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Author Topic: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum  (Read 1173 times)

Offline Green

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Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« on: June 30, 2011, 07:52:00 PM »
Over the past 7 months I’ve gleaned a lot of great information from the Shooter’s Forum and I‘d really like to say thanks to everyone who has been so gracious to share their time and expertise here to help a whole lot of us to shoot better.  I’ve been shooting trad bows instinctively off/on for 42 years but only since discovering this site have I been able to see how far I had yet to go, and to use the info and experts here to make tremendous improvement through the selfless sharing of knowledge.

Here’s where I started when I picked my bows back up in November:

       

I emailed this link to Terry Green who I then had a phonecon with regarding everything from alignment to back tension to bow arm stability and who set me on the quest to better form and shooting.  Thanks Terry!

Over the next several months I tried a mix of Terry’s advice, rereading the form clock thread, reading tips, reading/watching the advice and critiques given here, completely changing my shooting form over the course of all this.  By June I was here:

       

Several folks helped me get to this point…..
Killdeer – who gave me a tip about a high elbow causing ring finger pain.  Thanks Killy!

USAFDad – who wrote a tip in a thread to cover my pinky with my thumb in my draw hand and eliminate one of the causes of plucking the string.  Thanks Jeff!

DBishop – who I shoot with regularly and who helped me with my bow arm stability among other things.  David it’s always great to shoot with you and Thanks!

Raging Water – who I shoot with several times a month and who shot this video.  Matt advised me to hold my shot for two seconds after release to check my finish position.  It was this advice that made me realize I needed some very serious critiquing and coaching.  Matt – you’re always a hoot to shoot with and just be around…Thanks!

Magnus – Over the last 7 months Matt and I have become close friends and arrow building buddies via Trad Gang.  Though we live 1100 miles apart Matt has become one of my closest friends and has helped me with a ton of stuff Trad related.  He also has a great eye to see what is and isn’t happening form-wise in a video clip of my shooting.  Can’t say Thanks enough buddy!

Dan Toelke - who taught me how much more accurate you can be by spining/cutting your arrows at least 1.5" past your draw length.

Bisch - who spent time on the phone with me trying to explain proper back tension after having gone through Rod Jenkins class this summer.  Also Kudo's to Rod for his videos and frequent postings in this forum.

At this point I was basically struggling with the same root problems I had always had, but with the help of these folks and many other things I’ve read in the Shooter’s forum, my shooting was getting better.  However, I was still just not understanding what good, consistent form felt like on my own.  

The time came when I realized if I was going to truly get the form/accuracy I wanted to instill the confidence necessary to return to bowhunting, I needed a coach.  Rod Jenkins came to mind, but he’d already made this years trip through Texas.  Well, for months I had been watching and trying to learn from Moebow’s youtube videos and his numerous postings here helping others.  I had learned a ton, but I realized that there were some basics in my form missing that really needed to be corrected.  There’s only so much you can learn by reading and trying……and not getting it right.  

I contacted Arne by PM and we began a friendship and mentorship that put me into the proper form finally.  Arne is a really detail oriented coach who knows the physiology, and just how to sequence your corrections and improvements.  We exchanged videos and emails intensively for 5 days and I can honestly say I never would have thought about the things he taught me, nor the way he taught them to me, but the end result is a much cleaner, more accurate, pain free, and easily repeatable form that really stepped up my accuracy.  Here is where he had me at the end of the first day:

       

       

What you can’t see in these videos is the rotational draw he was teaching me as a starting point to obtain the proper alignment and back tension.  His words describe this accurately….but more on that at the end.  Even though I didn’t have everything well in hand at this point, but I could really feel/see improvement  and we continued to correspond about all sorts of cause/effect relationships with my shooting results.  On day 4 I attended a 3D event and David Bishop took this video:

       

As you can see my form fell apart somewhat once I stepped off the practice range.  I’m not getting proper alignment nor full back tension as once I reached anchor instead of my elbow/shoulder continuing around towards my lower blade muscles, it was moving upwards.  I emailed these videos later in the day to Arne and he immediately knew the advice to give me to get the rotational draw to finish in the proper spot, with proper back tension and alignment.

With a few more days work and advice, I have been able to reach what for me is repeatable, accurate form:

       

Even though things look very mechanical at this point, and I’ve still got quite a ways to go with the “relax the ring finger” release he’s teaching me, I know as I groove this in over the next few weeks doing everything from close target work to 30 yard shooting to adapting to different positions and angles, Arne’s teaching and form will stay with me.  He has given me not only the tools to achieve very good accuracy, but to do what I was never able to do……feel and understand proper alignment and form, and diagnose what’s not right when things go astray.  Arne – I can’t thank you enough!

In an effort to help others as Arne and others have helped me, I have reorganized the PM’s and emails between Arne and myself into one chronological document for reference.  Arne has permitted me to share this coaching exchange with others.  If you’re a glutton for punishment, and you’d like to read how Arne walked me down this path to better form, and the understanding of it over the course of approximately a week please email me at [email protected]
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Offline magnus

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2011, 08:04:00 PM »
That's awesome Rob! Thanks for all the great info buddy. Now it's my turn!!! You'll get to analyze my shooting.
Keeping the Faith!
Matt
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Offline Terry Green

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2011, 08:10:00 PM »
:bigsmyl:     :bigsmyl:
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Offline moebow

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2011, 08:59:00 PM »
Wow!  More credit than is due

I thank you for the kind words!  I am just passing on the knowledge I've received from others.  My training in the BEST system is thanks to the USA Archery coach's training system.  All I've really done is to try to "translate" that "formal target archery" form to our (much preferred) traditional way of shooting.  The only way I was able to do that was by attending MANY of the top trad instructor's schools and comparing the systems.

My greatest joy in archery these days is to help someone(anyone) shoot better.  Very pleased to be assistance to any and all.

Thanks again Rob, and as Rod Jenkins says, "you can't shoot them too strong!"

Arne
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Offline Green

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2011, 07:53:00 AM »
Arne - you're too modest.  I'm grateful to be able to have tapped into all the years you've put in studying form and coaching.  Technology has been great in aiding the effort....Pm's, emails, shared youtube videos....and this website have all been a contributing factor in receiving excellent coaching from 1300 miles away.

Magnus - take some danged videos!      :thumbsup:
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Offline fmscan

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2011, 12:54:00 PM »
Rob, Nice job on the thread. I also have been helped by Arne. I just sent you a PM. Thank you. and Thank you Arne.

Offline RookieBwhunter

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2011, 05:00:00 AM »
PM sent! Great information and thank you for sharing. Looking forward to a gluttonous week (or more) of punishment.
"If you can find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere." -Frank Clark

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Offline Green

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2011, 07:02:00 AM »
No punishment with the shooting Thomas, it's the reading....lol.
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Offline Jeff Roark

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2011, 09:57:00 PM »
Nice shooting Rob! looks like a totally different person behind the bow. Keep up the good work.

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2011, 10:37:00 AM »
That's cool Rob! I was glad to try to pass on what I learned in the Jenkins school. I am no coach and am very bad at picking apart form flaws unless it is something very obvious. I too, am always wanting to improve my shooting (and I know there is definitely room for improvement). Please email me the stuff so I can read through it and see if there might be something I can pick up out of it. We need to get together at a shoot soon as it has been several months now.

See ya soon,

Bisch

Offline Green

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2011, 04:35:00 PM »
If you'd quit going to "more important" stuff like Africa, the beach, other shoots we could do just that...lol.  Email headin' your way tonight.
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Offline diehardhunter

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2011, 07:09:00 PM »
Another suggestion to improve this hunting season: Check out  http://www.scoutlookweather.com  to download their newest desktop weather widget.  This site was created for hunters by hunters.  It always helps to know the conditions before you hunt! Just in time for hunting season!

Offline dragonheart

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2011, 12:11:00 PM »
That Bisch guy needs to get away sometimes, you know go shoot big critters in Africa and such, it gives him a sense of mindfulness an serenity in this crazy world!     :laughing:
Longbows & Short Shots

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2011, 03:02:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by dragonheart:
That Bisch guy needs to get away sometimes, you know go shoot big critters in Africa and such, it gives him a sense of mindfulness an serenity in this crazy world!      :laughing:  
I like the way you think, Jeff!

Bisch

Offline Green

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2011, 09:55:00 AM »
Bisch's serenity is directionally proportional to his release.     :laughing:
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Offline dragonheart

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2011, 01:54:00 AM »
Judging from his pictures in the highlights section I think he is inching closer to Dalai lama status with each hunt.  

Green, if you are lucky you may be invited to "an audience" to shoot arrows in the office of his Holiness, "The Bisch".
Longbows & Short Shots

Offline Green

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2011, 03:06:00 AM »
Lol Jeff....he and I are headed down to Bastrop for a shoot early this mornin'.  Good times...hopefully good shooting, and tales of the African trip.  I can think of worse ways to spend my Sunday.
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Offline Green

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2011, 02:48:00 PM »
A word to the wise.  If you have Arne or any other qualified coach walk you through a complete form change DO NOT worry about where your arrows impact and/or retune either your bow or arrows until your form is completely changed and "grooved in"....about a month for me.  You'll be wasting your time until you have your form finalized.  Focus on the fact that they all hit in the same spot.....no matter where that spot happens to be.

Trying to adjust new form to make your arrows hit dead center is ruinous to form changes.  I'd have to say that this cost me the most time in trying to learn correct form.  I finally got to a point where I knew where full draw/full back tension was, and it was a point that also gave me the best release, but I kept trying to tune my form for arrow impact.      :banghead:
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Offline moebow

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Re: Acknowledging the help of folks in the Shooter's Forum
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2011, 03:10:00 PM »
All of you that are working form changes, LISTEN TO WHAT ROB JUST SAID!!!!!!  We (coaches) always tell folks to just use the target to catch arrows and to not try to hit anything.  If you read through the dialog that Rob and I had over that period of time, you will see at least two places where Rob shot at targets and it caused him to regress a little in his form development.

You MUST trust that the form changes will improve your shooting but don't "check to see" until after you have the form down.  I tell students all the time that if you will learn good form, hitting the target is the easy part.  We all want to "hit something" and only judge our progress but that measure.  A tendency that must be resisted!!

Good post Rob!!
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

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