Normal for feather to touch shelf?

[anatone hunter]

Was not sure how to title this, but here is what is happening. Maybe it is normal. I don't know.
I noticed after hundreds of shots that there was a very small amount of wear on the edge of the shelf. I use a very thin felt like material. (It is slick and quiet).
I put a small line of lipstick on that edge. After test shooting wood arrows of three different spine ratings, I noticed a very small, and I mean small, red stain on the very front edge of the hen feather that sits in the 7 o'clock position on all three spines.  That occurred with the wood 5 inch 3 fletch only. When I shot the same woods with a four inch, 4- 90 fletch there was no lipstick on the feathers at all. No stain either when I shot the 2016 aluminums with the 5 in three fletch I should note I shoot left handed and use right wing helical fletch.
Arrow fight is good as I spent lots of time tuning. I felt comfortable with my form during these tests. I shot enough to get a pretty good average and result.
Is this a normal thing to have some contact, or should there be none at all? Is this why some use a feather rest? Rotating the nock a thing to do.  Some feedback would be helpful.
Thanks folks

[McDave]

Feather contact with shelf is normal.  This is why we fletch with feathers when we are shooting off the shelf.  God, in His infinite wisdom, made feathers so they bend out of the way when they touch things like an arrow shelf.  The thing you have to worry about is quill contact with the shelf.  To determine if you have quill contact with the shelf, select one of your arrows with hopefully already worn feathers and trim them off with knife or scissors down to the quill.  Dab lipstick on the quill and see if you have any contact when you shoot it.  If so, rotate the nock.  If not, you are fine.  Save the trimmed arrow to use as a bare shaft later. It is better than a truly bare shaft because the weight of quills and glue better replicate the dynamic spine of a fletched arrow.

[anatone hunter]

I should have also stated that the bow is not quite cut to center on the riser. It is a longbow (hybrid type) so arrow sits out about an inch a the point. just being general here..

[McDave]

A hybrid longbow should be cut close enough to center than the arrow should not sit out an inch at the point.  Maybe 1/4”?

[anatone hunter]

Thanks McDave.
 Well, the contact is actually just at the very beginning of the quill. And I mean just barely.
I will do the test you recommend. If I still see that ever so slight contact, what change could I make.  Ha, maybe just stay with the 4 fletch or aluminums that had no contact.
I have spine tuned well, Nock position is still showing a very slight nock high at 6 feet but good at 12 and beyond.
Thanks

[anatone hunter]

The bow is Maddogs Mountaineer. it is more long bow than hybrid of sorts. I did cut the side in a bit but yes, if I eyeball the the string in limb center, the 28 inch arrow at point is a good inch out. I think there is plenty of meat to take more off if needed. I did talk to Mike about doing that and he said ok. I do not shot comp so I have no concerns about it meeting any regs of sorts.
What cha think?

[McDave]

If you have quill contact, you can:

Rotate the nock to eliminate it, or

Weaken the spine to move the nock away from the strike plate.  You could do this by selecting a weaker spined shaft, or by increasing the point weight.

Raising the nock point a little more may also help.  Don’t worry too much about a little nock high.  The feathers will correct it.

You could also try increasing your brace height a little.

[McDave]

The only regs I know of might limit you to a riser that is not cut past center.  As you said, you are still not cut to center.  I will leave it to you and Mike to determine what is safe to do with your bow.  It is certainly possible to tune a bow not cut to center, people do that with self bows all the time.  You just have to use weaker arrows than you would use with a bow cut to center.

[ChuckC]

The cut would have to be well past center to have the arrow point only 1/4" out from center.  That amount also changes with brace height.

There should be no need to reduce your riser thickness.

I wonder if you get contact with the longer feather cause it is almost to that point before it leaves the string.  The shorter feathers are not yet there and the nock end of the arrow begins to move away from the riser after leaving the string (paradox).   Also try just grinding the leading edge of those feathers smooth so wear is less, as is contact.  Keeps fingers from getting chewed up too if your grip is close to the arrow.

[anatone hunter]

I will try all of the above. I paper tuned for the best results with a given spine and point weight. Not sure how to rotate nock on the woodies, and the aluminum has already worked ok. And so has the 4 fletch woods.
But I will try experimenting with nocks by not glueing on when fletching.
Can one tape on a nock on wood and still be safe? Then I could rotate a bit as you suggest.

[anatone hunter]

Thanks for the help McDave I truly appreciate it. What is strange is that even though this bow is not cut to center at all, it shoots the stiffer of the 3 spined wood shafts I have the the best. I started with the recommended weaker spine. Bareshafting and paper tuning said no way. After going up 2 spine groups, things worked well, except for this little bit of contact I am asking about. Perhaps it is nothing more than brace height. I have played with that but not with the lipstick tuning bit. Still more fun checking to do.
Thanks much!

[McDave]

Really, a little bit of feather contact is normal.  Almost all of my arrows that have been used for a while show feather wear on that hen feather.  It’s only quill contact that causes arrow flight problems.  Either trimming back the leading edge, as Chuck suggests, or raising the brace height a little should take care of it.  It is a hassle to rotate nocks that have been glued on, and you can probably solve your problem without doing that.

[anatone hunter]

Hi Chuck,
Me thinks you are on to something. When arrow sits on rest the front of quill is only about a half away from rest. Maybe that is why the 4 fletch is better. And the nock position of the aluminum shafts is different than the woodies already.
And yes, after I fletch I use my Dremel  and smooth that quill down to a very smooth transition to the shaft.
I thank you for the assist!

[OkKeith]

John-

Just from my experience I agree with the advice of winding up the string and moving the brace height out a little. It could change the tuning some and you will probably need to run through your arrow choices again just to verify.

I also show a slight bit of feather wear on arrows after a while.

Good luck, have fun,

OkKeith

[Holm-Made]

You said the arrow flight is good and the wear/contact is very slight.  Sounds like a well tuned set up to me.  

As the arrow flexes upon release, that is where your 7:00 feather passes the shelf.  That is normal for a LH shooter.  Your rest will wear out first there and your 7:00 feather will also wear out first.   This is how it is on all of my bows/arrows too and it’s always been that way.  Chad

[Red Beastmaster]

My feathers make contact. Been doing it for a very long time too. Never really thought much about it.

It's a non issue.