Drawlenght going back

[Flying Dutchman]

I have the following problem. When I draw, I am at 30 inches. Then, when looking at the target and aiming, my drawlenght is going back between the 2 and sometimes even 4 inches.
I don't mention this, and my fingers stay in the corner of my mouth. So I think my back tension is falling away when aiming. I am not over bowed, shooting 47 lbs at 29 inches, which should be my normal draw lenght. It translates itself in my arrows hitting lower or higher.

Any methods to cure this?

[moebow]

Really hard to say much without seeing what is going on -- video.  Sounds like you may be just letting your back relax and everything collapses.  I find it difficult to visualize a 2 to 4 inch collapse that does not move the "fingers on the face."

Again without seeing, using a form master immediately comes to mind as an initial suggestion.

Arne

[Pete McMiller]

You may, as MoeBow suggests, be pulling with your arm instead of your back.  That could certainly be a cause.  If so, a session on a form master will shock you.  If you don't have one you can make one easy enough.  

The other thing that has really helped me is this video that MoeBow did on Rotational Draw    Using the techniques in this video has really helped me 'set' my back and shoulder in the proper orientation as well as getting the back of my string hand flattened out.  Improved my consistency a lot.

[Flying Dutchman]

I also have the feeling my back relaxes and everything collapses.
What is a form master?

Ok I googled it and found it. Let me think this over....

[moebow]

If you do a search for "form master" here in the shooter's form forum you will get lots of references.  Here is one to start with.

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=006225#000000

Arne

[Flying Dutchman]

Forgive my ignorance, I am just a uneducated Dutchman who tries to shoot his bow. How will the form master tell you you are doing something wrong???

[Pete McMiller]

If you go to the link that MoeBow indicated and then down that page to the McDave post, he has this link to a video     If you are not using proper back tension your elbow will come way forward upon release with the form master installed on the string.  It will be very evident if you are not using your back.  Using a form master is a real eye opener for many archers.

[moebow]

In one configuration of the Form Master, you can learn to draw the bow with your elbow rather than arm muscle.  This teaches you the "feel" of using the back and not the arm.  It also allows you to draw with a completely relaxed string forearm.  Both of these are steps to getting to full draw in a way that allows bone on bone support for the bow weight and not just raw muscle power.

In the second configuration, you can actually shoot an arrow with the Form master on and IF you have lost back tension at all, the bow will aggressively pull your string arm forward.  IF you have good bone on bone alignment AND back tension, the release of the arrow will result in NO string arm movement.

A good manual for it's use comes with the commercial version.

Arne

[Flying Dutchman]

This is great info! I think a form master is exactly what I need! Now I have to find a good link how to make one myself. On the link you gave me, the pics disappeared, but if will go on searching here.

[DaveV]

They're not hard to make.You don't have to be exactly the same with grommets and all. This pic was made out of a pair of kite strap handles. If you have some webbing laying around you can do the same.

     

[DaveV]

The reason for the second strap is so the elbow strap doesn't ride up to your shoulder. I loop the yellow one inside the purple one and it has the same effect as being grommeted together. The purple one goes past my elbow and the now shorter yellow one stays on my forearm just in front of the elbow. I just retie the square knot to adjust for length. No metal clamp required.

When on the bowstring and you're wearing the device the string should lay inside your hand, a little shorter than your normal finger grip. This allows for the tension to elongate the cord without it extending past your fingers. If you have it too long like I did at first it slaps the heck out of your string forearm.

[Flying Dutchman]

Okay,

I am doing already much better now. I took a look at the rotational draw video which is great. It confirmed I did not hold my back tension, so I collapsed. I took more attention the the string elbow when shooting and took care it went back, bringing my shoulders together and forming a straight alignment with my bow warm. After the shot, my string hand goes back touching with my stretched fingers the back of my head. This feels more natural to me then touching my shoulder. Touching my shoulder feels like I am going down from my alignment and touching the back if my head feels like following the alignment you already have, so a more natural movement.
For most shots I am on a steady 29 inch now.
I have someone I train with and he is watching if I don't go back with my draw. He told me I improved dramatically. But I must stay focused on my string elbow each shot. Bad habits come in very quickly, but it takes a long time to get rid of them...


Thanks for all the help, highly appreciated!

Ad