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Author Topic: Form improving but TP getting much worse  (Read 939 times)

Offline targets3D

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Form improving but TP getting much worse
« on: April 15, 2011, 11:20:00 AM »
After months for shooting, I am finally at a point where I can get somewhat of a repeatable form and anchor with arrow hitting where I am aiming - more or less (out to 20 yards). The problem now is I have developed a complete mental block after a few shots where I simply cannot hold anchor more than 1/2 a second. If I tell myself that I will not be shooting the arrow, then I am able to hold. In most cases I end up just loosing the arrow and hit the target (but this trick only works a few times before my brain catches on). I tried blind and blank bale at close range which I allows me to hold of a reasonable time, then I step to 10-15 yrds to shoot - first arrow usually works then it is downhill from there. I have several books that address TP and the suggestions are simply not working for me (e.g. button trick, push release and blind bale). Any suggestions, I shoot 3 under and one I anchor (index to eye tooth) and thumb knuckle under the jaw then I'm golden. But I progressively snap shoot to a point where I don't even reach full draw.

I know this topic has been addressed many times on this forum, but I am hoping some trick will work for me - I can't imagine continuing archery in this way, super frustrating after all this time and effort.
Thanks
K

Offline NJWoodsman

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2011, 11:35:00 AM »
I think you're on the right track with bale work and telling yourself you're not going to shoot the arrow.

Here's a couple more things to try: 1) "wall drill", face a wall (cinder block!), come to draw, maintain, then let down. 2) watch the arrow as you draw, not your target. Immerse in aiming only after you have reached anchor.

Two other questions, what draw weight are you shooting, and how much? Fatigue and/or being overbowed is a big contributor to this problem.

Offline targets3D

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2011, 01:40:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NJWoodsman:


Here's a couple more things to try: 1) "wall drill", face a wall (cinder block!), come to draw, maintain, then let down. 2) watch the arrow as you draw, not your target. Immerse in aiming only after you have reached anchor.

Two other questions, what draw weight are you shooting, and how much? Fatigue and/or being overbowed is a big contributor to this problem.
Thanks. I have tried the wall drill and certainly can let down. Problem is it does not translate to a proper anchor at target except for the first few shots (maybe I need to do more wall drills in the session (how many?). Watch the arrow drills allows me to hold longer but then aim after that is completely off for some reason.

My bow weight is 38#@26 DL. I am not saying this is "light" for me, but I can hold this for a good 10 seconds if I need to.
Thanks
K

Offline LongStick64

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2011, 06:43:00 AM »
You need to give it time when you do the watch the arrow drill. It will feel weird at first but you'll get it. Start up close so you don't have to move so much after you anchor to point to the target.
Next you need to work on focusing on your follow through, and to feel your back holding the weight. Feel that muscle just under your shoulder move back and develop a dynamic release.
Right now your mind is ready to shoot as soon as it gets the sight picture. You need to teach it that your not ready until you feel the anchor and the back tension working.
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Offline Cecil

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2011, 07:08:00 AM »
When you are stepping back to 10-15 yards. the first arrow that you dont shoot with a good anchor. go back to close bale. work on the anchor back tension and follow through.

Offline amazonjim

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2011, 07:55:00 AM »
get real close and close our eyes don't shoot with your eyes open and slow down. Shoot one arrow and wait or shoot only one arrow and then retrieve it.

Offline arrow flynn

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2011, 08:09:00 PM »
heres one i used step back 10 yrds then pull to anchor and let down step back to 20 then pull to anchor let down 30 yrds the same out to 40 then pull to anchor take a deep breath and let half way out and aim and release this is in to a bale you should be using a lighter bow i also would have a beer to help me relax a bit
Arrow_Flynn

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2011, 08:43:00 PM »
I wouldn't wish the darn stuff on anyone.  Your demon sounds very similar to mine.  It's probably going to take a lot of time.  If you can perform at the bale, rather than go back to 10 yards, go to 3 yards.  When you can perform there, go back to 4, and on and on. If you fail, move back to the bale and finish your session.  Good luck to you.

Online McDave

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2011, 10:22:00 PM »
It's a fairly common thing to happen to people after they have gained some proficiency and shot a few thousand arrows.  I have fought it off several times, then for a while I hold okay, then it creeps back in.

If you can hold for 1/2 second, you don't have it really bad.  Sometimes I get it so bad I can't come past 7/8 draw before my arrow cuts loose.

I think it's a mistake to give in to it.  Sort of like giving in to a dog.  When I get it, I do everything I can to get a 4 second hold (which is longer than I need).  If I have to, I'll draw the arrow with my eyes closed and hold at full draw for a count of 4, and then open my eyes.  Eventually, it goes away and I'm back to my 2 second hold, until the next time....
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Offline AkDan

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2011, 02:42:00 AM »
I also had tp....the blank bale worked for me...however I had to shoot the arrow.  That hold and let down routine didnt work.  Its like trying to reprogram a computer but only applying half the new programing. (ie the holding at full draw but not shooting the bow, the program never reachs gets all of the information it needs to fully operate)  It may work for you....your mileage may vary  ;) .

Get your concentration away from where its hitting for awhile...every day YOUR HOLE SESSION!   To work on form and form alone, one thing at a time.  I was told and prefer to do it eyes closed up close.  But whatever you feel comfortable with is fine.  Eyes close eliminates the NEED to 'see' what IS/ISNT going on..Ie arrow kicks, hits right, hand rotates, short draw, short hold whatever.....once you take it to the next level and start to feel your shot, you'll understand.  

It took me a long time of head beating to admit I had it, so you're on the right road.  And the desire to fix it is commendable to say the least!  Heck just admitting you have it alone is huge.  Keep plugging along and dont give up.  

Little story....  

The year was 98.  I had just shot my first Alaskan Dall ram the day prior and was on my way home when I noticed a very large interior grizzly feeding aimlessly on blueberries.  Well the stalk was on.   I reaked like sheep (which btw is a misnomer, reaking like sheep is bitter sweep as a bowhunter lol)....it was quite interesting to say the least.  I managed to sneak within 18 yards of, an again very large interior grizzly.  Fish and game in the area knew of the bear.  

The bear fed and stopped but knew something wasnt right and stood.  Imagine 9+ feet tall of mean big toothed large clawed carinvore with an attitude problem and you smell like mcdonalds frenchfries to a teenager on a friday night.  I had the wind so there was no chance he smelled me, a supersized dinner, and I hadnt moved in a little while either.   When he came down he went back to berry feeding....I found myself at full draw shaken beyond belief.  Auto pilot took over when the shot window came and honestly the moon should have been more scared! I dont remember drawing, but I remember seeing him hit a perfect opening leg forward, everything was right.....  its embarassing to say I missed....but looking back, thank the lord I did!   imagine a wounded large interior grizzly and now you get to track him...just because of TP.   I never found the arrow...I had to have shot a foot or more over his back and down the mountain side.

That was a changing moment for me.  the day after killing my first Alaskan ram, went from the ultimate high a bowhunter could have, to a bowhunting career ending low!  

dont let it take control of you.   Its a mental problem that needs to be fixed with a mental remedy.   No gizmo gadget or toy can do this.   Only time behind the bow practicing form and doing it right!  If you need something to tell you to fix it, it wont work.  If it does, it wont last when you take it off.  If you believe you can fix it..you will.  

Stop shooting for accuracy and start shooting for form for awhile.  Dont shoot for a short period and than expect your TP to be gone...it can take weeks, months or even years!   Obviously we love to hunt so you'll have to come to some kind of agreement with your TP adversary around this time of year if you cant whoop it before season.   That year I told myself I wasnt hunting if I didnt fix it....needless to say I put in extra effort to beat it.

When you stop fearing where the arrow is going to go....what your body is OR isnt doing...you'll beat it!   It's not a fear as much of some kind of concious recognition of something or lack their off. (accuracy for most, or in your case time at anchor..fill in the blank with your "disease", the out come is still the same).

Now I hold so dang long I almost went into a reverse TP...kinda like falling asleep scuba diving underwater.  Its so relaxing I just dont want to let go LOL!  I'm not worried where the arrow is or isnt going to go.  I feel pretty comfortable in my tuning and shooting ablities. That site picture at full draw is a snapshot of my life, why ruin it  ;)   ...and yes, I have fallen asleep scuba diving waiting for the next class to get in the water and on the platform.   Those were the days LOL.

There is no fast cure for this and likely you'll revert back to it from time to time.   It's going to be a constant game of cat and mouse.   The better you lick it now, the faster and hopefully easier you will lick it next time...or better yet keep it from happening all together!

Offline Terry Green

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2011, 09:37:00 AM »
Target panic is NOT snap shooting.

Snap shooting is a style....Target panic is a mental issue.  I've seen folks that hold at full draw for over 5 seconds have target panic.  Their release is somewhat scary.
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Offline 2Blade

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2011, 07:50:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Terry Green:
Target panic is NOT snap shooting.

Snap shooting is a style....Target panic is a mental issue.  I've seen folks that hold at full draw for over 5 seconds have target panic.  Their release is somewhat scary.
I agree just because you can reach full draw doesnt mean you DONT have TP. Its been my experence that either gap or sight shooters can reach full draw but cant hold on the bullseye to save their life. Its one of the reasons I still use a clicker, I CAN shooot without it ive done so for quite some time. However if I wanna have consistent back tension a consistent draw length and know that ill reach full draw everytime I shoot the clicker!
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Offline Mo0se

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2011, 10:07:00 AM »
Shoot a lighter bow for a while.
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Offline CLICKERMAN

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2011, 11:27:00 PM »
Please watch Masters of the Barebow Volume 4.  All of your questions will be answered.  It will be explained why your symptoms occur and you will be given a no nonsense, battle proven way of overcoming target panic.
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Offline Fritz

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2011, 09:53:00 AM »
Give a clicker a try.
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Offline njloco

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2011, 12:12:00 PM »
You could also try this, Jay Kidwell's book, I haven't read it myself but I understand that it does address some of these problems.
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Offline arrow flynn

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2011, 10:57:00 PM »
Walk away 10yards draw to anchor hold for 15zsecs.  Then 20 yyrdss etc let down 15sec hold each time out to 30 then back to 10 to try a normal shot feeling for perfect alighnment use a clickr zen archery as taught in Japan. The student spends the first yr just drawing and anchoring something to think about.
Arrow_Flynn

Offline arrow flynn

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2011, 12:24:00 AM »
Walk away 10yards draw to anchor hold for 15zsecs.  Then 20 yyrdss etc let down 15sec hold each time out to 30 then back to 10 to try a normal shot feeling for perfect alighnment use a clickr zen archery as taught in Japan. The student spends the first yr just drawing and anchoring something to think about.
Arrow_Flynn

Offline greyarcher1

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Re: Form improving but TP getting much worse
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2011, 05:09:00 AM »
I had TP few times after a`couple of years when starting to shoot in -90-91 when i shot whit a´Compound, i was competing a`lot and of course i felt the Pressure,I got rid of it by chancing Targets,after a`week of NO shotting at Al,so now for around 15 Years(only Trad Bows) i have not had it ONCE,Why??
Well!I don`t feel any Pressure(i only shoot for the Fun of it) and i don`t have any Doubts about my Shooting any More,and i shoot Total Instinctively whit A`long bow,and realizing that my only mental crouch is the Release and there for when i am getting into Trubbel i just concentrate on my Release,that really works for
 me!I will address this problem on one of my Films?se them at "Greyarcher1" on you tube-G
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