enough mess things up. I reckon I managed to do that bit all by myself.    

Just had one of those bad days I guess  :p

Ah well, live and learn hey?

All the best
Lex