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Author Topic: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting  (Read 6959 times)

Offline Martin Farrent

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #80 on: May 22, 2008, 05:07:00 PM »
Terry,

I think I left an unintentional loophole for disagreement in what I thought was a pretty uncontroversial statement - by assuming that people were looking for the method that came most naturally to them. So Ray pointed out that some people actually prefer the style they find hardest and most challenging. I suppose he's right. So I rephrased my original comment for good measure and 'cos it's late over here in Europe.  :)

Best,

Martin

Online Terry Green

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #81 on: May 22, 2008, 05:11:00 PM »
OK...uh...then....I agree with both of ya.  :D
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Offline BLACK WOLF

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #82 on: May 23, 2008, 01:01:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martin Farrent:
so we're all different, and nothing's actually harder for everyone, or easier for everyone. Hope you can agree with this because my brain's hurting a bit.     ;)  
I 100% agree   ;)    

 
Quote
So I'll revise my earlier statement to say this:  Personally, I like the options that come most naturally to me. And I generally find them, though usually after some experimenting with the alternatives. And after that, I don't bust a single neuron wondering whether they're challenging enough. I just work on using them and improving.

Best,

Martin [/QB]
Now that's what I'm talkin' about!   ;)  

I just disagree when someone makes a closed statement that there are no advantages or disadvantages with the different aiming techiniques under specific circumstances when there is evidence to prove otherwise....which is also saying that non are easier or harder. There are all the same...which is something I disagree with.

How can a good instructor accurately guide a student in choosing an aiming techinque based on the student's goals, if they believe all the aiming techinques are equal with no inherent advantages or disadvantages?

Do you think it would be wise to suggest that a student who wants to compete in FITA tournaments take up Instinctive Aiming?

I sure don't   ;)  

If someone wants to say that Instinctive aiming has been the easiest aiming techinque for THEM SPECIFICALLY to master, I don't have a problem with that. It's when they won't acknowledge that based on research the evidence proves that Instinctive Aiming for the majority in regards to quickly developing consistant accuracy...IS IN FACT...HARDER TO MASTER.

Ray   ;)

Offline stmpthmpr

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #83 on: May 23, 2008, 05:06:00 AM »
Life should be about the process. All we really have is this one particular moment in time. Nothin else exists... it's either over or hasnt happened yet.

I love the feel of a lively bow in my hand, the flight of the arrow, and hitting my mark. I get lost in it all. There is no place I feel more at peace in the moment than with my bow in the woods.

My opinion is that choosing an aiming system makes it all about the end result and takes away from the process. I practice because I love to shoot and so I do it alot. the more I shoot, the more my brain picks up on every little nuance and my shooting becomes increasingly instinctive. I dont have to think of ANYTHING aside from the spot I intend to hit. My mind and body does everything else for me.

Now this can be accomplished over time by aiming as well. But the mental process is still there. I believe it takes LONGER to become instinctively proficient using aiming techniques because there are more conscious mental processes that one must, through practice and over time, have move to a subconscious.

Who cares you say, as long as you getter done? Well, the joy of instinctive traditional bowhunting is in the experience of the bow becoming a natural extension of the man and facing an animal in his natural environment. Equals. The man has the benefit of intellect and reason, while the animal has the benefit of instinct and far superior senses.

The more technology we utilize and the more we look to increase the odds in our own favor, the less traditional is our experience.

I would encourage anyone who is beginning in trad archery to NOT stand in front of a target... to NOT aim... and to THINK as little as possible. Further, I recommend choosing a bow that is physically light enough that it can be carried all day long without even being aware that its in your hand, aside from the joy of it. I also recommend a bow that has a grip that fits the hand so perfectly that there are no noticeable pressure points. It should be an extension of you. A part of you. Ive never had a bow that I didnt have to carve at a bit to fit me perfectly.

I recommend that you resist the urge to shoot more than one arrow at any given target from the same distance. The more you change up the distances and positions and settings the better.

The first time I hunted the open tundra was a real eye opener. There is NOTHING to use as a point of reference. The brain is a wonderous thing. We dont realize how much it takes in. One day we were shooting our way across the tundra to reach a river. We were taking turns picking spots, usually these littel cotton ball things that sit atop little stems. At about the same time, we realized that we were shooting 60 and 80 yard shots and hitting what we were looking at. That wouldnt happen in the woods at home. Too many distractions for the brain to totally focus enough at those kinds of distances.

The point is that only by getting out in the woods and shooting with the distractions, do we force the brain to pick up all the points of reference and use our depth percetion to begin to develop the unconscious calculations the brain makes for us, instinctively. By putting the time in where I want to be anyway, it just becomes second nature. You look at a spot, draw, and hit it.

I just cant see shooting 6 arrows at a time at a twenty yard target for that tight group, and that readily translating into proficiency in the field.

Just my opinion. Sorry for the long rant.

Offline stmpthmpr

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #84 on: May 23, 2008, 05:10:00 AM »
Im talking bowhunting. The only competition I have any experience with is 3D shoots. And the majority of those have been set up at unknown distances. In those cases more often than not, we have trounced most compound sight shooters. Most, not all.

I know nothing of shooting for score. I guess that could go without saying huh? LOL!

Offline hawgslayer

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #85 on: May 23, 2008, 12:42:00 PM »
:wavey:
HAWGSLAYER

07 BOB LEE HUNTER 49#'S
09 MARTIN 48#'s
CVA ACCURA 50 CAL.
BL/STAINLESS
SEMPER FI

Keep your feathers dry and your nose in the wind and become the predator that we really are.

Offline BLACK WOLF

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #86 on: May 23, 2008, 01:21:00 PM »
Ray,

You're exactly right...that IS what Instinctive shooting basically is.

It's simple hand and eye coordination controlled through the subconscious with allot of conscious concentration placed on the target.

Ray   ;)

Offline laddy

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #87 on: May 23, 2008, 02:25:00 PM »
What ever we want to call it and what ever our brains and eyes tag onto for references, whether we consciously or unconsciously acknowledge these things it is still pretty much instinctive.  I am reminded of the fellow who shot three under and claimed he didn't see the arrow and tried to convince me that I would be a better shooter if I shot like him.   I was already a better shooter than him, I think the big one that we have not hit on is that if we shoot the same bow and same arrow for a long time our built electronics can fine tune our conditioned aiming, whatever we want to call it.  Personally, I do better if I stay away from big changes in arrow weights and sight window variations, like Grizzly sticks to cedars and longbow to recurves.

Offline TonyW

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #88 on: May 23, 2008, 02:55:00 PM »
I just went out back to shoot and started looking real hard at the tip of my arrow. Problem is, I don't want to hit the tip of my arrow.

So I just looked at the 4" chunk of styrafoam coffee cup that I pinned to the target with a twig, and that's where the tip of my arrow hit.

I couldn't do this in the womb, and it sure ain't as easy as plinking tin cans with a Daisy, but I thought that was the whole point of shooting a bow and arrow.

Isn't that what our dad's called it, shooting a bow and arrow?

Online Terry Green

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2008, 01:02:00 PM »
I've cleaned this one up, and am putting it back.  It was a good infomative thread worth keeping.
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Offline Junction hunter

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #90 on: June 02, 2008, 02:16:00 PM »
After reading this thread I've come to the conclusion that Instinctive shooting is about how you aim not how you draw or how long you hold at full draw.(?) I keep my eye on the point I want to hit from the beginning of my draw and even before I draw. When I reach full draw (anchor point)I am letting the arrow fly.
Stupid question: If I hold at full draw and still only look at the target is that still instinctive?

Offline Tom A

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #91 on: June 02, 2008, 03:27:00 PM »
Yes.

Offline BLACK WOLF

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #92 on: June 02, 2008, 05:27:00 PM »
Junction hunter,

Exactly! How you draw or how long you hold has more to do with your form than aiming...and as Tom A answered your question...I also agree.

What determines which aiming techinique an archer is using is primarily based on what the conscious mind is consciously aware of and focusing on while aiming.

Ray   ;)

Online Terry Green

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #93 on: June 02, 2008, 05:31:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BLACK WOLF:
Junction hunter,

Exactly! How you draw or how long you hold has more to do with your form than aiming...
I would use the word 'style' instead of 'form' in the above statement.  You can hold long or short and not have good form....or pre point or swing draw and still have bad form.
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Offline BLACK WOLF

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Re: Instinctive, or aiming for hunting
« Reply #94 on: June 02, 2008, 06:03:00 PM »
Yea...'style' would definitely apply and might be a little more appropriate but when target form is explained...that does often include stance, body position and type of draw...not just shoulder and arm alignment, IMO from I've researched.

As long as the meaning is conveyed...which was to explain how an archer's draw and hold at anchor really has little to do with their aiming techinique....it's all good   ;)  

I would also add...in some cases...the longer an archer does hold at anchor the more the mind is tempted to consciously use things within their vision to adjust their aim.

Ray        ;)

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