Flemish Twist vs. Endless Loop

[DKI]

I recently got into traditional archery and admit that I lack "skills"! I bought a Toelke Pika which came equipped with an endless loop string.  I ordered a Dwyer Endeavor which arrived Friday and came equipped with a Flemish twist string.  While attempting to increase the brace height on the Endeavor this evening I had some issues and am now concerned that I  may have damaged the string in the process of twisted and then untwisted it.  I twisted the string in the same manner that I did when adjusting the brace height on the Pika but the results were not the same.

I twisted the string clockwise from the top leaving the string on the grooves on the bottom limb.  This is the method I used on the Pika and worked fine.  

I know nothing about strings other than what I have read on the internet but I am thinking that I would like to replace the Flemish twist string with an endless loop string.  Are there any negatives from installing the endless loop string?  Are the strings available from 3Rivers good or are there better options available?  

Also, are there any Endeavor owners out there with a suggested brace height?

Any assistance would be appreciated!

[shag08]

Lots of great string makers here who I'm sure will chime in. Their strings are far better than the strings 3rivers carries.

I greatly prefer a Flemish twist string, myself. Just twist it up in the direction it's already twisted to increase brace height.

[Pointer]

I've never been able to tell the difference between them in how my bows shoot or how they feel. I learned to make Flemish way back when and so that's what I use on all my bows.

It all depends on which way ithe Flemish string was twisted when it was built. Twist one direction, and the string will get shorter, increasing your brace height. Twist the other direction, and the string will get longer, decreasing your brace height!

Flemish twist strings are designed to have twist. Endless loop, usually not so much.

As far as which is better, if they are both well built, it boils down to personal preference!

Bisch

[Orion]

What Bisch said.  Unless you untwisted the flemish string so much that it began to come apart, you didn't damage it.  Not sure what issues you had, but take another shot at it. Keep in mind, too, that a new string will stretch a bit until it is shot in.

[McDave]

Dan Toelke supplies all of his bows with endless strings.  Most other bowyers supply them with Flemish twist strings.  Toelke makes great bows, so do many of the other bowyers.  Many people who get beyond the surface of traditional make their own Flemish strings.  I don't know of any who make their own endless strings, probably because of the equipment required.  I can't really see much advantage one way or the other.

The ideal endless string will be made the right length so few if any twists are required.  A Flemish string is held together by it's twists, although it is possible to twist it up too much which will reduce the life and efficiency of the string.  It is normal to twist and untwist Flemish strings until you get the length you want.

[nineworlds9]

LOL I heard a rumor from a little birdie Dan may be switching to flemish someday...  I guess we'll have to see?

I personally adjust my strings from the bottom.  I think most people do it this way?  You must pay mind how the string was constructed.  

Too many twists will make a string louder and less stable.  On Flemish you can also untwist it too much, if the end bundles start to unravel obviously it's time to stop!  LOL

I prefer a padded loop Flemish, they are more pleasant to shoot to me vs an endless loop, and look nicer.  I just have no need or desire for endless strings.  They work and a well made one will be quiet and quick but like Dave mentioned Flemish are way easier to build.

[SteveB]

It takes a lot of skill to make a flemish as exact as what an endless can be made. If both are well made, it boils down to aesthetics and tools needed. An endless jig can be made by a DIYer with stock parts from a hardware store for well under $50.

[bucknut]

I have a Buddy that has a quite large string business and he can knock out an endless in probably a quarter of the time of a flemish. (He has several machines running all day) So from a producers stand point I can see why they would prefer them. I would also say there is less initial stretch in a well made endless. I just like the aesthetics of a flemish and the fact that I can twist one up myself.

[DKI]

Well, I screwed up.  In my excitement to shoot my bow on Friday, I did not open the plastic bag which included my receipt and instructions on setting the brace height. I took the time to review the included paperwork today (a day too late).  I will be ordering a new string from the Dwyers in the morning and next time I will take the time to read the instructions before I try to make adjustments.  Patience is not my strong suit.  Totally my mistake.  

Thank you all for the replies!

[bucknut]

I guess I'm still a little confused on how you screwed it up??

[tzolk]

I really like those endless loop strings Dan and Jared make. Pretty good quality and super light. Too light for my current arrow tune in fact. It spits the arrow out a bit harder than the custom Flemish I use made from Fury.

[Bud B.]

A lefty makes a flemish string one way and a righty the opposite. You have to look at the twists to ensure you are twisting it the correct way to either shorten or lengthen.

I prefer flemish.

[Rob DiStefano]

as long as a string is properly designed, with good materials and workmanship, and proper strand count, with a proper diameter center serving for yer arrow's nocks, the loops are sized well for yer bow's limb nocks, and well waxed to a good proper burnished in length that will yield an acceptable brace height for the bow in question, then whether endless or flemish don't matter at all.

[The Whittler]

2nd what Bucknut said.

[YosemiteSam]

I'm a bit confused why strings get so much attention.  I must be missing something.  I twist up my own using the method Clay Hayes posted (rolled on my pant legs) or just buy a stock string in fast flight for my production recurves.  I'll probably buy fast flight material once I wear out my recurve strings & twist up my own for those, too.  

I'd think an endless loop might stretch less (guessing) but that would only really matter on a compound where you need a bow press to make adjustments.

What am I missing?

[LBR]

I make and shoot both, depending on my mood.  A properly made endless string will have twists in it.  Reason being is that if it doesn't the strands will separate at release, which adds noise and reduces stability.

As others have said, equally well made there's not a lot of difference.  You generally have a bit more adjustability with Flemish, and before adding silencers Flemish is usually a bit quieter.  Endless is easier for most to make to exact lengths, and you can't damage it by untwisting too much.  Either one takes me about the same amount of time to make (by hand--that's how I make them).

There's a FAQ page on my site that might help answer some questions.

Chad