Shelf or rest?

[jlbpa]

I was given a shakespeare recurve bow.  It came with a unique slighlty evalated rest mounted to the shelf.   Loaned my bow to someone I excepted to be righteous. He gave me the bow back missing the rest.  He said it fell off while shooting and appearantly thought nothing of it and kept shooting and marred up my shelf.  The rest was original and so unique I would have gone over and looked for the rest myself.  Now I need a new rest.   I have a Herters peception recurve bow the had no shelf so a rest was required.  Unfortunately the laminate splintered along the edge and the bow isn't usable any more.  But that was the smoothest shooting slick and quiet recurve I've ever shot.  I attributed that to the plastic stick-on rest.   Anybody else prefer stick on rests to Bear fur/leather or seal fur shelf rests

[NDTerminator]

I prefer elevated rests as they allow me to shoot either vanes or feathers. I use the T-300 rest with the Spine Point removed and replaced with a strip of adhesive backed rug rest. Provides quiet draw and great arrow flight.

That being said, I have two bows set up to shoot off the shelf with rug rests.  One requires it due to the small sight window, the other simply isn't designed to use an elevated rest and doesn't deliver good arrow flight with them...

[Shape Shifter]

I use both. For me it depends on the radius of the shelf on the bow I am shooting. If the shelf is fairly flat, then I use a rest and I get much better arrow flight. If a bow has a nice radius to the shelf, then I shoot off the shelf and use feather fletching of course.

[Scott J. Williams]

I shoot only off the shelf, I have a number of the older style bows that have a flat shelf.  I solve the problem by using pieces of leather to build the shelf up until I have created a radius, then it is covered by a piece of velcro pyle. The closer the arrow is to my hand, the better my shooting is.  However, if you prefer, you may check out 3Rivers archery. They have a lot of stick on rest, and feather rest like the ones used in the old days on those flat shelfed bows.....

[Kingstaken]

Shelf

[LCB]

I'm with Shape shifter. I have a few bows with flat shelfs and I use a "hoyt" style stick on rest. For bows that the shelf is built to shoot off, no rest. Funny what that little stick on rest can do for arrow performance.

[jkurtz7]

Hello,

I shot off the self for years but, I always had problems with arrow flight that way. I switched to elevated rests on all my bows and now I'm able to get good arrow flight with all but one.
Some bows just require the use of an elevated rest.
I have a Martin Mamba that just would not shoot off the self no matter what I tried. Once I put a rest on  it tamed the bad flight down a bit but, this bow still has issues with arrow flight. Not sure why with this one, I just can't seem to tune it.
If you use aluminum or carbon arrows with a tunable nock then you can get perfect flight off the elevated rests, even with vanes.

Jeremy

[Bird Dog]

There's a nice article in the latest issue of Traditional Bowhunter magazine--shelf vs. elevated rest. I shoot both ways--when the weathers bad it's nice to shoot vanes from an elevated rest.

[O.L. Adcock]

Good info guys, I haven't finished the TBM article yet but it's amazing how much better arrow flight you can get with an elevated rest. The simplicity of shooting off the shelf and odds that nothing will go wrong is appealing, but....When I first started playing with this distance shooting stuff, some classes require shooting off the shelf with wood arrows and others allow elevated rests and any arrow. The differences in distance between the classes was typically 100 yards+...To begin with I chalked it up to the arrows, typically carbon vs. wood. Out of curiosity I've shot carbons off the shelf and guess what?? They wouldn't go much if any further then the wood arrows! It's the elevated rests more so then the arrows. Off the machine testing we also seen 5-10% difference in the amount of shelf contact. Of course we didn't put 2 and 2 together and all the Mullaney tests were off the shelf.

Many will say this distance shooting stuff has no bearing on "hunting" bows...Oh yes it does....When we see 50-100 yards difference in distances from the same bows, those differences are gained or lost in the first 30 feet, not the last 200 yards. The differences we're talking is 35# bows with elevated rests being able to shoot as far as 50# bows off the shelf. That's a huge difference....O.L.

[NDTerminator]

Really great info from a unique perspective, O.L....

[Steve P]

Great information indeed. Though it probably will not get me to put an elevated rest on my longbow(s), it does give me some options to consider for my young son. Archery deer hunting is in his near future. When he can reach the poundage/yardage restrictions I am comfortable with for him, this could be an edge that might make a difference for him. Thank you for that helpful information. Will be watching for the article.

Steve

[O.L. Adcock]

Steve, Funny story.....Norb Mullaney who I think most know of, he's 80 something years old and inducted into the archery hall of fame...Anyway, he's been shooting longbows with elevated rests since the 1960's. At a shoot a few years ago, some youngster who didn't know who he was approached him and proceeds to tell him how that was all wrong, wouldn't work, and how "un-traditional" it was! LOL...O.L.

[O.L. Adcock]

I finished reading the TMB article and agree with it for the most part. Yes, at 3' a person isn't going to see much speed difference, it's at 30' plus, after any wiggle waggle settles down. I have no doubt elevated rests are more forgiving to our errors. I shot for years "instinctive" with an elevated rest, never saw any problem either way. His finger pointing and bow canting analogy...I don't know about anyone else, I can't "point" my left finger as accurately as I can my right, kind of cross eye dominant! LOL I'm not gapping but I still "see" that arrow and the eye has a natural tendency to line things up. An elevated rest wouldn't change that....O.L.

[TSP]

I prefer the shelf for its simplicity and I've never had much trouble with arrow flight, but I do think an elevated rest can give a flight and speed advantage which translates into an accuracy advantage at mid to long range (all else equal).  O.L.'s test results seem to bear this out.  

All the more reason why variables like elevated rests and arrow material (light carbon vs. hunting-weight woodies, for instance) deserve some consideration when setting up competitive classes at trad shoots.  Sometimes folks who set the rules don't want to believe it or simply won't admit it, but common sense and experience  say its true.

[NDTerminator]

Originally posted by O.L. Adcock:
I finished reading the TMB article and agree with it for the most part. Yes, at 3' a person isn't going to see much speed difference, it's at 30' plus, after any wiggle waggle settles down. I have no doubt elevated rests are more forgiving to our errors. I shot for years "instinctive" with an elevated rest, never saw any problem either way. His finger pointing and bow canting analogy...I don't know about anyone else, I can't "point" my left finger as accurately as I can my right, kind of cross eye dominant! LOL I'm not gapping but I still "see" that arrow and the eye has a natural tendency to line things up. An elevated rest wouldn't change that....O.L.

The finger/thumb pointing-canting analogy was somewhat lost on me, as well. My elevated rests are approx. 1/2" above the shelf where my thumb is 3" long. Sure, if the rest were 2.5" above my hand I would have a problem with a consistent sight picture in the memory bank, but this isn't realistic.  With the rest 1/2" above the shelf, I don't have any problem and do index off the knuckle of my pointer finger.  I shoot with a very slight cant...

[O.L. Adcock]

I vary my cant determined by the situation. I've found as long as my "eye" is over the arrow, the amount of cant makes no difference in the left/right shooting of the arrow nor does shelf vice elevated. The arrow goes where it's pointed even if the bow is upside down. If using a sight, the amount of cant would of course matter. Normally with only 0-30 degrees cant, my anchor is normal cormer of the mouth but as the cant exceeds that to 90 degrees, I find I "float" my anchor to keep the back of the arrow under the eye. At 90 degrees my anchor is up around my temple. I've done this so much for so many years it just comes natural. I practice shooting under lawn chairs!    There you are, BIG bull at 15 yards but your only clear shot is UNDER a blow down 18" high.........I'm ready!   ......O.L.

[Scott J. Williams]

I guess different strokes for different folks, O.L. is the man, but elevated rest just don't work well for me.  I need, want, and love that arrow being on the shelf.  I like a rather severe cant, and elevated rest don't work well.

[TaterHill Archer]

I was shooting today and getting very frustrated with my accuracy.  When I finished, I noticed some wear on the shelf material that wasn't there when I started.  I thought I had everything set up to get the minimum amount of interference possible.  I took off the velcro and put on a Neet Pro Rest.  My groups got tighter and my accuracy greatly improved.

I have shot with a rest some and off the shelf some.  Can't say one is more simple than the other.  Either way, they both just stick on.  Keep an extra in my bag just like I used to keep some extra velcro.