Gap "appears" same at 15-40 yards??

[jdupre]

I have been giving gap shooting a good try the last month or so and I have noticed something that is interesting. The gap in inches below the target obviously gets smaller as you get further from the target. But, while shooting at my bag target at various ranges I noticed that the point of the arrow stayed at apparently the same spot below the target. The apparent size of the target diminishes so the bow has to be raised to point the arrow at the same relative distance below the target. In other words, if your point of aim is at a deer's foot at 15 yards, it would still be approximately at his foot at 40 yards.

Has anyone noticed this or am I seeing things?!

Joey

[SpikeMaster]

I've noticed the same thing. I don't shoot gap I shoot what Howard Hill called split vision, I concentrate on the spot I want to hit but I am aware of where the arrow is in my peripheral vision. I shoot a lot from 15-20 yards but every once in a while I'll back off to 30 yards or so. when I drop back to the longer distances I end up over shooting the target at first because I think I have to decrease my "gap". I end up shooting the same "gap" at the different distances. I don't even shoot light arrows, I'm shooting around 10-11 grains/pound.

[olddogrib]

Your maximum gap will be 1/2 of your "point on" distance.  The gap will be the same at 1/4ths and 3/4ths of that distance.  It's explained pretty well in Masters of the Barebow, basically just like a scope on a rifle with the arc of the arrow intersecting the line of sight twice.

[jdupre]

Thanks olddogrib. It makes sense now. At first the gap seemed to be too large to guess accurately, but it is starting to groove in and I don't have to think about it much.

I'm liking this aiming style more and more. When shooting "instinctively" there was always a nagging doubt about the shot going where I wanted it. Now, I have a definite reference and feel confident that if I practice good form the shot will go where I want.

Joey

[Todd Hathaway]

jdupre,
You are actually talking about something a little different than what oldogrib is talking about. You are talking more about a point of aim than a gap.

And you are right....if you put your arrow tip ON something at about 15 yards, as you walk back you can pretty much keep your point ON the same spot and still hit close to your mark.

This is because, as you mentioned, the overall sight picture gets smaller as you move back, thus making your gap get smaller as you back up even though your POINT OF AIM remains the SAME.

Obviously it doesn't work all the way back to your point on, but it's a great tool to know for hunting situations (ex: point on deer hoof as long as you are between 15 and 30 yards for example)

[jdupre]

Todd, I judge the amount of "daylight" between my arrow tip and the target but I am also aware of a point of aim when I practice shooting at a specific size target such as a foam deer or target bag. I guess my style would be closer to Hill's split vision style.

This system works so good because, if you think about it, you are using the arrow tip as a 60 yard sight pin(point on at 60 yards). Basically, what you are doing is holding your 60 yard pin low on all shots below 60 yards. GASP!! Howard HIll was a SIGHT SHOOTER!

Joey

[Todd Hathaway]

Exactly. The key difference between you and most gap shooters is that you are aware of what your arrow tip is "touching" where others just notice the amount of "daylight" between the tip and the target.

[jdupre]

I'm thinking that this could be used as an automatic range finder. Deer comes in at 10 yards- hold the point on his foot. Deer comes in at 25 yards- hold the point on his foot.

I just had a flash back to something Howard Hill said in one of his books. When asked how he shot targets so well, he said that he just imagined them to be different animals at different ranges." I see a bear on the target and I kill it." His gaps weren't in inches, they were relative to the height of the animal. If his gap on a deer was around the deer's foot, the gap for an elk might be the knee joint. For jackrabbits he might have to hold "2 jacks low".

I'm definitely going to explore this further.

Joey

[Todd Hathaway]

I'm glad you understand the significance of this. I've tried to explain many times to others that Howard Hill's aiming style was different than gap shooting. He had specific points he put his arrow tip on.

[Stagmitis]

Todd,

Hill placed his arrow on an "Imaginary" point...Doesnt sound too specific to me..

[BLACK WOLF]

Howard Hill's primary aiming techinique is called Split Vision.

Split Vision is a form of Gap shooting with some minor differences depending on what the archer is focusing on. In some cases it basically means the same thing.

In Howard's case he Split his focus between the target and a predetermined and often imaginary spot he would place his arrow point on within his periphial vision.

Some archer's Split their focus between the gap and the target while others split their focus between the target, the arrow tip and that predetermined spot.

As an archer masters this...it becomes more instinctive like and can often evolve into aiming totally instinctively if the archer is trying to achieve that and allows their subconscious to control the majority of the aiming process.

Ray  

[Todd Hathaway]

Stag,
Imaginary just means that a visible spot or object was not always available, and that said spot was different for every target. If someone tells you to put your finger on a spot in the middle of a piece of paper, you could do so with a fair amount of precision even though there was no visible spot there. Yet you still put your finger at a specific spot/location (ie, the MIDDLE of the paper).

So in other words, Howard placed his tip somewhere he thought was right with conscious knowledge of what the tip was touching in his peripheral vision. A pure gap shooter does not, but just sees the gap as a certain size.

[Todd Hathaway]

From a 1935 Popular Science article on Howard:

 "Hill uses the end of an arrow like the peep sight of a rifle. He draws halfway between the low draw of a target archer and his eye. At fifty yards, he shoots point-blank. Beyond that distance, he elevates his bow and really aims either at a fixed or an imaginary point upward and slightly to the right of his quarry. He keeps both eyes fixed on the game, and when, out of the corner of his eyes, he sees the arrow come in line with his “aiming point,” he lets fly."