Bareshafts

[O.L. Adcock]

Or go up in point weight, way up! You don't know what you've got until you make them shoot weak. If you could use a thinner side plate, that would help. But a 55# bow set up to shoot 60# spine will be more forgiving then the same bow set up to shoot 70+..O.L.

[TomMcDonald]

Originally posted by O.L. Adcock:
Or go up in point weight, way up! You don't know what you've got until you make them shoot weak. If you could use a thinner side plate, that would help. But a 55# bow set up to shoot 60# spine will be more forgiving then the same bow set up to shoot 70+..O.L.

But they are shooting weak. So wouldn't a thicker side plate be the answer. Remember, lefty here.

[Don Stokes]

McDave, it's not at all unusual for a modern recurve bow to require wood shafts that are much higher in spine than the draw weight of the bow. The wood arrow scale is based on self bows, and a modern fiberglass-backed recurve puts out much more energy than a self bow of the same weight, and requires a much stronger arrow. My 60# hot recurve bare-shafts perfectly with 90# shafts.

[O.L. Adcock]

Tom, "But they are shooting weak. So wouldn't a thicker side plate be the answer. Remember, lefty here."

The indication is weak but like McDave said I suspect you are WAY over spined. That will show it's ugly head as being weak and efforts to corrct it, like cutting shafts will be to no avail. If you go down in point weight and things don't change, that's exactly what's happening. 90% of peoples tuning problems are from being overspined, seldom are they under....O.L.

[Widowbender]

In my opinion (and it ain't worth a whole lot) the amount of centershot a particular bow has is the primary reason it would require a stiffer/weaker shaft. You could build two bows with everything identical except the amount of centershot, whichever bow is cut closer to center is either gonna need a stiffer shaft or heaver point weight to get good flight.
Also the "rules" of bareshafting that deal with nock high, low, left, right works great until you get way out of whack, meaning that a shaft you though was too weak is really too stiff or you get nock high flight, but the nocking point was really too low. The old Easton Arrow Tuning handout summed it up that if what you tried didn't work, do the opposite. I NEVER cut off a bareshaft until I have verified it through changing point weight. Of course, the arrows I shoot have screw in points, though.


David

[va]

O.L. and company - thanks for all the info.

I shot bare and flethed out to 20-22 yds last night and ended up with a very tight (for me) group with bare and fletched all together.

Dennis - you make some real nice shafts.

Next I try some BHs

[TomMcDonald]

Well thanks everyone. OL, I'll let you know this afternoon how I go with more bareshafting with lighter points.

[TomMcDonald]

OK.
I have 155gr Tusker broadheads shooting very straight on 29 1/2 inch shafts.
What gives? They're neither high nor low, but tending ever so slightly to the right. I might lengthen a little.
what gives here? Should I go out with these shafts knowing they shoot straight but that I couldn't get them to shoot straight without fletching?

[O.L. Adcock]

Tom, What are you comparing them to? Fletched matched weight field tips? You keep using the term "straight". What are you talking about? Shaft angle? If so confusion is to be expected!   ....O.L.

[Old York]

"Should I go out with these shafts knowing they shoot straight  but that I couldn't get them to shoot straight without fletching ?"

Tom, are you bareshaft testing broadheads?

[TomMcDonald]

Originally posted by O.L. Adcock:
Tom, What are you comparing them to? Fletched matched weight field tips? You keep using the term "straight". What are you talking about? Shaft angle? If so confusion is to be expected!    ....O.L.

Shaft angle is what I'm talking about.
Yes, matched to similar weighted field tips of the same length shafts. out to 22 metres last night and they're hitting the little black spot and the shaft angle is straight.

[TomMcDonald]

Originally posted by Old York:
"Should I go out with these shafts knowing they shoot straight  but that I couldn't get them to shoot straight without fletching ?"

Tom, are you bareshaft testing broadheads?

Nup. I meant, should I go into the forest knowing that these shafts were indicating either extreme high or low spine when unfletched, but are showing good spine when fletched with broadheads? I still don't really understand.

[O.L. Adcock]

Lets back up....Looking at the angle the shafts flys through the air or sticks in a target is a poor method to determine tuning quality. The reason is 400 things besides tuning issues can cause it and attempting to "fix" it usually winds up with over spined shafts. shooting through paper is the same thing.

The "other" bare shaft method is called the planeing method has you shoot 2 or 3 bareshaft with 2 or 3 fletched shafts. Fletched shafts will always go close to where they are pointed whether tuned well or not while bare shafts or wide broadheads if poorly tuned will plane off somewhere eles. Where they group in relation to the fletched shafts tells you exactly whats wrong. It is completely independant of your "form" or other quirks giving you a reliable reading. Here is a link   www.bowmaker.net/tuning.htm

Bottom line is shaft angle will lie to you and make you attempt to correct things that may or may not be broken. The best shooters can not consistantly shoot an arrow "straight". It's a recipe for frustration....O.L.

[TomMcDonald]

OL, thanks I've looked at your tuning guide and its handy.
I'll go back with a fresh mind tonight and see what I can do.

[O.L. Adcock]

Tom, It's not "mine", it's been around for 30+ years, it just got bastardized with the kick method some where along the line.  Some feel they get good results from the "kick" method but as many threads as we see concerning it is a good indication of how poorly it works. Big thing is pick a method and don't mix the two cause one will contradict the other...O.L.

[TomMcDonald]

So you're saying that when I originally said that they were grouping with my fletched arrows but the nocks were right I was fine then? I tended to think I was fine too but got paranoid.
My broadheads are flying so well it's hard to think that I'm hugely uder or over spined.

[fleetus]

O.L.,

So now you've sorted out that the grouping of the shafts is the important issue and Tom has some properly spined shafts going forward. I wonder why his shafts were planing left consistently?  I've often wondered if the distance of side plate is built out from centershot could cause a bow to flip shafts excessively left or right.  Is this something good for Tom to tackle next?  Also, Could the diameter of the shaft in relation to centershot cause problems? (whether shooting skinny carbons or fat shafts)

[O.L. Adcock]

Fleetus, "I've often wondered if the distance of side plate is built out from centershot could cause a bow to flip shafts excessively left or right."

Changing the amount of centershot changes what spine will tune well. "Out" will like a lower spine and "In" more spine. Different spines, different shaft diameters, different lengths, different point weights, different centershot amounts all do the same thing.....O.L.