Nock low and tiller

[AndreasLundin]

I am currently tuning a new bow, a Border Black Douglas #58 @ 28" and I pull 29". I am shooting .250 spine black eagle rampage with three feathers and 330 grain up front.

I currently have a nocking point of 7/16" and I thought this was good as I bareshaft with fletched arrows however looking at slow motion video I noticed that the arrow seems to fly pretty well for the first few meters than turn nock low and correct itself a bit. Still shooting decent groups but I had quite a few shots where I noticed the arrow nock dip low.

What are you thoughts about following statements.

1. It could be tiller as bow is tillered for split and I shoot 3 under.
2. Too much finger pressure on long finger rather than index finger. (Feels like this is the case)
3. Keep raising the nock point higher.
4. Try to retard the lower limb by adding more silencers/wool.
5.Most likely issue is the Indian....highly likely.

Here is a video of a 20 m shot.
 http://s927.photobucket.com/user/andreaslundin/media/Bowhunting/20958E38-9602-4E33-A045-9049133B7052_zpsedyzl1cj.mp4.html

[Bud B.]

A you using two string nocking points? One above and one below the arrow nock?

[AndreasLundin]

Originally posted by Bud B.:
A you using two string nocking points? One above and one below the arrow nock?

Yes, two tied nocking points with enough gap not to get nock pinch.

[katman]

1) Can't adjust tiller
2) Would require a form change if that was it
3) Easiest to do and reversible
4) Why take performance out of bow when nock point position accounts for tiller variation.
5) Yep

Consistent bareshaft with perfect flight is not easy and requires impeccable form.

I would try upping nock point height a little at a time to get a nock high then back it down.

If its a target bow then ultimate tune is fun to pursue, if a hunting rig then see if field tip and broadheads fly same and good to go.

[AndreasLundin]

Originally posted by katman:
1) Can't adjust tiller
2) Would require a form change if that was it
3) Easiest to do and reversible
4) Why take performance out of bow when nock point position accounts for tiller variation.
5) Yep

Consistent bareshaft with perfect flight is not easy and requires impeccable form.

I would try upping nock point height a little at a time to get a nock high then back it down.

If its a target bow then ultimate tune is fun to pursue, if a hunting rig then see if field tip and broadheads fly same and good to go.

In regards to point 4. I am not sure that tiller (Preload) is the same as slow down one limb by adding weight. Tiller would still not change but the limbs would reach brace at the same time hence make the bow better tuned and more quiet.

I tried to find some information how to do this but could only find one reference of someone lowering both silencers on string and limbs to make it better tuned.

I will play around with nock height a bit more but don't really like the idea of a really high nocking point.

Ps. Its a hunting rig

I'd suggest not fretting over it and tune by bare shaft and arrow group tuning.  It's been the easiest and quickest way for me.  You'll get immediate feedback.  

Once you get your bare shafts and arrows grouping together, it'll be as good as it can get.

[AndreasLundin]

Originally posted by Jim Casto Jr:
I'd suggest not fretting over it and tune by bare shaft and arrow group tuning.  It's been the easiest and quickest way for me.  You'll get immediate feedback.  

Once you get your bare shafts and arrows grouping together, it'll be as good as it can get.

I agree and disagree as my arrows hit the same point but I can see bareshaft isn't perfect. I think my high FOC correct arrow flight a lot but arrow flight could be better for sure.

Here is a group, not bad for me at 20 m except the flyer. However I could see the bareshaft flying nock low both with eyes and video.

 http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad120/andreaslundin/Bowhunting/59CE41DF-A2B8-4DFB-A885-58FE0C777F3A_zpsmczzjaqg.jpg

My thoughts are, it doesn't matter about bare shaft flight as long as they group with your arrows.  You're not going to shoot bare shafts. Feathers correct those minor issues, like a nock low bare shaft flight.

IMO perfect bare shaft flight is not possible. I would also suggest for fine tuning, 20 meters will get to "close" to a perfect tune, but 30 meters will get you much closer.

[McDave]

7/16" is a fairly low nocking point for a split finger bow shot 3 under, or any traditional bow shot off the shelf.  You didn't mention if you were shooting off the shelf or a rest?  Bows using a rest sometimes take a lower nocking point.

I shoot 3 under, and have about 25 bows of different brands, some longbows, some recurves.  Some are tillered for 3 under, some for split.  All have been bare shaft tuned.  All are shot off the shelf.  Most of them have nock height of 5/8".  Some have nock height of 1/2", and a very few have nock height of 3/4".  I have bought some in the past that seemed to require a nock height of 7/8" or more, but I don't like that high of a nock height, so they didn't stay around long.

I have found that increasing the pressure on my index finger and decreasing pressure on my ring finger allows a lower nock height.  I have also found that different arrows may tune to a different nock height, even arrows with close to the same weight and the same spine designation.

[AndreasLundin]

Originally posted by McDave:
7/16" is a fairly low nocking point for a split finger bow shot 3 under, or any traditional bow shot off the shelf.  You didn't mention if you were shooting off the shelf or a rest?  Bows using a rest sometimes take a lower nocking point.

I shoot 3 under, and have about 25 bows of different brands, some longbows, some recurves.  Some are tillered for 3 under, some for split.  All have been bare shaft tuned.  All are shot off the shelf.  Most of them have nock height of 5/8".  Some have nock height of 1/2", and a very few have nock height of 3/4".  I have bought some in the past that seemed to require a nock height of 7/8" or more, but I don't like that high of a nock height, so they didn't stay around long.

I have found that increasing the pressure on my index finger and decreasing pressure on my ring finger allows a lower nock height.  I have also found that different arrows may tune to a different nock height, even arrows with close to the same weight and the same spine designation.

Went to the range today again and shot some more. Could get good bare shaft flight but needed to load up my index finger which felt unnatural. So increase the nocking point to 1/2" and that worked too. Think it is a bit high, especially for a Border but it shoots well so I will leave it as is. 3D shoot tomorrow and a week long hunt in two weeks. Thank for your opinions Tradgang'ers.

[mahantango]

I totally agree with what's been said above. imo, perfect bare shaft flight is just chasing your tail - you would have to have a release like a machine. Point of impact and grouping are what matter.
Also, I have never had a bow that works with a nock height less than 1/2", most are about  5/8" shooting three under.

That's interesting mahantango. I'm always puzzled by (what I consider) the high nocking points a lot of folks seem to prefer.  5/8" to 3/4" seems excessively high to me.  Every time I've tuned my bows, I usually end up at 3/8" high and never more than 1/2".  I've shot 3-under for the past 40 years.  I'll just continue to scratch my head--I guess.    

[McDave]

Originally posted by Jim Casto Jr:
That's interesting mahantango. I'm always puzzled by (what I consider) the high nocking points a lot of folks seem to prefer.  5/8" to 3/4" seems excessively high to me.  Every time I've tuned my bows, I usually end up at 3/8" high and never more than 1/2".  I've shot 3-under for the past 40 years.  I'll just continue to scratch my head--I guess.      

That's interesting, Jim.  I have a similar head-scratcher.  I've almost stopped giving anyone advice about arrow spine.  When someone comes on here asking about arrow spine, shooting a bow very similar to one I shoot, I tell them what works for me, and immediately 3-4 people chime in with recommendations way different from anything that would work for me.  As you said, I'll just continue to scratch my head, I guess.

[Rick Richard]

I recently had a similiar experience as yours. I had 300 grains up front and dropped back to 200 grains...problem resolved.