Aiming with a longbow?

[Savate]

So as I develop a consistent anchor and release, I haven't yet figured out a consistent AIMING strategy.  :(

Do you sight down the arrow?  But how do you do that without tilting and craning your neck?  

If so, do you close the off-eye (this is they way I've been pretty successful with rifles since I'm cross dominant).

Should I be thinking about using a peep sight?  Pins on my bow?

Is it obvious I'm a mess?  

[bowmofo]

I switched to left hand since I was Left eye Dominant so I can shoot with both eyes open,It  makes a big difference for me!

[capt eddie]

I am also cross eye dominant but you have to remember that in instintive shooting you are not supposed to look at the arrow.  Your bow hand and finger are pointing at the target. When you point at something with your bow finger you eyes do not come in play. I also shoot shotguns that sameway.  You always look at your target.  The pointing hand puts it on the target.  If you look at the target and arrow you lose concentration on the target.  Shoot at a candle at night in the pitch dark.  You will just be pointing at the candle. You will pattern alot better when you do not look at the bow or arrow.Which eye do you aim with when you throw a football at someone running down the feild???

[mike g]

I'm left eye dom and right handed....
I shot for years with my left eye closed and used a point on method....
    A couple of years ago I taught myself to keep both eyes open and shoot more instinctive....
   Now I can shoot left or right handed....

[McDave]

There are two main theories of aiming in traditional archery: instinctive and point-of-arrow.  You can try both types, and see which one you like the best.  Fred Asbell, in the book Instinctive Shooting, is one of the main proponents of the instinctive style, and Byron Ferguson, in the book Become the Arrow, is one of the main proponents of gap shooting, which uses the point of the arrow to aim.

While bow sights can be used on traditional bows, there are disadvantages, including not being able to cant the bow and not being allowed in many traditional archery competitions.  I would encourage you to try the instinctive method and the gap method and see if you feel comfortable with either of those before putting bow sights on a traditional bow.

If you decide you like the instinctive method, it requires shooting a lot of arrows at the distances you plan to use it.  Most of us shoot several times a week, if not every day.  If you like shooting a lot of arrows, if it helps relieve stress from work or whatever and you have a convenient place to do it, that's great.  If you find shooting a lot of arrows to be a chore, then you might want to use one of the point-of-arrow sighting methods.

[kahunter]

I'm just starting out myself with everything, but on "Masters of the Barebow 2" Larry Yien explains how he shoots cross-eye dominant.  He shoots what he calls "gap at bow", and squints the dominant left eye so the right eye can sight the gap over the arrow.

[Savate]

I love this place; you guys are awesome!  

In instinctive style shooting, are you just pointing the bowhand finger at the target and just internalizing a "sight picture" at a constant distance?

[BLACK WOLF]

Instinctive Aiming is learned through an increase in proprioceptive awareness and engraining the correct sight picture within the subconscious for a specific distance.

It is basically performed by feel without consciously using any reference points within the archer's sight picture to assist in aiming.

Ray  

[John 4]

With instinctive aiming your dominate eye plays a part that has "nothing" to with looking down the arrow shaft.
It's simply about hand eye coordination,point your finger at anything and it's your dominate eye doing most of the work,looking down arrows doesn't come into it.
It's not until you do shoot cross dominate that your arrow starts to become a referance you need.
True instinctive or subconcious aiming requires that you do shoot with your dominate eye.
If you actualy take any real notice of guys like Howard Hill that did shoot cross dominate,he didn't shoot instictive and others that claim instinctive will also admit they do see the arrow,,,but don't take any notice of it.
HaHaHa yeah sure,what a load of seprative BS!

[BLACK WOLF]

Whether an archer is cross eye dominant or not is NOT what determines if an archer can shoot Instinctively or not.

Eye dominance doesn't determine that.

Brain function is what determines whether an archer is shooting Instinctively or not.

Our minds are about 20% conscious and 80% subconscious. There is a huge untapped area between or ears that can be used to shoot a bow using the subconscious.

The mind can learn to adapt to just about any situation.

Being cross eye dominant may make it a little harder to learn but it will not prevent you from learning to aim Instinctively.

Ray  

[Orion]

Ferguson can gap shoot, but mostly he uses split vision.  There are subtle differences.  With gap shooting, one uses the point of the arrow like a sight, placing it on some point/object that will cause the arrow to hit where the shooter wants.  For exmple, the shooter might need to hold the point of the arrow 15 inches below the bulls eye at 20 yards to hit the bulls eye.  Once the point is known, it is repeatable on every shot at that distance.  

With indirect aiming, the shooter is aware of the orientation of the arrow in relation to the target in his/her peripheral vision, but does not make a conscious effort to use the arrow, or a gap between the arrow and the target to aim.  Rather, the subconscious, through multiple trial and error recognizes when the arrow is properly aligned and triggers the brain to release.  This is as close to instinctive as one can get.  Because the brain learns from every shot, the only truly instinctive shot an archer makes is the first one.  After that, it's learned behavior.  Split vision is also the method that Howare Hill used, though he could shoot point of aim as well when he wanted to.  Good luck.

[deadpool]

I myself dont even know my own aiming methoud, after  a few years of practice, I can get my arrows to hit what I'm looking at 80% of the time, just pure instinct

[Savate]

So just keep shooting and figure out what I was doing when the arrow hits where I want to?  Then try and repeat it?  Is that Instinctive Shooting or just Trial and Error (and frustrating)?  

[BLACK WOLF]

"So just keep shooting and figure out what I was doing when the arrow hits where I want to? Then try and repeat it? Is that Instinctive Shooting or just Trial and Error (and frustrating)?"

Most everything learned and mastered is based on trial and error. Trial and error occurs with all of the other forms of aiming....NOT just Instinctive aiming.

Instinctive aiming can be a lesson in frustration and fulfillment...but the man that perseveres and works hard will generally be the one to master it.

Ray  

[Scott J. Williams]

Black Wolf,

     I must agree with you,  I am right handed/left eye dominate.  I had shot for years right handed, and shot instinctive, as I continue to do.

     About ten years ago I switched to my left side to shoot off the same side as my master eye.  I shoot only slightly better, and my reason for staying was that it just felt more comfortable shooting left handed.  In fact it only took me about a week to make the transfer.

     If you are shooting instinctive you can shoot cross eyed dominate and shoot just fine. If you can't seem to do it, it is because you are using a reference, such as the arrow.

[laddy]

i am shooting a self bow lately that I can shoot left or right handed.  I am more aware of the arrow in my left hand form than my right.  I can shoot tighter groups left handed, but I can shoot flying targets right handed, not so good at the moving stuff with the left.  From that, I would have to say, if you want to shoot tight groups go for a slower shooting tempo, so your eyes can keep up with your hands.  "Bore a hole through it."  It will come to you shortly as long as your form is consistent and your eye is over the arrow.

[Savate]

I got my first real bullseye at about 10yds today.  I was able to get the rest of my clutch of 5 arrows in a group around 6" but wasn't able to replicate it again.

I noticed after about 30min of shooting my arrows starting flying off the targer completely.  Form detriorates (humbling with a 40# bow, and I'm a pretty stout guy).

[laddy]

The shot is not over until the follow through is complete.  Try going for a perfect follow through only.  
When you can do that without trying, then go back to aiming.

[BLACK WOLF]

Just as with any sport there needs to be some good ground work developed to act as your foundation.

And an archer's foundation should be their form.

All archers should strive to learn good form until it can be executed Instinctively...that way the majority of the archer's focus and concentration can than be placed primarily on aiming.

One of the best ways to do that is to work on a blank bale practicing at close distance or do as the Womens Olympic Gold Medalist did...shoot of a hill shooting into the sky for a year before she even started to work on aiming    

If you take the second route...it would be wise to use flu flus and have a few friends who didn't mind retrieving arrows for you    

Ray    

[laddy]

thanks for reminding of the sky shooting trick.  I did that a some years back to work on my release, because I found that if you shoot at the same target all the time a short draw release is inevitable, as your brain starts taking short cuts.  John Schulz told me to give up competition shooting.  i replaces all of my field points for blunts and hit the mowed alfalfa fields and woods.  One more thing shoot at the smallest thing you can imagine that you can see.  I keep working on that target thing, but I am better off if it is minor part of my practice.