Should a newbie gap shoot?

[Soilarch]

I'm getting frustrated with trying to "cold-turkey" jump into instinctive shooting.  

Should I be learning gap shooting first?  I do know I want to say away from stringwalking...at least for not.


I really aggrevated because I usually shoot 4 arrows at a time.  About half the time I'll slap two shafts together.  But the other two liable to end up anywhere.  That's not the frustrating part...the frustrating part is that with compound I've gotten to where I can call my shot before the arrow hits the bag.  What I mean is I know WHEN I messed up, HOW I messed up, and WHAT I did or didn't do.  With the trad bow I have no clue.  The only thing I've picked up so far is that the bow (longbow) actually LIKES to be held...not cradled, and that I must be twice as focused.  If my eye strays anywhere before the arrow hits the bad the arrow will follow my eye...no madder how long I stared at the little spot.

[Lt. Dan]

I couldn't hit until I started to visualize the trajectory.  Gap shooters use the gap to set the launch angle.  I let the brain match the launch angle to my visualized trajectory.  It works for me.  Try everything and see what you like best.  I start to gap shoot at 30 yards and further.

[Terry Green]

Sir....you just got your 1st trad bow, you aren't going to shoot lights out in the 1st week no matter what aiming system you use.

A change in aiming methods is not going to amount to a hill of beans if your form is off.

This sport takes committment and much more than a week to learn and groove in.

I think you need more time shooting.

Have you viewed any of the form clips posted at the top of this forum?

Any way you can video yourself?

[Dozer]

There are people one this website that have been shooting for decades and they still MUST practice. Just pick an aiming method and stick with it.

[R H Clark]

I agree with Terry.IMHO as a newbie you should stay close to the bag,probably no farther than 10 yards for now and not worry too much about hitting your spot every time.You will have to work on your form untill you have it down before any aiming system will help.

The best thing would be to have someone watch you who knowes how to shoot.If you don't have anyone try to film yourself and try to see what you are doing different on your flyers.

The reason you are getting frustrated is that your set goal is wrong for now.You have made your goal shooting lights out every shot.Just change your goal and you will start doing much better.To start get close,just a few yards and pick a part of your form to work on for a goal.Don't worry about hitting a certin spot.For instance try to shoot 50 shots one day not droping your bow arm until you see your arrow in the bag.When you do that you will have reached a goal.Then pick another like making sure you have good back tension on every shot.Then another and so forth untill you have each part down.If you start making any mistake again like droping your arm, than go back to that one thing for a few days.

To be a great shot,you have to have all the parts of your form down so that when the shot comes all you are thinking about is aiming.It doesn't matter if you are gaping or just burning a hole on your spot.All the parts of your form must be automatic at this point.

[SHOOTO8S]

I agree....When I'm coaching a self-taught shooter, the first thing I tell them is....you don;t get better by trying to hit stuff, proper archery form has to come first! How you aim is the last step in becoming a good shot...much more important is the abilty to devote all your focus on aiming.

Excellant advice there, Randy!

[Terry Green]

Yeah...good stuff Randy and Rod.      

'You gotta learn the shot before you can learn to shoot.'

Read that again.

[Kevin Winkler]

I began shooting traditional this past Spring.
I think I am now just beginning to really get a grasp of instinctive shooting. It's definitively form first, aiming second. I have been shooting almost everyday since this spring and I can see lots of improvement. At first I did most of my shooting at 10yds then I moved it back to 15yds. Now I try to mix it up at varying distances.
Once you understand what shooting with back tension is? Your shooting will improve...or at least mine did. Just never stop pulling! I think I am using more of a split vision method, from what I read on the forum.

[Soilarch]

Thanks guys,


The fact that I'm not "aiming" worth a lick really isn't bothering me...it that fact that I can't "feel" anything different between the shot that lands perfect and the shot that lands 2 feet right.  So I'm getting scared I'm going to ingrain some bad stuff before I even get started so to speak.

The reasone I brought aiming into the question is because I thought it might help slow things down and let me get my mind off of my form.  Now, I know that sounds completely backwards, but coming from a world of sights I almost think keeping the "aiming" portion of the shot may help the form and 'rhythm'...hence the 'cold turkey' comparison. This might not make any sense to people who haven't come from the compound world.

I'll try to pester one of my roommates into filming me this afternoon or tomorrow.

Oh, and yes, I've watched most of the form videos on here.

[Terry Green]

I shot/hunted with compounds for over 20 years before I made the switch back.  You basically have to start over.....like going from a bait caster to a fly rod.

[R H Clark]

It may be hard for a while to figure out what you are doing wrong.That is where having an experienced shooter watch you will help.

When I first started,I went to the big 3D shoots and watched the top guys and asked questions when it seemed appropriate to do so.You don't want advice from someone that just thinks he can shoot.Folks like Rod have been very helpful answering questions and giving advice when I was just starting out.The point being,I was smart enough to get advice from folks who I knew could shoot.

If you are having problems with your release,a lighter weight bow will magnify the problems and may help you to feel better what a good release feels like.In general using a lighter weight bow to work on form should help.

I've known great shots that just blew a shot and didn't know why.Most of the time it was because they weren't shooting enough to keep all aspects of their form automatic and made some simple mistake.

The fun of this sport is the challenge and effort it takes to excell.If I wanted to be able to shoot perfect shots every time I would switch to a compound.

Hang in there my friend,you will get better.  

[Soilarch]

It's exactly why I'm leaving the compound...although I couldn't make "perfect" shots every time with it either.  My bow is actually on the heavy side for me.  I figure it's about 53# at my DL...I was scared when I first got it, thinking it had been a mistake, but it's already much much easier for me to shoot now. (Still over a 20# drop from my compound.)

I did video myself tonight.  I think you've got to have a moderator post videos though.  I learned a lot from the video and now have 3 very specific goals for tomorrow.

I do appreciate the help so far. I'm going to go to a bow shop here in town where I saw a guy shooting trad one time.  The guys knew and left him alone, spoke with respect about him, and mentioned he had won this or that at some time.

[Lt. Dan]

Mr. Clark, you tellin me I think I know how to shoot but don't?  Them's fightin words.  WOW!  The question was "Should a newbie gap shoot?"  

Soilarch, you want an aiming style?  Become the arrow like Byron does.  You want to get better and enjoy traditional archery?  Go learn the fundamentals from a certified instructor.  The dollars spent on lessons are worth every penny.  Or get the TradGang teaching disc.  Terry's clock on shoulder alignment is a perfect example.  I wish if I knew about that 3 years ago.  You have an opportunity to get it right before you grove any bad habits.  Save yourself alot of time you will.    

SERIOUSLY OFFENDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Soilarch]

Alright, do I need/have to buy both tradgang dvds or is the shooting form on the first DVD?

[Terry Green]

Dan...I don't think Mr Clark was directing anything at you....least I sure didn't read it that way.

Houston.....There is only one DVD....and then theres a deal if you buy 2.  Again, there's not a volume I and II, just one DVD.

Post here if you order one today, and I'll make sure it goes out today so maybe you'll have it by the weekend.

[R H Clark]

LT.Dan
I'm really sorry that you thought I was talking about you giving advice in this thread.That was not my intention at all.I thought the advice you gave was fine.

SERIOUSLY SURPRISED!!!!!!!!!!

I just remember that when I first started and anyone knew that I was a newby they tried to help.I think everyone was well intentioned but I was getting so much conflicting information that I didn't know what to do.I found out later at the range that some of thoes guys couldn't even shoot as well as me.Not trying to say I'm "GOOD",but I want to make sure that the guy I get to watch and coach knows more than me.

[Terry Green]

"I found out later at the range that some of thoes guys couldn't even shoot as well as me"

That's true Mr Clark and applies to the internet as well.  If anyone does a little home work they can see for themselves if folks giving advice have some background other than just running around the internet forums posting advise....most of which is parroting what they've heard others say.

NO IMPLICATION TO YOU DAN    

Houston...I got your video clip...good start...and I'll email ya later....if possible, I'd like to see an overhead view as well.

[Bradd]

First and foremost, get the notion out of your head that you were shooting 20lbs over the trad bow with the compound.  If you were shooting an 80lb compound and a 75% let-off, you would be only holding about 20lbs.

The ideas of going closer to the bag so that you learn to 'feel' the shot (shoot with eyes closed if possible) is a good one.

But you made one very important comment and asked a specific question.
1) You 'think' you are overbowed.  YES YOU ARE. AS Fred Bear put it (paraphrase).  "A new archer should pick a bow that they can hold comfortably at anchor for 10 seconds, and then pick one 5lbs heavier to grow into."  The right bow to learn proper form on is one that is lighter weight (most suggest 35-40lbs), where you can actually see and feel your mistakes at anchor...review before the shot.  Being over bowed can cause all kinds of form problems that are harder to correct than if you learned properly.

2) Your question was, "Should I learn Gap?"  YES>>YES>>>YES.  Even if you meld into 'instinctive' or Split-vision later on, you will have a solid foundation to always use when needed.

First and foremost though, get your bow/arrow tuned properly to eliminate bow/arrow blaming.  Read and watch everything you can and then get up close and personal with your target bag.  If you can afford it, and can find one in your area, get a coach!  

Learn the 3Cs of archery; Control,Consistency, Confidence.

[Lt. Dan]

I am so sorry Mr. Clark.  Thank you for the reply.