Target Form/Hunting Form?

I see a lot of posts referring to hunting form vs. target form.  Can you please explain what folks are talking about when they make that statement?  I always figured archery form, was... well... um... just that-archery form.

[FerretWYO]

I am with you. Good form is good form.

Since I use the term, I will explain what I mean by it.  I used to shoot target bows, the draw gets above the target line, the anchor is low, the aim is long and the target had to be standing still.  Everything is static.
 When I was 15 years old, way back in the 60s I went pheasant hunting one cold snowy day with a farmer that made a bow out of a fence post.  We saw a large group of birds coming across stubble field.  He said "lets hide in the crick and wait them out."  the little creek had a beaver dam that kind of broke as we crossed it.  we went a few yards below it and crouched on the snowy ice because cover was low and the birds were running straight towards us.  the water from the beaver dam started running over the ice.  The old guy was crouching low on his knees trying to stay out of sight and the water was soaking is legs, he was laughing hysterically over his predicament.  When the first cock pheasant came running by he smoothly spread drew his fence post bow up flat from the below, swinging up and with the pheasant.  When he touched his cheek the arrow was gone and in the pheasant.  My introduction to hunting form.

[moebow]

I, too, agree!!!!! Form is form is form!!  Many "hunters" think that because they cannot usually get what they perceive to be "upright, formal target form" that it doesn't and can't apply to them.  The target form that so many think of is simply a two part thing.  The support structure (from the pelvis down) allows the power unit basically the arms and shoulders and activated by the back to get to the best alignment possible.  Once the shooter has that "feeling" of alignment and power at full draw and can achieve it every time, it then doesn't really matter what your support unit is doing.  Uneven ground, uphill, downhill or hanging by your toes doesn't matter because you know what the shot should feel like.

"Target form" will allow repeat shots to the same place most every time, but it is also the shortest way to get to the best form for a hunting shot.  For some reason, many that I work with think that the fastest way to be a good hunting shot is to go hunting.  A dedicated person CAN do that but almost invariably they will gain skill in the shot faster by learning the "target" form first and applying it to hunting than any other way.  Really no different than someone that wants to play the piano and play the Boogy Woogy waltz without ever learning the scales and where the correct keys are.

That was a neat story paven.  Help me here.  Your friend snapshot at a running bird...right?  What about his alignment?  Was he at full draw, etc. etc.  What went on with his form?

I was 15 years old and I had never seen anyone shoot so natural before.  We all were shooting with sights in those days, except him.  As far as all of the current form orthodoxy goes, I can tell you he was as low as he could get on his knees to stay out of sight, his bow was horizontal, he pulled the arrow to the blunt or close to it, he was smooth as silk and that was the first arrow I had seen him shoot. I do remember him aiming a little bit longer when was taking a 90 yard shot at a jack rabbit. He gave me a reel of a film with Howard Hill.  The one with the balloons at the beginning.  For years I went back and forth from what I saw on that to the form I used with my target bows, I finally decided to stop using the straight up bow sight thing altogether because our deer were not tolerating the conspicuous posture.  I had more luck on small game with the hunter style with my Bear takedown and nothing but misses and numerous missed opportunities with the static form with my takedown Black Widow with the sights for deer. I tried the compound thing for a year, but had the same results.   When I made that change I started to regularly get my deer and could not even remember the frustration I had before then.  Although the tight groups I shot at targets at those old FITA distances were a thing of the past.
I would say that hunting form is one where it is possible to use it in a fluid  state from a multiple of shooting postures even at moving game if practical.  I think the biggest thing is the draw and how the bow gets on target, rarely pointing then straight drawing and locking up at anchor for a long hold.

Thanks.  I'm a slow learner.  It sounds like your friend came to full draw, and assuming his arrows were cut to length, he must have been in alignment as well.  If he was accurate I'd guess he had good form.

[Stumpkiller]

I'd say further target form is a more "locked" form.  Legs in line with the target, knees lockes, bow vertical, back straight up.  Much more formal target address.

A hunting stance is knees bent, leaning forward, bow canted, much more adaptable to uneven terrain and accomidating a window through cover.

Sights require a target-type stance; at least as far as a vertical bow.  But when I shoot "on grass" or 3-D it is with a much more target-type stance (but with the bow canted) when I'm shooting for tight groups.  It is easier to be consistant (for me)

[Ben Maher]

For me ...
Target form ... good groups ...
Hunting form ... missing the target ! lol !!!

The only difference is my shots are quicker when hunting . Good form is good form .

Shooting low anchor FITA style is different all together IMO ... easier back tension at low anchor and the lower poundage make holding a lot easier. The basic fundamentals are the same though .. stance , draw , release, follow through ... the execution is slightly different and such techniques makes shooting from the difficult angles we encounter when hunting a heck of a lot harder .

[LongStick64]

Target Form - Form under controlled situations

Hunting Form - Target form modified to fit uncontrolled situations

I shoot at targets from different angles, positions, distances. "Trying" too duplicate a hunting situation. But I always strive to maintain solid form principles. Solid bow arm, solid anchor, full extension, draw with my back, hold after the shot. I don't let the sight picture dictate when I shoot, I determine that.

Originally posted by LongStick64:
Target Form - Form under controlled situations

Hunting Form - Target form modified to fit uncontrolled situations

I shoot at targets from different angles, positions, distances. "Trying" too duplicate a hunting situation. But I always strive to maintain solid form principles. Solid bow arm, solid anchor, full extension, draw with my back, hold after the shot. I don't let the sight picture dictate when I shoot, I determine that.

Excellent... and I would agree completely but, somehow I don't think that what these folks are saying.

[Terry Green]

To me....form is form....i.e. proper alignment.

However,...there are different STYLES.  Maybe that better fits the descriptions better...the word style....target style/hunting style.

Good form can and should be the foundation of any STYLE.

[BobCo 1965]

The question to me seems very general. I think my answer to your question might change depending on whether you mean for instance ( or maybe you meant something different completely then my examples):

Bowhunting Form (shooting at a live animal)vs. the Same equipment only shooting at Targets (ex stump shooting, roving, 3d)

Or Bowhunting Form vs. Competitive Barebow Target division Form

Or Bowhunting Form vs. Olympic Style Recurve Form

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by Terry Green:
To me....form is form....i.e. proper alignment.

However,...there are different STYLES.  Maybe that better fits the descriptions better...the word style....target style/hunting style.

Good form can and should be the foundation of any STYLE.

BINGO!  

[ksbowman]

Pavan, That was a great story. I loved every word. Could see the old guy getting wet and enjoying every minute of it!

[kawika b]

I understand the question but can't explain the answer I have in my head.      

Target form - Hunting form... both different means to the same end... getting our arrow to where we want it to go.

Different settings/surroundings play into using different forms or stances... different anchors for different styles/forms of aiming... techniques, styles and form may be different but the objectives remain the same.

Lord I just blurted out a bunch of thoughts and made a mess of a reply... but I think you can get what I'm saying... me hopes.

Some shooting techniques are more fluid than others, some shoot a very straight up static shot sequence, even if they are shooting instinctive.  While I have no doubts that a more static tempo would lend itself better to targets and standing game for many, I know for my hunting that at times the hardest part of shooting game, especially small game, is the shot timing. Often it requires the need for a fluid rather quick shot sequence.  More of a Howard Hill tempo and form is a hunting style that obviously has been proven to work in many hunting situations, while the bow sight on my old BW recurves and the static form that went with it, allowed a lot of deer to simply trot by unhindered and the safest place for a rabbit to be was in my vicinity, the one place they were safe from predators.