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Author Topic: Ouch??  (Read 1076 times)

Offline JMSmithy

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Ouch??
« on: August 15, 2012, 12:41:00 AM »
Been shooting all summer off and on between my 62" Widow and 52" Fedora...
 I'm right handed and cant the bow per GFAsbell theory...

I don't perceive any hand shock but I can't be sure?  Is it obvious if you feel it?  I seem to have developed quite a pain in my left ( bow hand )  elbow and not sure if I'm doing something wrong (eg torquing my bow hand) or what....

Appreciate any thoughts?

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Offline moebow

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2012, 08:28:00 AM »
JM,

Are you locking your bow arm elbow when you shoot??  If you are, try keeping your arm straight but don't let the elbow "lock."

Arne
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Online McDave

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2012, 12:43:00 PM »
Pain in your bow-hand elbow is a common sign of tennis elbow.  People usually tend to ignore it, because they believe that if they're going to have any problems, it should be in their drawing arm or shoulder.  However, it can occur commonly on either side.  On the bow-hand side, it results from hand shock transmitting itself through the elbow, which results in micro-tears in muscles and connective tissue around the elbow, which results in inflamation.  You can fight the inflamation with ibuprofin, but you're just masking the cause and probably making the underlying condition worse.  If you're not feeling any handshock, it's probably because you're just used to your bow.

Whether it's tennis elbow or not, it will probably get worse if you keep doing what you're doing.  Eventually, it could develop into a chronic condition like arthritis.  On the other hand, if the pain hasn't been around that long, you may just be stressed from too much shooting and it could go away if you lay off for a week or so.

You can search the internet and find out a lot more about tennis elbow, including exercises to rehab it.  If it's tennis elbow rather than just muscle fatigue, then laying off shooting without any rehab is not a good idea, as that leads to muscle atrophy, which makes reinjury more likely when you resume shooting.  Assuming it is the handshock that's causing the problem, you might be able to continue to draw the bow with a slightly bent bow arm and hold at anchor during the rehab process, without firing an arrow, which can maintain and even improve your archery strength.  Switching to a lower draw-weight, higher mass bow during the rehab process would be a good idea.

I've found that one of the best ways to rehab tennis elbow is to switch sides and shoot left-handed for a while.  This was confirmed by an orthopedic surgeon and a physical therapist, both of whom said they couldn't prescribe any better rehab than that.  It actually feels good on my tennis elbow when it flares up to shoot left-handed; you're using totally different muscles when you're pulling rather than pushing.  For a long while, I alternated days of shooting left and right handed, but then the tennis elbow seemed to go away and I switched back to just shooting right-handed, because I seem to gain accuracy when I don't switch back and forth.  Now I'm beginning to notice it creep back in and maybe I'll have to spend more time shooting left-handed again.

Tennis elbow can usually be cured, or at least managed, but it is a long-term process, taking up to a year, during which time you need to do things to make it better and avoid things that make it worse.  It doesn't mean you need to totally give up shooting the bow on your dominant side, but you do need to control your shooting so as not to make the condition worse.
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Offline JMSmithy

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2012, 04:20:00 PM »
Moe

Yes I do tend to lock my elbow when shooting....

Dave,

I have a weeklong bear hunt in Maine coming end of this month as a 13th gift to my son (and Dad    :saywhat:  

I know what you're saying.  I am shocked that shooting can cause this...I'm relatively new to Trad shooting (about 2.5-3 years now) but shooting archery over 32 years now and never had this issue....it really upsetting.  I do have a debilitating arthritis issue since 18 months old called Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis.  I already "adjust" everything I do to fit my pain and inflammation issues.  Ive never let a little pain stop me as I've got a business, a great wife and two terrific sons.  However the idea that this can come about from shooting just annoys the $-&3€>|#!!! Out of me !      :mad:   I'd hate like hell to have to curtail my shooting regime, though I will give it a try...

Shooting lefty kind of an intriguing idea as I've never done it before...I do have a BowTrainer which I use regularly.  I guess I'll also give it a try lefty as well....

Thanks for the thoughts guys....anything else you or any Trad Bros/Sis can think of, I'm all ears!

   :notworthy:
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Offline JMSmithy

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2012, 04:24:00 PM »
Moe,

How does locking my elbow lead to this issue?  I'm drawing both my trainer and bow on and off now I'm not sure I really "lock" my elbow as I do have it bent...I'm not shooting heavy weights either 48-50 lbs....
" If you don't stand for something, you stand for nothing " - Me
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Offline JMSmithy

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2012, 04:25:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JMSmithy:
Arne

I know this sounds ridiculous but I don't know!  I don't think I do as I do have a bend in my elbow a bit at full draw...

Dave,

I have a weeklong bear hunt in Maine coming end of this month as a 13th gift to my son (and Dad     :saywhat:    

I know what you're saying.  I am shocked that shooting can cause this...I'm relatively new to Trad shooting (about 2.5-3 years now) but shooting archery over 32 years now and never had this issue....it really upsetting.  I do have a debilitating arthritis issue since 18 months old called Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis.  I already "adjust" everything I do to fit my pain and inflammation issues.  Ive never let a little pain stop me as I've got a business, a great wife and two terrific sons.  However the idea that this can come about from shooting just annoys the $-&3€>|#!!! Out of me !       :mad:    I'd hate like hell to have to curtail my shooting regime, though I will give it a try...

Shooting lefty kind of an intriguing idea as I've never done it before...I do have a BowTrainer which I use regularly.  I guess I'll also give it a try lefty as well....

Thanks for the thoughts guys....anything else you or any Trad Bros/Sis can think of, I'm all ears!

    :notworthy:  
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Offline moebow

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2012, 05:22:00 PM »
JM,  Several posts that are a little confusing and I didn't see the ones you've quoted in bold above.

Anyway, We can "lock" several joints to provide the maximum strength that the bones, joints and muscles are capable of producing.  The knees and elbows being prime examples.  When we "lock" those joints, it is really nature's way of saying, "we are willing to sacrifice this joint for the effort of the job at hand."  There just is no more "give" in the joint.

I'd really have to see to say for sure since you mention a "bend" at full draw.  Only you can say for sure if the elbow is up against the "stops" but if it is, then when you release the "shock" from the bow hits the stops and there is NO cushion at all.  Now add that to the arthritis problems and you have a recipe for injury.

See what you can do to be sure that elbow is not locked and give it a good rest (Dr. visit?) to let the inflammation reduce.

Arne
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Offline JMSmithy

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2012, 05:46:00 PM »
Sorry Arne

Didn't quote anything. I had duke posted and tried to erase one and it came across as a quote!  Sorry

Since our other posts I went in yard and played a bit. I do not lock my elbow, it is straight, w slightly rolled shoulder knuckle but definitely not locked....
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Offline JMSmithy

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2012, 05:47:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JMSmithy:
Sorry Arne

Didn't quote anything. I had double posted and tried to erase one and it came across as a quote!  Sorry

Since our other posts I went in yard and played a bit. I do not lock my elbow, it is straight, w slightly rolled shoulder knuckle but definitely not locked....
" If you don't stand for something, you stand for nothing " - Me
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Offline moebow

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2012, 05:54:00 PM »
In that case, it sounds like the "R" is getting you a little (or a lot).  That becomes an area for your Dr. Hopefully some rest to recover and careful attention to it when you do shoot again will HELP.  But when dealing with a chronic condition, it may be a continuing problem.

McDave suggested Left hand, explore that as an option.  AND, the way C bows are set up these days ( parallel limbs) they will certainly reduce the stress on the elbow.  Just sayin'.

Arne
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4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline JMSmithy

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2012, 06:02:00 PM »
Weird, never happened before, just in last few weeks. In our experience can it be something that just comes on like that?

Really don't want to knock off shooting with hunting trip in two weeks....but I will take few days off.  Leave one of my bows handy so I can shoot at least 1/2 to dozen arrows daily...I'll lay off through weekend...use my bowmaster to keep muscle memory, both right and left hand...

But really Arne, C bows ?!?    :saywhat:
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Offline moebow

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2012, 06:19:00 PM »
"But really Arne, C bows ?!? [saywhat]"  

Well, just a suggestion to reduce stress on the elbow.  That said, I am not any kind of familiar with arthritus or it's symptoms.  It could be that you have just been shooting too much preparing for the hunt and have aggravated or inflamed your elbow and that it will pass.  Other "internet" Docs. always suggest Ibuprofin but I don't take that stuff either so don't know if it will work.  If your hunt is only two weeks away, you don't really have time to change to left or ANY other suggestion so Dr. evaluation and rest is what I'd GUESS is your route.

Arne
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Offline JMSmithy

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2012, 07:23:00 PM »
Arne

Thank you do much for your help ( here and on MANY other forums).

I have kicked up a bit in anticipation of this bear hunt end if this month.  Believe it or not, for my arthritis anyway, I take a number of anti-inflammatory meds and narcotic pain relievers but I also have had great luck with acupuncture.  I may schedule a session or two to see if it helps.  I've had great luck with it in the past.  

As for compounds, I totally agree, just a little ribbing based on the site we're on!    I actually owned a bow shop here in Jersey from 90-92.  We were typical "speed shop" catering to better, faster, high end bows at that time.  Proud to say that when the mechanicals started catching on, we chose not to carry them.  Didn't really do any Trad stuff, only by special order from our large manufacturers ( Hoyt, Bear, PSE).
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Offline moebow

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2012, 07:47:00 PM »
Hope it all works out OK for you!!!  Take it easy and shoot a nice one, Good luck.

Arne

PS.  I am and always have been a trad shooter but that said, I am also a "full service" coach so don't have the sensitivity some might have about "other styles.   :bigsmyl:
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4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline JMSmithy

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Re: Ouch??
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2012, 10:38:00 PM »
Arne

That's a great thing to know...I've read LOTS of your posts in various areas and have picked up a lot. I thank you for it...

Though I've "gone Trad" and haven't looked back in last 2+ years I've been shooting compounds for 30+ years and still like to play with my multitude of bows...I may not hunt with them any more but, hey, never say never    ;)
" If you don't stand for something, you stand for nothing " - Me
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