Increasing target distance past 30yds

[Scott Barr]

I have been practicing regularly for two years now.  I am pretty good at grouping arrows out to 30 yards.  When I go out to 35 or 40 yards, calling it a group would be generous. It just seems that I lose all confidence at the greater distances, hold longer, and have no feel for the target.  I shoot fairly instinctive at less than 30 yards and with less confidence at greater distance, switch to gap shooting.  Then I hold to long and my form vanishes.  I keep on expecting that practice will help at these distances.  But it does not seem to be the case.  I am hoping someone has a suggestion?

Thanks. Scott

[moebow]

Scott.

You are shooting farther than MANY if instinctive out to 30.  As you extend distance, EVERY little thing will be magnified as you are discovering.  More and more attention to detail becomes the requirement.  You say yourself that your confidence decreases and it is a fact that if you aren't confident, the results will not be there.

Just shooting more arrows will not help.  My suggestion is to REALLY reexamine your form and if necessary rebuild it.  The reason I zero in on form is that your bow and arrows have not changed and they do not know how far you are shooting.  Something is breaking down in your shot execution.

Video your self shooting at 15 yards when you are shooting well, then video again shooting at 40 (or wherever the breakdown occurs).  If the two videos do not show the exact same execution of the shot, you will at least know where and what the breakdown is.  Then you have something to work on.  Every time you practice, you should have a SPECIFIC plan on what to work on.  Be specific and work on only one thing.

Hard to be more specific without seeing your shots.  I will say that there is less difference between gap and instinctive than many would lead you to believe.  Re-examining your aiming style might also be an option.

Finally, are you familiar with what is called a "bridge" program?  You can find lots of information on it with a search I think.  The bridge is a plan to work on maintaining form as you work out in distance.  It can be extremely boring but if you are serious about increasing your range AND confidence -- it is the way to go.

Hope this gives you some help.

Arne

[Scott Barr]

Arne,

First, let me say that even without your response I am grateful as I have been reading your suggestions to others for some time and appreciate what I have learned and what you give to the Trad Gang community.  

Back to me:  love your suggestion about video at 15 and compare to video at 40.  Will do. No I have not heard about the "bridge program."  Now I have and yes I will do a search on it and read more.

Thanks Arne.

Scott

[Terry Green]

What 'kind' of target are you shooting at these longer distances?

[Xander]

On a related note, I don't have any archery specific experiance as I am just returning to the sport, but I do shoot 10M Air Pistol competively.  Once you get to longer distances you really need to understand the mental aspect of it.

If your happy with your results out to 30, then sounds as if things are well aligned.  So what's happening when you add 10 yards?  Its in your head. I suggest adding two paces more yardage at a time until you're comfortable, then add two more.  By changing only two paces you aren't adding a huge amount of distance to struggle with mentally.  Switch to a blank target so you aren't worried about shot placement, but if you are maintaining consistant form your grouping will stay where you want it.

I would often spend 40 minutes to an hour dry firing at a dot on the wall to get myself in the proper mental state before even shooting live fire.  Then I would shoot 100 rounds at a blank target not worrying about shot placement, just working on form.  Once I was ready to fire on target I could routinely shoot 117-120 7X out of 120 12X because I was not even thinking about my form, it was just there.

Remember, practice makes permanent.  Perfect practice makes perfect permanent.

[RETARMY06]

I feel your pain. I myself have noticed this when shooting longer distances: don't change your form! In other words, keep the same form, the same anchor,the same cant, the same everything that you would use at 10 or 15 yards. Just aim slightly higher, depending on the distance. Once you get the trajectory down, longer distances won't be so intimidating. At this point in my shooting, I have three distances. Keep in mind I use a 45# longbow with cedar arrows, but only pull about 40#.

Here are my three distances:

15 yards and under = cakewalk. Guaranteed no adjustments, every shot in the vitals. Aim center mass of the vitals.

20 yards = aim slightly higher, maybe at the spine area of a deer target. About six or eight inches high in other words.

25 yards = aim about a foot over the spine, or about 18 inches higher than normal.

25 yards is as far as I will ever shoot, period with my bow, under perfect conditions. Eventually I will move out to 30 or 35 yards, just for fun because shooting long distances is a blast, and makes close in shots that much easier.

[Todd Cook]

I'm a close range hunter, but I like to shoot long distances at targets. I've found that about 30 yards is the distance where I start to have trouble. Sometimes on long shots my form used to break down . All it was for me was lack of confidence, fear of missing, ect. So I put 6 haybales behind the target, and my form problems went away. I could focus on the shot and not worry about losing an arrow. Something to think about. Good luck.

[gonefishing600]

If your gap shooting past 30 yards you need to know your point on. For example my point on is 39 yards. So if your shooting past your point on, then the tip of your arrow will be above your point of aim. If your between your point on and 30 yards then the tip of your arrow will below your point of aim, and your gap will be somewhere between your your 30 yard gap and your point on.

Practicing at your point on will give you the confidence you need, because it gives you a reference point to start with, and you will eventually start hitting the target. Once you achieve that, then you can move up a yard or two, or move back a yard or two, and adjust your gap accordingly.

Also, learning to judge distance is a big part of it to.

Hope this helps.

[quail]

Building your confidence, aka mental aspect of the shot, is what often the more dificult task after you have your form ingrained. Longer targets are intimidating because you start questioning yourself. Find a field, with a back drop where you can shoot and not lose arrows. Set up a target at a LONG distance, maybe even farther than you would ever consider shooting (100 yards??) and just have fun. You will be surprised after a few dial in shots how accurate you can become. Do not pressure yourself, just let yourself experience the joy of watching an arrrow in flight over a long distance. Often after a few sessions of "playing" like this, 35 and 40 yard shots will seem like a chip shot.

[Terry Green]

Did somebody bushwack Scott?

[calgarychef]

Here in England they routinely shoot at 70 yards with trad gear.  It's intimidating the first few times but after awhile it gets better, once you've shot at far ranges a bit coming back to 30 or 40 yards seems a bit easier.  As has been pointed out its all about the little things at longer range and anything you do wrong is greatly magnified.

[solobowhunter]

[Scott Barr]

"Did somebody bushwack Scott?"

Terry, sorry.  After several days following up on early suggestions, did not realize that this thread had continued without me paying attention.  

So an update:  

Arne suggested reading about the Bridge Program.  Looked it up on the internet and have been applying its principles of executing tight groups at close range consistently before extending range.  I also started letting down more often when the shot was not developing and repeating the mantra of aim, aim, aim just before loosing an arrow.  As others suggested I added time to my bale shooting for form memory.  Following Arne's suggestion, I video'ed myself and found my bow hand jumping inward upon release. So I have been working on consistent back tension on my bow hand. It is a work in progress and I have improved.  Hey, if it was easy we'd all look as good as Arne and Terry.  

In response to Terry's other question: "What 'kind' of target are you shooting at these longer distances? "

I usually use any small object I find on the range that is bright in color, like a popped balloon that offers a small spot to shoot at.

For instinctive shooting practice I using a floating--blowing balloon.

Many thanks for all the suggestions. I continue to read, learn and practice.  

Dang this is an addictive sport!

Scott