FOC % question

[NE Texas Bowhunter]

I am in process of having my longbow built by Kegan McCabe, and while waiting,I figure I will go ahead and order my arrows. Bow will be 64" long, 45 lbs @ 30". Not exactly sure of my true draw length as I am coming over from shooting a training wheel bow with mechanical release at 29.5". I am full aware I will need to bare shaft tune, but I was curious as to what FOC% range you guys shoot for when setting up hunting arrows? I have decided to go with a GT Traditional XT 400 spine @ 9.3 gpi. Trying to decide between 125 gr and 150 gr tip and playing with insert weights to achieve the FOC% that would be good for hunting whitetail deer. Any info on FOC would be much appreciated. Again, I'm new to traditional archery, so go easy on me guys....lol. Thanks.

There are many folks (me included) who think higher FOC is a good thing.

I also believe a well tuned arrow is paramount, and trumps almost anything else.

My current FMJ arrows are at 18.7%FOC.

I used to shoot GT XT Hunters (black shafts), which were about 22%FOC. These arrows were near full length, had a 100gr brass insert and 150gr point/broadhead, and that was for a 50#draw weight.

Also, if your DL is less than 30" (which it likely will be if your wheel bow DL was 29.5), then you will have a tad less than 45# actual draw weight. It may be very tough to get those .400 spine shafts to tune for that low of a draw weight???

Bisch

[Longtoke]

the fact that carbons are so light means that you will have a decent amount of foc no matter what you choose. about 25% is really easy to get with just a 250 grain point and a fairly long shaft. and will probably net you a 530ish grain arrow.


the easiest way to get the most foc IMO is to tune to a 300 grain point and use the shortest arrow you can.

[Orion]

Agree that you're probably going to lose some draw length and a few pounds of draw weight and that .400s are likely going to be too stiff.  

Might want to consider getting a test pack or borrow a lighter spined shaft or two from a friend before investing in a dozen.  I think .500s will work better.

[Terry Green]

All carbons are NOT light, now THAT is a FACT...that is a myth that's been perpetuated for over a decade.

My Arrow Dynamic Trads with the same Zwickey head weigh 85 grains more than my aluminums I shot before I switched....they are 29 inches BOP and weigh 585 grains.  All my arrows FOC run from 18 to 22% depending on the head I'm using.

So...please don't make blanket mythical statements as there are other carbons that are not light either.

This one was no different on FOC.....

       

  Shoot what ever flies the best, most consistent and most accurate and you will have no problem with whitetail.

[Longtoke]

oh didnt mean to irk anyone with my comments, sorry, I should have said most carbons are pretty light.

[NE Texas Bowhunter]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Yall are awesome. My bow's riser will be cut to center, will that make any bearings on spine selection? Difference in .400 and .500? Again, thanks for helping a newby out.

[John146]

What Bisch said will get you where you need to be. I think you will have to go to .500 spine with under 45 pounds.

I shoot Gold Tips and run 21% FOC. I shoot 175gr. broad heads and a 50 gr. brass insert. Go to the lower weight broadhead and brass insert if the heavier broadhead makes you use an aluminum insert. The brass insert can take the impact of a bone hit much better than aluminum.

This combo has worked great for me. I noticed it when I went from 57 pounds down to 47 pounds because of shoulder issues. I get penetration that is substantial on shoulder hits with a 485 grain arrow and 21% FOC. Broke through both shoulder blades last year on a doe with a 3 blade broad head. 2 blade would have probably penetrated even better but I will take that all day long.

Also, a great benefit of Extreme FOC is in windy situations my arrows do not drift as much. I think the heavy front end pulls the arrow toward the target a lot better from my experience.

[dbd870]

I draw 28" and shoot 45# bows. I tried 400's with a couple of different bows and it was not going to happen. I use 500's cut at 30.5". Where to bow is cut to will make somewhat of a difference but as you will likely be a pound or 2 under 45# they are just going to be too stiff. .400, .500 is the amount of deflection with the arrow supported on rests a set distance apart with a weight of around 2# hung on it. There are a couple of different setups - an older and a newer.

[damascusdave]

How long do you think you will need to shoot before your form is consistent enough to tune arrows?

DDave

[crazynate]

I thought this sight was about respecting each other and being able to give your opinion. One sword sharpens another. Nobody should have to apologize for saying carbons are light nor should they be attacked for it. Carbons are super light. They do have heavier ones if thats what you want. If it was me Id wait to get the bow and wait till your form is developed better before you waste money on arrows that might not work the best. Congrats on your new nbow.

[smokin joe]

I have recently made the commitment to move down in draw weight to the lo 40s due to multiple shoulder surgeries.

But even in the low 40s I wanted a fairly high FOC hunting arrow to maximize penetration and performance.

I found a pretty light 400 spine shaft, the GT Velocity. After making up an arrow that is tuned at 30" long, I have 255 grains up front (125 gr insert, 125 head, and 5 gr carbon collar). That results in a 530 gr arrow that is over 20% FOC. If I had not started with a light shaft, I would have not ended up with as much FOC, and the arrow would have been heavier.

I also tuned a fairly standard weight 500 shaft for the same bow that turned out to be 495 gr.

...and I am thinking of playing a bit with 600 spine to see if I can get an arrow down to about 9.5 grains per pound of draw weight for 3-D shooting.

It all depends on what you are trying to achieve with your formula of shaft/fletch/wrap/nock/insert/etc. Is overall arrow weight most important, or FOC, or the head weight you like to use, etc.?

I agree that great arrow flight is of primary importance. It is the arrow that hits the target and does the killing.

By the way, I would bet that your draw length will shrink a bit with a trad bow, probably by a half inch or so.

[katman]

crazynate, Terry was correcting a blanket statement made, don't see any disrespect in his post.

NETB, I shoot for >20% foc with a build, usually gives good overall weight.

With 125-150 gr tips I also feel the 500 spine is a good start and probably need another 50 gr insert.

Also as Dave alluded to you will probably need to re tune once your form improves and steadies shooting traditional. So start with some GT blems from Big Jim to keep initial costs down and work on form for a while.

The arrow dynamics Terry mentioned are very easy to tune for trad and I think the trad light would work for you.

[kenneth butler]

I agree with Bisch and others. The 400's will b e stiff unless you want up around 300 grains up front. 500 in GT or similar will allow you to get plenty FOC Especially if you end up needing to shorten them any.      Ken

[Terry Green]

Some confuse opinion with fact....as the poster said "the fact that carbons are so light"....that is not an opinion nor a fact, that's a false statement.  

To let these type of false statements stand is a disservice to the bowhunting community. Not disrespecting anyone, but wont let the bowhunting community be disrespected by false statements.

Now there's a claim that they are 'super light'.              

[NE Texas Bowhunter]

Terry Green, I am the Poster of thread and I never said anything to that effect. I have great understanding of arrows, their weights and spines, especially carbon. I'm not new to archery, just new to traditional equipment and the phenomenon known as Archers Paradox. I appreciate everyone's input, and will heed the advice and go with the .500 to start with. I do realize I will have to relearn form to adjust to traditional equipment, that's why I went with a lighter poundage bow. Also, unlike most compound shooters, I use a back tension release, and hope it helps a tad with the transition. Thanks everyone for the input, it would be tough figuring all of this out without yall.

[smokin joe]

NE Texas:
I would suggest that you start with a moderate FOC for your first set of trad arrows. Something around 12% to 15% FOC would give you a very good arrow. You might also shoot for around 10 to 12 grains per pound of draw weight. Those characteristics would give you an arrow that you can hunt with, and that you can rely on for a very long time.

Later, after you are used to trad equipment, getting out of the moderate range will be easier. Then you can experiment with light arrows in the 8 GPP range, or try to get up over 20% FOC.

You are wise to go down to a more moderate draw weight in changing to a trad bow. Starting with a moderate arrow has advantages too.

[Terry Green]

John...my comments were not nor never directed at you.

My comments were to the fallacy of continual mythical statements about carbon arrows being light...notice the posters all said all carbons are light.  FALSE.

Now someone wants to push the narrative that carbon fibers are lighter than aluminum.... what does that have to do with the weight of arrows?  Has nothing to do with carbon arrows.  Again, my aluminum arrows are lighter than my carbons....AND, my 55-60 cedars are as well.  Find out for yourself about carbon arrows and stop parroting what you've heard by someone else.

Again, my 29 inch BOP arrows with a Zwickey Delta weight 585 grains....that proves you are wrong about light or super light.  

Stating all carbons are 'so light' is Fake News and the perpetuation of such has to stop.  Its a disservice to the sport and to fellow bowhunters.

[NE Texas Bowhunter]

I agree. The way I see it is, a 10 gpi carbon weighs the same as a 10 gpi aluminum. Carbons are what I am used to and plan to shoot. Thanks everyone for the valuable information on FOC and dynamic spine. Yall rock!

[Friend]

With 400 gns up front, my total shaft weight was 611 gns.

Readily observed appreaciable penetration gains when reaching 25% EFOC.

Enjoy shooting 30% plus Ultra EFOC, however the game I typically pursue don't reqiure hi FOC and the overly excessive target wear is not personally warranted. ex...shot an 18 in 1 Rhinehart, guarenteed for a year to remnants in less than 6 weeks...shot out a Morrell Outdoor Range with field points in 3 months....shot thru an expensive Eagle layered target with field tips in three days and compeletely thru a Mckensie BH target in 2 days.