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Author Topic: Hand Positioning on Longbows  (Read 805 times)

Offline WestTnMan

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Hand Positioning on Longbows
« on: May 29, 2009, 12:56:00 PM »
I am new to the longbow and just got a Robertson Purist. I have been shooting a fair amount the last week and have noticed where I position my hand on the grip has a definate inpact on where I hit. Is this how longbows are or is it just me? I can hit consistantly IF I get my had on the grip the same way each time. I can almost feel where it should be while typing this but not imgrained in my memory that good yet. If I am doing something wrong I don't want to get bad habits ingrained. I shoot a Robertson recurve also and your hand automatically goes on the same each shot, no thought required on the recurve.
Gen 27:3 "Take your hunting gear, your quiver and bow, and go out into the field to hunt some game for me."

Offline ChuckC

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Re: Hand Positioning on Longbows
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2009, 03:56:00 PM »
That's how they are.  Many of the newer hybrids have a beefier handle with some sort of indicator notch,  like a recurve,  so you put your hand to the same place each time.  How you lever your hand (high wrist, low wrist,  a bit turned etc) will also impact your shooting,  so pick a spot, and a hold, and stick to it.  
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Offline shortstroke 91

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Re: Hand Positioning on Longbows
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2009, 04:01:00 PM »
I had the same problem with my Tomahawk. After I found how to hold it to shoot well I took my dremmel with the sanding drum attachment and made a thumb groove down the right side of the handle, I also shaped the left side to taper it off a little like a recurve handle. Not giving advice but it made all the difference in the world for me.
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Offline WestTnMan

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Re: Hand Positioning on Longbows
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2009, 05:17:00 PM »
Thanks. I will keep shooting it like I have then. I just need to get to where I can grab it a know by feel where my hand should be. I am finding out they are persnickety but fun to shoot. I had no idea that such a slight difference in hand position could make such a difference.
Gen 27:3 "Take your hunting gear, your quiver and bow, and go out into the field to hunt some game for me."

Offline James Wrenn

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Re: Hand Positioning on Longbows
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2009, 05:30:00 PM »
I like a leather wrap with stitching on mine.I can feel where my fingers need to be when I hold the bow.Acts like a locator to help keep things in the same place.
....Quality deer management means shooting them before they get tough....

Offline redfish

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Re: Hand Positioning on Longbows
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2009, 06:37:00 PM »
I like Byron Ferguson's idea of wrapping and shaping the handle with suede to obtain a good and consistent hand position.
I guess one advantage is that you can keep moving it around until you get it right, which you can't do if removing wood.
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Offline Jerry Jeffer

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Re: Hand Positioning on Longbows
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2009, 07:12:00 PM »
You didn't really mention what type of grip the bow has. I use what most call the suitcase grip with the last knuckle of my thumb lined up with the spine of the grip.
 
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Offline Daddy Bear

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Re: Hand Positioning on Longbows
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2009, 09:50:00 PM »
The suitcase hold is when you line up your thumb joint, not your thumb big knuckle.  Lining up your thumb big knuckle is something different, they are two completely different joints.

Offline Daddy Bear

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Re: Hand Positioning on Longbows
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2009, 10:03:00 PM »
Look at the inset with the picture showing the thumb joint along with the words written by Howard Hill. The alignment of the thumb joint is very important yet many do not even know where the thumb joint is located. I've read numerous posts where persons have mistaken the next joint along the thumb as being the thumb joint when it is not. Learning and understanding the importance of getting the heel down and aligning the bones in the wrist is a foundation to this grip.

     

Howard Hill had it figured out extremely well.

Grab a straight handle Hill bow exactly as Howard described in his book with the bow hanging from your side(pic). Experiment with the following:

First, Loosen the fingers in your grip and you will notice that the tip of the lower limb, pointed to the rear, will lower to the ground so that the bow is no longer parallel to the ground. With loose fingers, you will maintain good contact with the thumb and index finger around the top of the straight grip, but the lower part of the grip will pull away from the heel of your hand because the bow's center (balance point) is lower on the grip. Now, tighten the grip with your lower fingers and notice how the bow handle pulls up into the heel of your grip and the bow is now balanced and horizontal to the ground. Getting the bow into the heel of the hand is important as this centers your grip within the balance point of the bow. I'm of the opinion that some of the handshock felt and complained about is actually user enhanced (induced) as a result of NOT getting the heel down when shooting the straight grip. Without getting the heel down, you are choking your grip up above center causing the limbs to return out of time. This will greatly increase vibration felt throughout the grip.

Secondly, While holding the Hill bow by your side as described by Howard using the proper grip with the bow parallel to the ground:

Keep your bow hand against your pant seam with your elbow drawn tight into your side so that your arm is hanging straight down and the bow is perpendicular to your shoulders. Your bow arm is now straight with your elbow nearly locked. Your wrist will be rotated to the same position as when shooting the bow completely vertical without any cant. Notice how this straight arm position requires added muscle tension to maintain, it is unnatural. Now, relax you shouders and arm while keeping the thumb of your bow hand against your pant seam. You will notice that the elbow will pull away from your side and the knife edge side (bottom) of your bow hand will pull away from your pant seem. Your arm will naturally hang with a slight bend at the elbow and your wrist will rotate so that the tip of the top limb rotates inward and the tip of the lower limb rotates outward. Now, raise the bow to shoulder height directly in front of you and you'll notice that this natural arm position has a slight bend at the elbow with your wrist in a low/heel-down grip, and the bow will be naturally canted. This affords tension free bone support and will absorb the brunt of any bow recoil into the major muscle groups of the arm and shoulder. If your were to straighten the arm out into a locked position and rotate your wrist back straight and vertical, this would add muscle tension and would direct a good deal of any bow recoil into the weaker parts of the elbow. I'm of the opinion that such a straight arm hold is another cause of felt handshock and is a short-cut to pre-mature elbow/shoulder injuries when shooting a straight handle Hill bow.

A Hill bow will have some jump just from the pure fact that it is very light and nimble in the hand. But, using a good natural grip with a strong natural bow arm easily tames the biggest brute of a Hill bow into a smooth pussycat. This is when you will best appreciate the lightness of the bow as it will become an extension of your arm giving you that great feeling Hill bow fans often rave about.

Best, DB

Offline Jerry Jeffer

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Re: Hand Positioning on Longbows
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2009, 11:14:00 PM »
The joint you describe and the "big knuckle" are both on the spine of the grip.
I will give thanks to the LORD because of his righteousness and will sing praise to the name of the LORD Most High.

Offline Daddy Bear

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Re: Hand Positioning on Longbows
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2009, 08:20:00 AM »
Thumb joint will be directly out from the center of the belly of the bow. Same as you would grasp a suitcase, same as you would grasp a pistol. This allows for a natural wrist alignment when shooting a straight handle longbow. Rotating your wrist and hand to align the big thumb knuckle direclty out from the center of the belly of the bow will take the wrist out of natural alignment and would be a weak hold for a longbow and would be a poor grip for a pistol.

Not sure what you mean when describing a part of the bow as spine? But if refering to directly out from the belly of the bow, the thumb joint is correct for a Howard Hill/John Shulz taught suitcase grip. No matter how big or how small your hand, when grasping a straight handle, the thumb joint is key with this technique.

Best,
DB

Online rastaman

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Re: Hand Positioning on Longbows
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2009, 08:37:00 AM »
Thanks for the link...i never could shoot a straight gripped longbow consistantly.
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Offline WestTnMan

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Re: Hand Positioning on Longbows
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2009, 10:11:00 AM »
Thanks for the post Bear and everyone else, any and all advise welcome. I have been gripping in the joint like described but only did it because that is where it shot where I was looking. I have to be careful in this position to not hit my bow arm. It almost feels I am wrapping my hand to the inside but it sure shoots best holding it like that.  Sometimes it just grazes my forearm. Guess I will need to start wearing an arm guard! Always wondered why longbow guys always had one on. Never have needed it with my recurves. I have been using a fairly firm grip on it too. Is that OK? I have found I need to be a little more firm with it and not so loose as I have always shot. Progress is good so far if I can just keep from hitting the forearm every once in a while. I really like shooting the longbow. It is accurate, quiet and has a plesant little thump. I am beginning to see why people that start shooting them love them so much.
Gen 27:3 "Take your hunting gear, your quiver and bow, and go out into the field to hunt some game for me."

Offline McDave

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Re: Hand Positioning on Longbows
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2009, 01:05:00 PM »
I have never been able to shoot a longbow as well as I can shoot a recurve, and I think it is because of the grip.  When I shoot a recurve, I grip with my thumb and forefinger wrapped around the handle, and the other fingers off to the side.  This allows the cant of the bow to conform to the same angle my string hand is holding the string.

When I shoot a longbow, with all my fingers wrapped around the handle, I find that I tend to torque the string with my string hand, without intending to do so, and the arrows start flying all over the place.  If I hold the longbow with the same loose thumb and forefinger grip I use for my recurve, my accuracy improves, but not to the extent it probably would if I were holding the longbow correctly, assuming I could hold it that way without torqueing the string.

How do those of you who hold the longbow with the traditional longbow (suitcase) grip avoid torqueing the string when you draw the bow?
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