What are the signs...

[Archie]

Scenario:

You're sitting in a tree stand on public land in Ohio where you don't usually see many other hunters.  A guy shows up in the woods, obviously hunting, with a traditional bow in hand.  From where you are, you can see everything this guy does all morning.

Let's just say... You know he's deer hunting, because that's all that's permitted right now in these woods.  You also can tell that he's trying hard, so you know he's not just fooling around.  And his clothing and equipment are sufficient for the job.

Question:.
What would be the signs that this guy...
1.  Has no idea what he's doing.
2.  Is an experienced and knowledgeable traditional bowhunter?

He might be walking around, he might get in a tree... But what would be signs that you might see in this well-meaning fellow that tell you whether he's good or not?

[Orion]

If he's any good, he would see you in about five minutes.  

How do you know he's trying hard?  If he's walking around in front or you for most of the morning, he doesn't know what he's doing.  If he's in a tree stand, see my first sentence.

If he's an experienced bow hunter, he would see you in your tree and, given that you were there first, he would vacate the area.  

What you've described to this point is a novice.

[Archie]

The gist of the question is, what are the qualities that you can see in a hunter when he's not aware he's being observed.

[fnshtr]

When he moves in so slow that you don't see him until he's real close. You didn't hear him either. He moves so slow and stays in the shadows, then disappears as he sees you and leaves the area.

[fnshtr]

OTOH... I once had a "hunter" come up a ridge, pass directly under me while I sat in a hang on stand. He had camo pants and jacket on, a grunt tube hanging from around his neck, and carrying a recurve. He just strolled up the ridge, stopping about 10 yards in front of me where he proceeded to kick leaves around and blow his call every few seconds.

He never stopped moving. Turning one direction, then another, all the while blowing that grunt tube over and over again. I actually started laughing, trying not to make noise. The limbs around me were shaking up and down from my "quiet" laughing.

True story. He stood in one spot and made a racket for about 20 minutes before ambling off.

[BrushWolf]

I would say. Does he sit still? Does he make excessive noises.  Do they look like there in a good spot. Trails,food sources.ect Does it look as if there being attentive. Kind of all the things I tell the kids when we go.

[Archie]

This thread was spawned by my memory of my first time out deer hunting.  I had no idea what I was doing, and after bumbling around trying to put up a portable stand, climbing down to take a leak, blah blah blah, when the sun came up I realized that there was a guy in a tree stand about 75 yards away from me who had watched the whole fiasco.  That was in 1997... if it had been today,  it would have probably gone viral on YouTube.  Fast forward to today, and I'm still not a very good deer hunter.  I don't have the time to invest in it at this stage of my life.  But I was wondering what someone would think of me if they saw me today, and it got me thinking that the comments of some experienced TGers might help us novices out.

[Orion]

OK, I think I'll stand with my first post.

If the person is a good hunter, you really won't have much chance to observe him. You may not even know he is/was there.  He'll be moving quietly and slowly, and will likely notice you and leave.

Trying to describe a good hunter would take pages, even a book.  I will say this though.  Becoming a good hunter takes a lot of time, study, commitment, effort, including time in the woods to understand his quarry and the environment in which it lives, and to develop the knowledge of and skill with the tools of the trade.

Most good hunters are willing to share information, so finding a good hunter to serve as a mentor can help shorten the learning curve. Reading seems to be a lost art, but there's also a plethora of good information in books and magazines written by good traditional bowhunters.

Hmmmmm.  I seem to be scaling a soapbox.  Think it's time I quit pontificating.

Good luck.  Just keep at it.

[fnshtr]

In sports, like basketball, athletes are said to "get in the zone", referring to an intense focus on all aspects of the game. I feel the same is true for the experienced hunter. We have to "slow down" and immerse ourselves in our surroundings. We have such fast-paced lives, "must be by X time", must "be to work at such and such time, meals, etc.

When we enter the woods, we have a difficult time adapting our busy schedule to an environment where there is no "hard and fast" time schedule. We have a tendency to try to force encounters with game, ON OUR SCHEDULE! It just doesn't work that way... at least not very often. It's one thing to stumble upon game, it happens, but not often, but a good hunter blends in, not just with camouflage, but with natures "schedule".

I love it when I get "in the zone". Squirrels scamper by and pay me no more attention than the turkey that feeds through the same stand of oaks. The novice hunter approaches hunting like every other pursuit in life, as if he is in total control of the outcome. Succumb to the natural world, immerse yourself in it, become one with it and see it like never before. Take the opportunities provided, and be thankful for it.

One public piece near here, the first ravine from the parking lot, it use to have water flowing in it and even had a pond. Field tiles changed the water flow, now it has tree stands. Some years there are six or seven tree stands in a 150 yard span, back and forth up the ravine, complete with cameras and stinky pads. Each set up is a different hunter. Yes, that puts them all closer together than many deer that i have shot. Sometimes, like most weekend mornings, they are all there.  Talk to them and they will all tell you that they are experts and if you have a longbow, you are not. So what goes on in the head of the guy that has the first tree stand, when he sits there and watches four five other guys walk past him up the ravine, they all go up the one trail right from the parking area up the center of the ravine.  Reminds me, last year, in a picked bean field a kid saw three deer clear across the field about three hundred yards.  He went into sneaky stalking mode, right up the middle of the field and straight at the deer.  They stayed around until he stooped and began drawing his cp.  While watching with binos, I could see that he violently shaking. The deer then left, he had closed the three hundred yard gap to about one hundred and fifty yards and was ready to try a shot.

I have a 45 pound recurve, if I continue to run into that kid with his cheap old two wheeler, I may have to get to know him and try to turn him into a trad hunter.

[toddster]

You must be describing me, ha-ha.  No, when I see a person walking in the hunting woods, I can usually tell in a minute or two what they are doing.  If the person is taking there time, looking at the ground intently usually looking for blood trail.  If they move slow and stop looking for sign, stalking.  If they are just walking unaware then they are either scouting (missing all around them) or going straight to the stand.  the one's that stop and look at sign or study it, are the ones who pretty much know what they are doing.  Also, ones with earth tone or ASAT/Predator clothes, know what is going on.

[ChuckC]

Skipped ahead.   If he has any experience you would see him move slowly, infrequently, stopping against a tree or in the shade not in the open or in the sun.  He would be looking more than walking, unless he was scouting  I often carry my bow and some skwerl arrows while scouting.  Even then.... an experienced bow hunter, especially a trad bow hunter, moves in certain ways, scouting, hunting or even just joy walking.

[longbow fanatic 1]

Experience knowledgeable hunter qualities:
1) Like others have said, if they're walking very slowly to their tree stand, stopping to listen and observe. When I say walking slowly, I mean very slowly. Taking a step forward while quietly placing their foot down and easing their body weight onto the next step to prevent the noise of walking.
2) The hunter chose to hunt from a tree that breaks up his silhouette or turns his tree stand to the back side of the tree from where the expected deer will arrive.
3) The hunter moves slowly in the stand, always turning their head slowly first in all directions to check the area for deer before standing or sitting.
4) The hunter has placed their stand on an active deer trail(s) with terrain features like pinch points, saddles, edge features, attention to slight elevation changes, which can mean the difference on being in the "right" spot. If you are seeing the experienced hunter here, and you're not an experience hunter, you have most likely blindly placed your stand in a very good location.
5) Hunter uses fall arrest harness while tree stand hunting and if he/she is a good hunter, you should not hear them climbing into and out of their tree stand.
6) Hunter approaches his/her stand from different directions and access points depending on the wind.

Inexperienced hunter qualities:
1) Hunter walks to his stand like he's on a leisurely walk in the park.
2) Hunter has an arrow nocked for no apparent reason while walking to his stand (no deer around).
3) Hunter has placed their stand in an area that is clearly unproductive. I.E. No active deer trails, food sources...
4) Hunter stands up or sits down quickly when he/she hears noises.
5) Hunter makes excessive noises while in the stand.
6) Hunter blows a grunt tube like he's calling ducks.

[Mint]

On a few spots where I hunt I don't walk slowly to my stand but walk at a pretty good clip. In those areas of suburban hunting all the landscapers drop off branch clippings etc in the woodlot. The deer are use to them and ignore them for the most part. You try walking in quietly on those cornflake leaves and every deer will be out of there.

I look to see if the hunter has the right approach to his stand based on the area and wind. Is he walking across the woods or using the many mountain bike trails to get to his stand even though it is a longer walk in.

Is he climbing the tree quietly and sitting still?

What time did he get in the stand or leave the stand?

How is his set up for the wind?

Here is a real life example of the ultimate beginner.  A 19 year old kid gets his hunting safety card because he wants to shoot birds with his buddies. He sees a yard sale with a thirty year old compound complete with arrows and a three point Bear tree stand. Buys the works for $50.  He figured out how to shoot it one day.  Then a month later was riding around looking for a place to hunt deer on public land, sees a large buck that normally would have been two miles away, chasing does.  Grabs his stuff, finds the first tree that he can climb at the first tree edge across a small field from his rusty little pickup, hangs his three point Bear tree stand for the first time and sits there easily visible from the road.  15 minutes later that big buck comes around the point and stops ten feet from his 6 foot high perch. He shoot it with one of those old arrows.  The buck runs straight for the kids pick up and drops 50 yards from the road.  True story.

[two4hooking]

Well you know around here a bunch of guys I see in the woods maybe once or twice during the season.....  I'm sure they look down at me from 25 feet up wearing wools and no camo, sneaking around on the ground, coming in at daylight instead of before light, in bean boots, with a back quiver and carrying this white bamboo longbow even during gun season and say to themselves...."what is this stupid fool doing".  

Sometimes that changes when I come back in an hour dragging a deer by them though.  

Usually though I see them first and they have no clue I am there.

When my butter white bow comes, I am sure they will be going ballistic about it.  They always need an excuse for why they are not getting 'the big one' coming by them.