Whats the diff between endless loop vs flemish strings?

[Matabele]

Hi all,

Hoping to order a new bow soon and was wondeirng what the practical differences are bewteen endless loop strings and well made flemish twist strings, assuming the same material like 10 strands of DF-97?

Any thoughts on this? Can they diff styles affect speed, shooting quietness etc?

[Lefty]

An endless loop can be the slightly better performer, while the flemish is general quieter.  However, a well built string of either type can be just as quiet and fast as the other type.  The key is well built.  I prefer flemish, but that is just personal preference having more to do with making them myself and appearance.

[Cherokee Scout]

I put endless loop dacron strings on my recurves because the are substantialy more quiet than flemish twist fast flight. They are a little slower, but they help eliminate the string slap on the limbs of the recurve bows.

[Dave Bulla]

The main difference is that if a string of either type has say 14 strands, the endless loop will only have 7 strands going around the loop but the flemish will have the full strength of all 14 strands.

A secondary difference is that the flemish string is very easy to adjust for length to change the brace hight of the bow.  Just unhook one end and give a few twists.  

I guess an endless string could be twisted too but you don't hear of it much.

So, in my mind, the flemish is stronger in the loops, easier to adjust adn some say quieter.

[donw]

generally speaking, a flemish has stronger end loops as you have the same number of strands around the ends of the bow as are in the string...(endless loop has only half the strands around the bow ends)

i've nothing but flemish for years and have had no problems with them.

IMO, they are indeed quieter,easier to make, easier to adjust brace heigth with, and may be disassembled and reassembled if need be to change string length.

actual performance? i don't know of any scientific data to support either as having an advantage, but there may well be.

[LBR]

Lefty nailed it.  Properly made, there's little if any difference in performance.  Look at some of the bows that have been tested to be the best performers on the market today--Adcock/A&H--why would they go to the trouble of all that work to make a better performer, then put a string on their bows that would slow it down?

Over the years I've had folks tell me this material was quieter, that one, etc.  In my experience, tuning has more to do with it than string material.  Most folks I've heard from have said a flemish string is noticeably quieter than an endless, but obviously there are exceptions.

Along with how the string is made, I've run across a few bows that just seemed to "like" one type string or material better than the other.

Personally, I don't care to ever shoot a dacron string again.  I don't like dealing with the stretch, creep, and extra hand shock compared to the low-stretch materials like Dynaflight '97 and 8125.  I'd still use them on my personal bows even if they were a little slower than dacron.

Speaking from personal experience, I get comments on a regular basis about how quiet my bows shoot.  Tune the bow without any silencers to find the "sweet spot" (where you have the least noise and vibration), then after you put the silencers on, tune the silencers.  Moving them up or down the string as little as an inch can make a big difference on some bows.  I use one set of cat whiskers--might be able to use less, I've just never tried it.  I get plenty of speed and a very quiet shot, so I'm not going to try to fix what's not broken.

I make my own, I can make either endless or flemish, and I have 4 different types of string material on hand--so it's not like I'm trying to be biased for one or the other.  I just use what works best for me.

Matabele, the only way you'll know for sure which you prefer is to try them both and see.  My bet is you won't find much if any difference in performance, and usually there will be more noise from an endless than flemish before you take any steps to silence them, especially if the loops are padded on the flemish.


Chad

[Matabele]

Thanks for all the replies and info gents, its appreciated!

Seems like I'll stick with Flemish twists then, have always prefered them but just wanted to make sure I wasnt missing out on something!

[SOS]

And if you need a string made for that bow, make sure you give Chad (LBR) - two posts up - a try.  Makes great strings plus has a good video out if you want to make your own.

[Naphtali]

Two follow-up questions:

Because the flemish string's end loops incorporate all fibers, does this mean that flemish string for 58-inch recurve is heavier than endless loop for same bow?

If YES, do weight and bulk at tips slow limbs' [spring] return? Is this where the "slightly slower" occurs?

[LBR]

Actually no, because an endless loop has all that serving forming the loops--that adds quite a bit of weight.  Weight added to the loops will have the least effect though.

I haven't tested it myself, but I've read and heard (from sources I trust) that the mass weight of the string will make a difference in speed, and the closer the weight is to the center, the more it will have an effect.  A friend of mine did some testing with a wheel bow several years ago, and found that just adding an extra brass nock set to the string slowed it down a couple fps.  

Also, if an endless string doesn't have some twist, slow-motion video has shown them spreading apart for a "parachute" effect, which slows them down.

Either way, I don't think it makes enough difference for 99.9% of us to notice.

Chad