longbow grip and torque

[COLongbow]

Just switched over to a longbow from a recurve. At the range last night, about every 3-4 shots, the arrow was contacting the back corner of the shelf. I think i have the grip wrong and am twisting the bow clockwise and flipping the back of the arrow off the shelf upon release. Anybody else have difficulty like this with their longbow grip method?

[Terry Green]

That can be caused by a nock point that is too low as well.  Raise it an 8th and see what happens.

[COLongbow]

I had the guys in the shop do that right away, as we had that idea also. didn't change. Also don't think it's spine or it would be doing it every shot, I think. I'm pulling about 49# at my draw lenght and shooting 2016 30" aluminums with 125 grain points.

[McDave]

I also have more of a problem with torqueing a longbow than a recurve, because I put my full hand on the longbow, but hold the recurve with only my thumb and forefinger.  I have to hold the longbow in a loose enough grip so I can tell if I need to hold it more vertically or cant my string hand more in order to eliminate the torque, but it isn't as easy for me to feel the torque as it is when I'm shooting a recurve.

[COLongbow]

thanks for the replies, fellas! I'm finding that shooting a longbow is not quite as point and click as a recurve. However, I really love the smooth draw and whisper quiet of my new longbow. I'm sure with practice I'll get it. Darn, that practice is such a chore! LOL

[smoke1953]

I've gone through so many alterations of my form over the last 3 yrs but as Terry has always stressed is it always comes back to alignment.  With the longbow we're using low wrist and a full grip assuming you have the normal longbow handle.  My first mistake was too much emphasis on the heal of my hand to achieve that full grip.  This torqued the bow inward creating the slapping of the arrow against the bow and often contacting my armguard. After reading Asbell I moved my hand more around the side of the grip which better aligned hand and wrist reducing torque. This is somewhat uncomfortable at first because it does not feel as solid as the hand behind the handle.  Instead of putting the pressure on my palm I instead am now gripping more with the fingers that wrap around the grip also equalizing torque after the release. This takes more finger strength and I've been working through those aches. My shot consistency has been much better at present.

[Greg Skinner]

These grip discussions are always interesting.  I don't shoot a recurve because I don't like that style of grip.  On my straight grip Hills I like the fleshy part of my hand at the base of my thumb directly on the back of the handle where it takes all the force of the draw.  I use a loose grip in which the index finger hardly touches the handle at all. And yes, alignment is extremely important to keep the force of the pull directly in line with the forearm bone and through the shoulders.  Pushing with the bow hand through the shot insures no torque because the force is from directly behind the bow not from the side.  The pushing is part of the expansion and both forces are exactly 180 degrees from each other, hence, no torque.  When I do it right it feels as though I am just pushing the arrow into the center of the target.

[TSP]

I agree with Greg, it is very interesting to read what others find to be effective for holding/shooting their bows.  I shoot both longbows and recurves but use essentially the same grip with only minor adjustments based on how 'straight' or 'locator' the grip is.  My approach evolved from the Hill method...a firm from-the-side 'suitcase' hold using all fingers and the palm and a bent elbow..that started with my Hill bows.  Regardless of the bow design I always heel it to some degree (recurves less than longbows) and always with a firm grasp ('get ahold of it').  The important aspects for me to stay consistent are  1.) a firm grip, and 2.) pretensioning the string before drawing to 'set' the grip into the bow and establish good alignment between bow and draw hand.  I neither swing draw or straight-arm draw...it's about halfway between.  Whether a dished-grip Hill or a pistol grip Widow MA, this just plain works for me, even as many do almost the complete opposite (i.e., use a very light 'open fingers grip) to get their best results.  Ain't it odd.

Yep, there's never a shortage of interesting/perplexing things to ponder when shooting bows n' arrows.

[Ray]

TSP I believe in a firm grip also,it just seems logical to me.With a loose grip,at release the bow will move enough before the arrow  passes the shelf to upset the flight of the arrow.The only downside to a firmgrip with a longbow is you have to grip it the same every shot  or you will have flyers every other arrow.(like I was shooting last night LOL.)

[TSP]

I think it really depends on the shooter, Ray.  Many folks do better with a target-style grip... putting just the web of the hand into the bow with fingers extended away from the riser, or some variation.  I know some excellent shots that shoot hunting bows that way but in my case it doesn't work well...I need to control the bow more.  A firm palm grip is especially helpful when the shot angle, bow angle and 'situational difficulty' (leaning over in a tree or under a branch, etc.) are less perfect than a standard straight-on and straight up 3-D type shot.  Add a loaded bow quiver (weight to one side of the bow) and holding the bow as opposed to balancing it on the web of the hand makes sense to me...and it's proven more effective for hunting, in my experience.  That's the bottom line.  

Years back, when I shot recurves with more of a web hold, I had alot of problems with the string hitting my arm.  Another double benefit of the palm grip has been that except in very cold weather when heavy clothes are needed I don't even need to wear an armguard anymore, and the bow shoots quieter as well (the hand/arm acts more like a stabilizer).  As long as the string  is pre-tensioned to get good alignment from grip through the draw hand, and the release is clean, I've had zero problems with bow torque.

Whatever works for the individual, thats what makes the most sense.  Still. it's fun to see how others do their thing.

[Renaissance Man]

All good advise above, I would add this, being very light in physical weight and with that light weight spread over a longer length than a recurve, a longbow needs to have a conscience movement of your bow arm in a slight push to the target as you release to eliminate a natural tendency to torque the handle in one direction or the other depending on where your grip applies pressure.
That statement applies to recurves also but the longbow, until a form is developed needs that conscience push - pull

[SL]

I battled the longbow grips for a long time. Everything above seems to apply. The one thing that worked for me is I stopped fighting the bow. This sounds strange, but for me once I stopped trying to force the bow to conform to my grip preference I started to be consistent and accurate. I now let the bow settle into my hand and let the bow do its thing. Every grip seems to work for me now. Go figure.
SL

[Arrowhead80]

I shoot a loose grip open handed with a leather wrist sling.The handle settles to your hand the same every time and takes away the torque.I had a problem pulling shots with my bow hand but this eliminated it.John Dill makes straps for longbows,he is a sponsor here.Annewakkee Archery is his company.