What to do now?

[Nate Fikkert]

So for me the bow season in WI is pretty much over.  I may go out a time or two yet but I have had a great year and the freezer is full so it is doubtful that an arrow would be released.  I didn't have a great year as far as shooting at animals goes.  I recovered both that I shot but really only because I did the right thing after each shot and in the end everything worked out.  However I am not happy with my shooting.  In ten years of shooting trad I don't think I have ever shot worse.  I shot with a clicker this year and my practice sessions were ok, the hunting shots were bad.  SOO, with months to do before turkey season what do I do?  Stick with the Clicker?  Go to blind bale?  Not shoot for 2 months and try to forget the bad stuff?  I have the first two MBB videos...they are good but I know my issue is mostly mental.  Should I get the rest of MBB videos?  Should I try the Rick Welch stuff and try something different?  

For the sake of space I will stop there, I can give some more of my shooting history as that might help.  Basically I think I have very serious TP.  I can draw back and hold as long as I want, I just can't move up on target, once I do the arrow is gone. I have no control of the shot.

Please help, What to do now?

Nathan

[njloco]

I would start by posting a video from some different angles of your shooting here on Trad, and some of the more experienced archers could give you there opinions first hand.

It sounds like you have a problem but you don't have to live with it, as there is help out there. Blind bale can't hurt while your waiting to get this done, but most of all don't give up, it doesn't sound like your the type to do that but I figured I would throw that in there.

Good luck and I really hope that it works out for you.

[McDave]

If you've ever developed basic good form to start with, when you start shooting poorly, it's because you've changed something.  You're doing some little thing wrong that you're not aware of, and the reason you're not aware of it is because it somehow feels more natural for you to do whatever you're doing than it does to do it right.  You try to think about all the possible causes you can and try different things until you're blue in the face, but the single simple reason remains illusive.

Happily, there is an easy solution: a qualified instructor will immediately know what thing or things are keeping you from shooting well after seeing you shoot a few arrows.  Or, if it's something you only do occasionally, you may have to shoot enough arrows that it happens, just like an intermittent problem with a car.

There is no secret that is going to make it better.  Shooting Rick's way or Rod's way or using a clicker is not a permanent solution.  The only permanent solution is to develop good form (which Rick or Rod or a lot of other people can help you do) and then either learn to self-diagnose or live close to a qualified instructor.  Because as well as you may be shooting after attending a class, rest assured that something new will creep in to devil you before very long.

[Nate Fikkert]

I know what I am doing, I sharted shooting "instinctive" and really developed into a snap shooter bad.  It was fine at 15 yards or less but anything over that was bad.  I decided to try the gap shooting method to make myself settle in at anchor and on my spot.  Now I can't move up to my spot.  I can't understand how it is that simple but it is.  I can't move onto the spot.  When I have the clicker I stay on the spot all the way through the draw and release and it works ok in practice.  Pretty frustrating.

[njloco]

I'm just curious and I hope you don't mind me asking, do you use a deep grip on the string ( all the way  to the first crease in the finger from the tip, and do you shoot with a tab or a glove ?

[LongStick64]

Accepting the fact you have TP is step one, then forget about it and start to build on what you do well in your shot and don't focus on the negative.

Break your shot sequence down to the fine basics, stance, bow hand, string grip, pre draw, draw, anchor, back tension, shoulder rotation, constant pull. Notice I didn't say release. Don't. Get comfortable with every aspect of your shot, except aiming and release. When you feel like YOU are in control of the above, then work on acquiring your sight picture. Don't shoot. Keep building your confidence that you are in control, not the bow, the arrow or the target. Once you feel ready keep pulling till you release.

[Nate Fikkert]

I use a deep grip and a tab.  I must say I feel comfortable everywhere else except aiming and release.  So then what?  Just draw and hold for a couple of weeks before actually trying to shooot at something?  

Like I said I can draw and hold with good form quite confidently.  So that is what I am asking I guess, what next? 2 straight months of drawing and holding before trying to shoot at a spot?  

Also, I do not have the resources or the know how to film and post my shooting so that may not be an option for help.  I can't afford it but I am actually thinking about going down and go through a 2 day shooting clinic with Rick Welch.

Nathan

[McDave]

I'm sure you (anyone) would benefit from Rick's two day class. I dunno if he could cure your TP in two days or not. Why don 't you call Rick and ask him what he thinks?

[Green]

Originally posted by McDave:
If you've ever developed basic good form to start with, when you start shooting poorly, it's because you've changed something.  You're doing some little thing wrong that you're not aware of, and the reason you're not aware of it is because it somehow feels more natural for you to do whatever you're doing than it does to do it right.  You try to think about all the possible causes you can and try different things until you're blue in the face, but the single simple reason remains illusive.

Happily, there is an easy solution: a qualified instructor will immediately know what thing or things are keeping you from shooting well after seeing you shoot a few arrows.  Or, if it's something you only do occasionally, you may have to shoot enough arrows that it happens, just like an intermittent problem with a car.

There is no secret that is going to make it better.  Shooting Rick's way or Rod's way or using a clicker is not a permanent solution.  The only permanent solution is to develop good form (which Rick or Rod or a lot of other people can help you do) and then either learn to self-diagnose or live close to a qualified instructor.  Because as well as you may be shooting after attending a class, rest assured that something new will creep in to devil you before very long.

This is a Shooter's Forum Hall of Fame post right here.  Nicely put Dave.

[Nate Fikkert]

Ok, so after re-reading McDave's post maybe I never developed a good style to begin with?  Other than Rod or Rick how would I search for instructors that we closer to me?

Does anyone think I should ditch the clicker right now and try to work through this without it?

Nathan

[Green]

Contact Moebow via PM here. He lives in your area and if he's not close enough, he can probably direct you to another qualified instructor.

[McDave]

maybe I never developed a good style to begin with?

I don't know if you have or if you haven't, but other comments you have made seem to indicate that you've developed target panic.  Shooters at all levels, including some with excellent form and impressive records like Rod Jenkins have developed target panic and have had to work through it.  Others have never experienced it.

I don't know that anyone really understands it, but Jay Kidwell, the author of  Instinctive Archery Insights, has proposed the best explanation I've heard.  He also has a section in Masters of the Barebow 4 on this subject.

Solving target panic poses different challenges than learning good form.  People have been learning and teaching good archery form since back before recorded history, and while styles may differ, the approach to teaching and learning it is fairly routine and systematic.  OTOH, if you search target panic on this forum, you will find many ways of approaching the problem, some of which seem to work for some people some of the time, and not for others.  It may just be a coincidence that any methods for solving target panic work at all; it is a condition that seems to come and go and whatever you were trying that seemed to work may have just coincided with the time for it to go.

However, I would encourage you to get your form checked by someone who knows what they're doing, like MoeBow.  It is possible that a part of target panic is a lack of self-confidence brought on by having some unidentified form problem.  This is probably just another theory that doesn't hold water, but even if it doesn't, nobody could argue for doing whatever you can to improve your form.

My experience with target panic is that if you continue to focus on shooting with good form, and don't get discouraged, it will eventually go away.  Trying different things that have worked for other people can't hurt, since something that has worked for someone else might work for you as well.

[Ed Q]

I agree with McDave.  I think what you're describing is more a problem with target panic as opposed to a form problem if you say you can't move up on target.

And like McDave, I also recommend Dr. Jay Kidwell's book.  He devotes an entire chapter on target panic, and describes your specific problem as one of the two main target panic problems - not being able to move to the target.  The other is akin to snap shooting where you can't bring yourself to full draw and anchor and you release prematurely.

I'm not a psychologist, and I would be befuddling Dr. Kidwell's scientific explanation on the cause of target panic if I tried to describe it here, but from what I understand, it's a psychological issue.  Dr. Kidwell does a great job explaining it, and also offers exercise drills to help cure it, or at least keep it at bay.

[knobby]

Nate, p.m. sent.

[docmerrow]

Deff sounds like target panic to me.. stand at 5 yds and shoot with your eyes closed.. Do this for a few days.. Getting use to releasing the bow naturally again with out concern is what you need..

[frassettor]

Nate, whenever I have issues, I go back to the "basics". It has helped me in the past. We all have bad days, and it will pass. Just clear your head. I tried gap as well, and I just can't seem to do it, so I went back to the way I have always shot, instinctive. I read so much about form and proper alignment , which I agree with to a point. I just shoot how it's comfortable for me. God knows I'm not in any position to give you "expert" advice, I  can only tell you what works for me. I don't have perfect form, but it's consistent , and it what works for me. Give me a shout sometime, would love to shoot with you    

[LA Trapper]

Nate,

Do a search on Jay Kidwell and target panic here. He does a good job explaining it.  He also has a good book that describes it and how you practice.  Try looking here on the Shooters Forum first.

Jay from time to time used to pop on here and chat.

Just a suggestion that costs you nothing at this point.

Good luck.

[smoke1953]

I just finished Kidwells book Nate and it sure wouldn't hurt. Another solution would be to come to a shoot with me and I'll hassle you mercilessly while you try to concentrate. If you can make it through that we might be on our way.  

[10point]

http://www.n-sights.net/iai/target_panic.html
Here is the link to Jay Kidwell. I had the same problem ( could not move to the spot) and this helped alot. Follow his instructions and do not try shortcuts. Good Luck!