How do some of you reconcile a bent bow arm and Back Tension?

[GMMAT]

I'm trying to revamp a shot sequence that I've ingrained, improperly.  Luckily it's only been a sporadic 2 yrs of shooting.

In watching MBBIII, I've gone to (started yesterday) blank bail shooting to ingrain back tension into my release.  So far, so good.

I see many archers talk about NOT "locing out" (bone on bone contact) their bow arm.  My question is.....if you choose this path (bent bow arm), what are you using for resistance against your BT?  

I've had a big problem, of late and since I started shooting) with my flyers being related to windage.  If I can keep my bow hand mor ein a straight line with my intended target (by creating BT), I'm hoping to alleviate a LOT of said flyers (as they relate to windage).

Thoughts?

[Daddy Bear]

I do not agree that locking your arm out as being bone on bone support. If anything, it is not using natural bone support and adds muscle tension which concentrates bow recoil into the weakest points of the elbow and shoulder. For you to completely lock out your arm, you must add muscle tension to the weaker areas of the joints to maintain. When you remove this unnatural tension and allow your elbow to be relaxed with a natural slight bend, you will then be maximizing natural bone support and will be using your large muscle groups to full advantage while maintaing a natural point of aim. Most every discipline of marksmanship teaches to remove unnatural muscle tension, stress, and torque from your position and form. Most teach to use natural bone support and a natural point of aim.

There are a number of experts to include those with medical degrees who coach and advise Olympic shooters and teams that warn against locking out the elbow.

Best,
DB

[McDave]

Rick Welch's method includes a bent bow arm.  I've found that it increases my accuracy.  Other good archers use a straight bow arm.  YMMV, as they say.  Try both and use whichever one works the best for you.

Rod Jenkins, in MBB III, says what you should look for in your form when shooting at the blank bail is for your bow hand to recoil forward, rather than to the right or the left.  I think the reason Rick teaches the bent bow arm is to encourage this forward recoil of the bow hand.  He has found that a stiff bow arm often results in the bow hand recoiling to the left, and thus throwing the shot off to the left.

As far as back tension is concerned, I haven't found that the bent bow arm affects it one way or the other.  I have to start drawing with my back from the beginning of my draw to have good back tension.  I seem to be able to do that (or sometimes fail to do that) with the bent bow arm as well as with a straight bow arm.

[GMMAT]

As far as the term "locked".....maybe what I should have said was bon on bone contact.

Can you have that with a bent bow arm, though?  And...if it's possible, can you have a 100% repeatable draw length?

[WestTnMan]

I have a slight bend but I have to always be aware of contuning to push my bow arm at the target. If I start to try to just hold it on target, like with a locked elbow, then everything gets screwed up. When I push I do not usually have left or right misses.

[McDave]

I'm not sure I can answer your questions about bone-on-bone contact or 100% repeatable draw length.  All I can say is that the facts speak for themselves: there aren't many people who shoot the bow as well as Rick Welch, and he uses and teaches a bent bow arm.  There aren't many students that I'm aware of who go away from an archery class showing as much improvement as those of us who have attended his classes, which is why most of us shoot with a bent bow arm.

[GMMAT]

Are these examples of a bent bow arm or bone on bone contact?

Rod Jenkins
   

Yien
   

Pittsley
   

Kaarch
   

Niblock
   

Sturgiss
   

[TomMcDonald]

What happened to Sturgiss' muscles?

[GMMAT]

If you've seen the video.....you know they're still there....lol.

That photo is deceiving.

[Don Stokes]

GMMAT, when I have trouble with windage, it's usually because I didn't follow through and dropped my bow hand too quickly.

When Dan Quillian was coaching me, he said that maintaining the back tension was the hardest part of learning to shoot well. He also advocated a slightly bent bow arm, not locking it. His method was the push-pull technique for drawing, not locking the elbow, and pulling through the release to keep the back tension going. Works for me!

[Terry Green]

I think whether your bow arm is bent or straight is shouldn't effect back tension.  You should be able to achieve proper alignment and back tension either way.

[Tilzbow]

GMMAT,

My personal opinion on the "bone on bone contact" is that it can't exist in exact terms and the phrase can create confusion. This is more of a phrase to describe proper alignment which takes away as much of the need for muscle involvement as possible. If you look for Terry's form clock on this sight that will show you proper alignment or "bone on bone".

You will notice one thing in every picture you posted and that is the bow elbow is pointed out rather than down. I believe doing that and trying to relax your arm (and you bow hand) as much as you can while shooting is more important than worrying about whether you're locking your arm or not.

Try this without a bow in hand. Extend your bow arm by lifting it up from your side while keeping it relaxed. Now make sure your bow hand is in the same position as when you're shooting. Now relax your arm and notice the slightly bent elbow that results and the fact there's little muscle involvement. IMO that's what you're looking for. Now mess around with it a bit and straighten the arm and lock the elbow. Notice the muscle tension created? Now point the elbow down and notice how that changes your shoulder alignment?

[SHOOTO8S]

Anyone who's working on bowarm, a simple trick is to lean against a open door frame with the bowhand placed on an edge, much like a bow grip....now lean you weight onto the bowhand side, wait 20 minutes or so try a few different methods and once you tire its easy to find the strongest, most repeatable position  

Once you find your strongest bowarm position....KEEP leaning on the doorway, paying attension to the bow shoulder...by now you should be getting tired enough to be able to find a low, relaxed bow shoulder....once you find it there's no doubt it easier to maintain that position doe to requiring less effort.

Don't worry your wife probably ALREADY thinks your crazy and leaning against the door frame wont prompt any calls to have you checked out by professionals  

[cvarcher]

From the pictures it seems NiBlock is the only one with a straight bow arm. All the rest has a very subtle bend.