instinctive at long range

[Bonebuster]

Yep... Magic!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by BLACK WOLF:
The beauty of aiming instinctively is that you learn to nearly empty your mind and completely focus on one spot and trust that your subconscious mind and body will accurately do what it needs to do to hit the bullseye...and when it happens...it's almost like magic        

Ray      

Very well stated.  Well, except the "magic" part.   :p

[BLACK WOLF]

[KSdan]

Good thread- appreciate your attempt to clarify meaning Ray- it makes sense. Also makes sense that the majority would probably do better with some aiming methodology for longer shots.

[pseman]

I am relatively new to trad shooting and so 30 yds is "long distance" shooting to me. I shoot instinctively(I think), I pick my spot, point my bow and let hand-eye-coordination take over. This works out to about 25 yds, but after that I aim the same way except the spot I focus on is above my intended target/bullseye. That spot gets further above the target as the distance grows. I still aim at my spot the same as if it were a 10 yard shot but the spot adjusts upward based on the distance.
All of this is moot when it comes to hunting. I will not take a shot past 25yds at this point because my accuracy is not as good as my ethics. However with time to practice on form I think I will one day extend my range past this point.

[42WLA]

PSEman,

That sounds like classic "Point of Aim". Focusing on the point instead of the X.

Some describe purely instintive as focusing on the X and nothing else.

To me Gap or Split Vision is just being more or less aware of the space (at the arrow point or at the target) between the X and the point and changing that space depending on where the arrow hits.

[BLACK WOLF]

42WLA,

pseman claims he is not looking at his arrow but a spot above the target.

What he is doing is aiming instinctively. He just found a different way of making sure he is adjusting for the longer distances.

He therefore maintains nearly the exact sight picture for every shot in regards to the spot he is focusing on and the references his subconscious is using to make the proper adjustments to the aim.

He's compensating for arrow trajectory by looking at a spot above the target.

Ray  

[pseman]

Exactly Black Wolf, I think you described it better than I did. I have found that when I shoot longer yardage, if I focus on the "X" that my left/right accuracy remains pretty good but I tend to shoot low. So common sense told me to aim at a spot above my intended target.

This works pretty good for me when my form is good. But being fairly new at the traditional game, my form is still very much a work in progress.

[James Wrenn]

I guess instictive is close to how I shoot.Being very farsighted I can't really use an arrow point or anything on the bow for reference consistantly.Really wish I could because as distances get farther being able to gap or use your point would be a much more consistant way of shooting.Just does not work for my eyes and the low anchor that I use.I will tell you this..when someone quits worry about not looking at the arrow and just uses what is stuck out there in front of them the best they can there shooting improves in almost every case.    jmo

[42WLA]

Originally posted by BLACK WOLF:
42WLA,

pseman claims he is not looking at his arrow but a spot above the target.

What he is doing is aiming instinctively. He just found a different way of making sure he is adjusting for the longer distances.

He therefore maintains nearly the exact sight picture for every shot in regards to the spot he is focusing on and the references his subconscious is using to make the proper adjustments to the aim.

He's compensating for arrow trajectory by looking at a spot above the target.

Ray        

Perhaps I should not have used the word "point". It is not the arrow I meant but a "point" downrange.

Point of aim vs. point of impact.

   

It seems everybody defines thing differently. I tend to go back to the early texts.

As a matter of fact. In the 1st editon of the Archer's Bible, Fred Bear explains the different shooting styles very clearly.

It's fun to argue about though.  

[42WLA]

[BLACK WOLF]

42WLA,

That's a great pic demonstrating Point of Aim.

Just for clarification...Point of Aim involves looking at the arrow tip and placing it on the Point of Aim that is predetermined for that particular distance which is different than what pseman is doing.

Ray  

[Terry Green]

Instinctive shooting is not limited to a certain yardage, or a single subconscious sight picture.

Sure, you can learn to shoot instinctive at long distances......just depends on how bad you want it.

[longbowguy]

I believe instinctive aiming can work very well out to fairly long ranges. By long I mean out to near the archer's point blank/ point on range. Near point blank range the tip of the arrow comes so nearly into the line of sight it is impractical and unwise to try to ignore it.

Some archers have short point on ranges, down to 30 yards and less. But a good many of us have long ones: 50, 60 and longer with a long draw and efficient tackle. With my longbows and 500 grain wooden arrows my range is 55 to 65 yards. With a recurve and 400 grain arrows it is over 70 yards, and I have heard of 90 yards for fellows who use carbon shafts. Under these circumstances there is little choice about shooting the short and middle ranges instinctively. Gaps may exceed 5 feet at 40 yards or so. The point of the arrow may cover a point 12 or so yards in front of the target. Your conscious mind cannot deal with that very effectively. But the subconcious can, with sufficient good practice.

Here in Northern California we often shoot open 3D and field archery to the full 80 yards of the field course. Half the targets may be 45 yards and more. Most folks gap shoot or use another system for at least the longer half, but not all do. And there are some who can shoot these events really well mostly by the instinctive method. There is one fellow I have shot with at two events this year. Hereabouts the top possible score is 924 and the compound pros go over 900 at a 42 target 2 arrow event with an 11 point spot. 500 is a good traditional tackle score and some top hands go over 600 even with a longbow and woodies and occasionally a point of aim shooter goes over 700 with a recurve.

The fellow I am thinking of shoots take down hunting recurves of around 50 pounds and aluminum hunting weight arrows. He shoots with the split finger hold, cants the bow and says he shoots purely instinctively except at 70 to 80 yards where his arrow tip is nearly on target. He doesn't even want to think or hear about gaps, for fear he will start to notice them in his sight picture.

In the two events I shot with him he went over 700 points and in the last he was over 750. During the second half of it he shot over 400. It was amazing to see and I was so jealous I could have spit. But upon reflection I am pleased and inspired to know that much more is possible than I have so far achieved.