elevated rest or off the shelf

[apachehusky]

I started shooting from an elevated rest when I got my first recurve 16 years ago. My shooting was very consistent,fast and I could shoot a variety of arrows with no problem. Also the speed was 5 to 9 fps more (no big deal). Know a few years ago I was hit with the "more traditional" way of shooting "off the shelf ". and in my experience it does not offer any advantage over the other, althought it falls short in some areas. Accuracy with the two methods is the same to be honest, I had harvest big game with both. Personally I'm going back to aluminum and the elevated rest type of shooting, but I would like to hear any related experience from others. I remember reading about a debate about this type of shooting between Paul Schafer and Fred Asbell, if anybody knows a link to that story let me know. Thanks.

[R H Clark]

The only reason I shoot off the shelf is to be legal in the 3-D matches I go to.

[Jerry Jeffer]

I would say it depends on how flat or curved your shelf is. You might want to consider building up your shelf just above the deepest part of the throat. This can be easily done and works similar to a rest. This way you need not worry about a rest and changing it out after it wears. With a correct nock point, you should have accurate shooting from a shelf.

[jcp161]

I just finished reading "Bush Pilot Bowman", a book by David Bickish. In the last chapter, he talks about how he sets up his bow. Here's a quote on this topic from the last chapter.

 "If you want lousy arrow flight for the rest of your natural life, off a rug is how to achieve it."

I could be wrong, but I don't think he's a fan of shooting off the shelf.

[Scott J. Williams]

I think much depends on several factors, most people who shoot a verticle bow seem perfer an elevated rest.

Most of the guys that I shoot with, who shoot a "gap" perfer an elevated rest, although I have meet a few who shoot a "gap" and shoot off the shelf.

I shoot off the shelf for several reasons, I cant my bow, I shoot instinctive,  I like the arrow as close to my hand as I can get it, and I don't want something on my bow that can be bent, broken, or moved by brush or anything else.

While I shot compounds for ten years, a waste of my time, I shot them only five years with sights.  I shot instinctive for three of those years with an elevated sight, and two years with a built up shelf that allowed me to shoot of the shelf of the compound.  There is not doubt in my mind that I shot better off the shelf.

One other statement that I have heard that is have found is not true, "shooting off an elevated rest will allow for a better tune than off the shelf.  Shelf shooting, with the proper tune will provide the archer with better arrow flight than that archers ability to use it.

[CJC]

shooting from an elevated rest will improve your arow flight.  it is a fact.  to many it is not trad enough, to them arrow flight should not matter anyway.

[John 4]

I think it depends very much on both the bow and the shooter.
Lots of bows do shoot very well off the shelf and there's a heap of good archers out there doing it,so there's really no argument in my book.
I shoot one of my recurves from a rest because that's what the bow was designed for,another one I shoot off the shelf and it's as accurate as the other.
There's some definate tuning requirements for shooting off the shelf,and the archer that just picks up a bow an thinks it's going to work without some real knowlage and input is in for some disapointment.
We only get out what we put in.

[Jack Aldridge]

While many good shooters shot 'off the shelf' my question would always be 'how much better would they shoot off an elevated rest?' I've done both (with several different bows)...I find the elevated rest much more competitive. The only disadvantage I have found is nocking an arrow while hunting and taking a few steps. With the arrow on the shelf your bow-hand fore-finger can steady the narrow. Not so on an elevated rest, which means you lose your shooting grip on the bow. (Yeah...I know...don't walk with a loaded arrow!) :-)

[Scott J. Williams]

CJC & Jack Aldridge,

I respectfully disagree.  First to address the comment by CJC, where he stated that elevated rest will improve arrow flight, and that it is not traditional enough, or that arrow flight is not important.

Plenty of traditional guys shoot elevated rest.  They were around when I started in the 60's.  I don't choose to shoot one, and I find that my tune is as good as any you can get off a rest.  

What have you based that comment on?  Is it just your experience, or have you done some research?
If your statement was true, where are there so many "Great" archers of all styles not using elevated rest.  Some of these guys make a living at what they do. I would think that if a rest would give them an edge they would use it.  

I have, I have known and shot with some of  best these guys. Their bows are well tuned regardless of how they were set up.  

I shot field archery for ten years, worked in a pro-shop where I was the archery tech. there I setup all types of bows, and at 53 years of age, been shooting seriously since I was 9 or 10.

I bareshaft my arrows at thirty yards, have done it farther.  My bare shafts fly better than a lot of guys feathered shafts.

Now I will agree that someone who has little experience  with arrow selection, understanding of FOC, arrow spine, characteristics between recurves, longbows, self bows can  get servicable results  with an elevated rest.

Having said that, tuning is tuning, it is not something you do in a few minutes, the more you do it, the better you get at it.  If you can't do it off the shelf, it is likely that the tune you get shooting off the rest won't be as good as you can get it.

What people forget is that just because the arrow gets to where you want it to go, unless it is flying to the spot in the most efficient way, it will not be flying at the optumium speed, or hitting with maxium force.  If these things are not happening, no matter where the darn thing hits, your arrow flight is not tuned. These things are of the utmost importance for hunting, I guess if you are just shooting foam, it won't matter.

I would suggest that a person should shoot an elevated rest because they want to shoot an elevated rest.  But to make some blanket statement, which is untrue, is not.  

Make no mistake, I don't shoot off the shelf because I think it makes me better than someone who chooses not to.  I have stated my reasons for my choice.

I would be a fool to continue to shoot off the shelf if it were better to do the other.  

Should I decide to shoot a gap, I assure you I will be shooting off an elevated rest. Until that time, make mine the shelf.  
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Mr. Aldridge, to address your question, a valid one I might add.  

If a shooter is shooting instinctive, they would generally have a  more difficult time, notice I said "Generally" with an elevated rest.  


The answer is very simple,  instinctive shooting is about pointing the bow hand.  

That is one of the reasons that most gap shooters, perfer the elevated rest. It gets the arrow up where it is easier to see. Most of the best "Gap shooters" shoot a verticle bow.

 The closer the arrow is to the hand, the better the pointing for an instinctive shooter.    

Another reason a person might perfer not to shoot an elevated rest would be the "cant" factor. I, like many traditional archers, shoot with a canted bow. The altered path of the arrow is much less affected when the arrow and the hand are close together.  

When you raise that arrow, and you cant,  it destroys that, in fact the more you cant, it in fact moves the arrow to the left or right, depending if you are left or right handed.  

I am speaking of instinctive shooters specificlly, but even for those who shoot other styles may fine that true.

I have now stepped off of my "Soap Box", I am awaiting comments from others.  After all, that is why I come here.

[Rod Jenkins]

Scott...I can get excellant arrow flight off the shelf and most of my shooting is off the shelf..BUT add in the plunger forgivness that most elevated rests also use and its simply not possibly to obtain as consistant arrow flight off the shelf....even when testing off my shooting machine, a rest/plunger combo show a real advantage at longer ranges...and as much as we would like to be...no one is as consistant as the shooting machine.

That being said..off the shelf does has some advantages, IMHO, with a hunting setup and really isn;t a disadvantage at closer ranges..assuming a shooter has consistant form.

[Jack Aldridge]

I shoot instinctively, and I never point my finger or cant the bow.
I guess that's why they put menus in restaurants!  
:-)

[Three Arrows]

Scott, when I picked up a recurve in the 80's it was a bear take-down with mag riser and plunger rest.  Accuracy and consistency was easy to achieve even with mismatched arrows.  I did not even know what spine was.  These days, bows come ready to shoot off the shelf not with rests.  It is harder to keep an arrow on a rest unless you use a flipper rest with an arrow holder.  Most decent shots can get good arrow flight without an elevated rest.  But it is always going to be compared just like that: almost as good as an elevated rest.  Hey, we like to slap the arrow on the shelf and forget about it falling off a thin wire or stack of feathers.  I shot instinctive for years off an elevated rest until someone came along and told me not to.  I also had a high anchor until someone came along and said it was not traditional.  To each his own way I guess.  I now shoot off the shelf because I don't like to have stuff on my bows that come off or move around when I climb trees.  I even fooled around with the idea of a whisker biscuit rest for my recurve!

[Scott J. Williams]

Thanks guys for setting the record straight.  Rest, elevated are not new.  Nor did I intend to say that instinctive shooting could not be done from an elevated rest.  

I guess I have not met a bow(recurve or longbow)that I could not tune off the shelf.  Even the flat shelf bows of the late 50's and 60's, could be made to shoot off the shelf with a small piece of leather or stick on feather rest, placed on the shelf to provide for the least contact.

I might want to add that there are a lot of second hand bows out there that are tillered to be shot differently.  Such as the 3 under tiller, but he new owner did not know it was tillered that way, but he wants to shoot the bow split finger, and the reverse.  All of these things will complicate the shelf tuning process, but not make it impossible.

Like you stated "Three Arrows" stated,  he shots of the shelf because it causes fewer problems in the woods.  Heck, if you look at the old longbows, there was no shelf, only a piece of wood sticking off the side,  I guess we would call it a rest?