Bow design VS performance

[mark Willoughby]

Been throwing this idea around in my head and was wanting to know if any of you guys have actually done any chronograph test on lower # bows with a radical limb design " the hot rods" and how they perform against heavier weight bows? I guess what I'm getting at is can a 45 # bow with a set of some of the amazing limbs that's offered today shoot as hard and as fast as there not so radical counterparts with a higher poundage and have the same if not a touch more performance in a lighter package? What are your thoughts?

[LBR]

Lots of variables to consider.  A biggie is release--a good release will give you pretty much better everything, a bad one will cost you.  But, back to the topic...I'm no bowyer, but it's obvious to me shooting different designs that some are faster than others.  Some of the really radical ones may be a little faster than their counterparts...but the most radical I know of seem to be trading it out in durability, or lack thereof.

[Gundog68]

My Thunderstick III 42# outperforms a Martin ML 10 with 60# with the same arrow and same draw length.
A 50# Border Griffon has the same speed as the Thunderstick. I testest this some years ago. I have the data (gpp&fps) in my chrono backpack.

Btw: Can currently not find anything about Jim Reynolds and the thunderstick website.

[JR Williams]

Jim retired a year or so ago.

[mark Willoughby]

That's amazing that a 42# out performs a 60# and a testimate to the great bowyers today

[Jasper2]

The short answer is absolutely yes! You can drop weight with the hot rods and get better performance. A word of caution though....many of the speed bows can be a little less forgiving and therefore more difficult to shoot consistently so there may be a trade off.

[Sirius Black]

I agree with Jasper 2.

[smokin joe]

I had to move down in draw weight to make sure my artificial shoulder joint lasts as long as possible. I went from fairly conventional Bear TD bows in the low-to-mid 50s to hot-rod R/D Centaurs and a set of Border Hex-6 limbs for a Bear TD in the low 40s. These souped-up bows are indeed better performers. How long they last remains to be seen.

[McDave]

Clearly there are inherent performance differences in bow types.  The best designed straight limbed longbow will never shoot as fast, or even nearly as fast, as the best designed recurve of the same weight.  In the lower weight ranges, this could be compensated for by increasing the draw weight of the longbow.  However, as draw weights increase, arrow speed increases less and less with increased draw weight.  So for example, while the best 50# straight limbed longbow might shoot as fast as the best 40# recurve, it might be impossible to build a straight limbed longbow that will shoot as fast as the best 60# recurve.  My numbers are hypothetical and are only intended to illustrate a concept.

While the differences between straight limbed longbows and recurves are readily apparent to anyone who checks, I’m sure the same, although more subtle, differences exist in bow designs in between the extremes, for example, r/d longbows and moderately recurved bows.

As with life in general, there's no such thing as a free lunch.  With increased speed comes increased risk of damage, and more radical designs are less forgiving of form errors.

[Orion]

I don't have a chrono, but my 42# ACS and Morrison Shawnee longbows shoot the same arrows at what I perceive to be the same speeds as my 47-48# mild r/d one-piece longbows.

[ChuckC]

They sure can, even with not so hotshot limbs.... IF the arrow weight stays relative.  9gpp of bow weight and you should get fairly similar performance.  Some bows do even better

[mark Willoughby]

Great information

[Joe2Crow]

I have been thinking about this lately too.  I have a chrono coming soon and the first thing I want to see is how my TT recurve compares in speed to a couple of Jack Howard bows.  My TT has two sets of limbs, a 50# set and a 56# set and I have a 50# Gamemaster and a 56# Gamemaster Jet.  I suspect that the TT is going to turn out to be a little faster than these vintage bows even though they were considered fast for their time. Think it's going to be pretty close though.

[mark Willoughby]

Jeffery can you please post your findings to this thread?

[Stumpkiller]

Also has a lot to do with draw length.  A longer draw can work recurve tips and get more "zip" in that last bit of draw.  Some designs more than others.

[Gundog68]

A while back i owned a simple retail longbow for about 140$. It hat 42# and a lot of vibration (handshock). I trapped the limbs and the bow came out with 38# and less vibrations during the shot. I measured the speed bevore and after pimping the limbs. It was nearly the same. Later i owned the Thunderstick III wich is the fastest longbow i have. I can not shot it anymore (have more draw length now) but won some tournaments with it the days back. Currently i shot also as my main bow the Toelke Whip which is a fine bow, but it has not the speed the TS III has.

I did a lot of chrono measurements with a lot of bows the past 20 years.