Question on HHA longbow arrow shelf

[Learner]

I'm in the process of reading T.J. Conrads' "The Traditional Bowhunter's Handbook".  In the section where he talks about shooting off the shelf, he states that "you will want a radiused shelf on your bow" (both recurve and longbow).

After reading this, I realized that my Big 5, and all other HHA bows which I've seen, come with flat shelves.

If a radiused shelf is indeed better, then does anyone know why HHA longbows do not have them?

Also, how does having a flat shelf affect arrow nocking point height?

Thank you,
Frank

[Orion]

I still have one Hill longbow.  It has a slight radius.

A radiused shelf reduces contact with the arrow, which some feel gives a tad better arrow clearance/arrow flight, but it's not mandatory.  When the arrow is shot, it ceases to touch the shelf or side plate, regardless of how they're configured.

If you want the equivalent of a radiused shelf put a small piece of leather, match stick, etc., under the leather shelf material.

Most longbow arrow shelfs are fit with a piece of leather about half as long as the shelf.  This forms sort of a crown, not a true radius, for the arrow to rest on.  It works fine. Really no need to radius the shelf. Takes extra time to do, and time is money to a bow builder, though I'm sure Craig would radius the shelf for you if you specified it in placing an order.

[David Mitchell]

None of my Hill style longbows have radiused shelves and I don't have any problem with it.  I respect T. J. a lot but disagree on this one.

[centaur]

Originally posted by David Mitchell:
None of my Hill style longbows have radiused shelves and I don't have any problem with it.  I respect T. J. a lot but disagree on this one.

Yep.
The Hill style bow that is my go to, a Berry Heritage, has no shelf at all, and is a great bow. I have 3 Hills and 3 Berrys, none of them have radiused shelves.

[McDave]

i have a fairly new Hill that has a flat shelf.  One of the points raised by Learner that is interesting to me is the effect of a flat shelf on nock point height.  With a radiused shelf, as you raise the nock point, you incrementally move the contact point forward on the shelf.  With a flat shelf, the contact point is either flat on the shelf or on the back or front edge of the shelf, depending on the height of the nock point.  Ideally, the contact point would be directly above the pressure point on the grip, which for an ASL would be near the back edge of the shelf.  Since I shoot 3 under, which generally requires a higher nock point, my contact point is on the front edge of the shelf pad.  I suppose this might be another reason why you shouldn't shoot an ASL 3 under, but I'm not going to change my whole style of shooting for one bow that I don't shoot that often anyway.  Hill shelfs are fairly narrow front to back, so maybe the difference between the arrow resting on the front or back edge of the shelf isn't that significant, but I would imagine that on some recurves, where the shelf might be several inches long, it would be better to have a radiused shelf so there wouldn't be such a dramatic change when the contact point shifts.  Or, as was suggested, just put something under the shelf rest where you want the contact point to be.

[danshao]

My ilf recurve has the same length of crowned flat shelf as my hill style bow. Doesn't seem to bother me.

I do notice on the left edge (right handed) of the furniture felt pad there's often some feather wear, for my recurve. I had to thin the furniture pad down a little on the left edge to make the contact area narrower. For longbows you get a narrow shelf for free.

The leather on the shelf will soon tell you your contact point.  With a Hill style bow with a flat shelf, when you lift the arrow up 1/8", you will move the contact point to the forward part of bow, in line with the lams, that is where the action is.  With a reverse riser the hand is in contact with lams, reducing any torque the bow hand can create.  If your contact point with a standard Hill is on the belly side of the shelf, you may have an issue.  If it is on the forward half, you probably do not have an issue.

The leather on the shelf will soon tell you your contact point.  With a Hill style bow with a flat shelf, when you lift the arrow up 1/8", you will move the contact point to the forward part of bow, in line with the lams, that is where the action is.  With a reverse riser the hand is in contact with lams, reducing any torque the bow hand can create.  If your contact point with a standard Hill is on the belly side of the shelf, you may have an issue.  If it is on the forward half, you probably do not have an issue.